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Posted: 11/9/2003 2:25:56 PM EDT
Some of the posts here got me worried about my future 9mm. I am about to make the plunge with a RRA 9mm upper and Garrison block. I already have a Bushmaster lower with 9mm hammer. How much grief is expected? Am I throwing money into a jam-o-matic, FTF, FTE machine of death, or something that will be reliable enough to shoot at the range?
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:38:22 PM EDT
get a 9mm buffer. I took mine to the range friday. Doesn't shot HP's. I am using UZI mags. The first round will load(left side). When it loads the second (right side) it jams. I looked and the bullet takes a dive. Once I get the FTF problem(as explained below) worked out, I am gonna work on making it shoot HP's/ I have a FTF prob, but I am using a 223 buffer. I can fire the first shot, it will eject, load new BALL round, but hammer doesn't cock. My current testing setup RRA flat-top upper Bolt ramped by JOEBLACK PWA preban CAR lower (set up for 223) Garrison mag block. It will be 2 weeks before I get my RRA lower which is set up on 9MM
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 7:57:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 8:00:47 AM EDT by ilikelegs]
I would worry! I have a 9mm RRA. This gun sucked from the factory. Sent it back to them, they said it worked great with their 25 round mags. Got it back, still jammed all the time. Then sent it to a local gunsmith. He beveled the feed ramp. Still jammed. I have tried all kinds of things here with this gun. But now after over 1000 round forced through it, its has decided to work better. TRG had the same mags I have, some didn't work in his gun, tried them in mine and they worked. The mags that didn't work in mine worked in his. I have one 40 round mag that will bump fire with no problem. The rest I have to shoot one at a time. I have lost a lot of money on this junker. I am getting ready to buy a dedicated .22 upper and we will see how it goes. When the 9mm works, its a great gun. Mine stove pipes with really bad jams so its very frustrating. The last two times I have taken it out shooting it seems to be doing better. The gun is worth $850ish ? I have $1100 in mine now and am not happy about it. I have a conscience so I will never sell it to a fellow gun owner knowing the problems it has. So I am stuck with it.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 8:19:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/11/2003 3:18:14 PM EDT by SBR7_11]
I bought the Hy-Tech block.......... The mag dimension seating height is all pre-set to the block, no monkey with cutting mags hoping you have block set to correct height, or worry that mag notch is correct height. Plug and play for me, just had to open the block' well slightly to accept std IMI mags. Block was correct in funtion from the start (ejector position). EDIT-- I have some really STUPID spelling and sentence assembling most of the time.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 8:37:10 AM EDT
My KKF 9mm upper is finicky as well. It likes some magazines, hates others. I bought some brand NEW Uzi mags and it works with one of them, jams every round on the others. I have found that loading 35 rounds in the mags, max, gives me 95-98% reliability. Same reliability, IMHO, as my ARs. TRG
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 8:38:05 AM EDT
I've had my 9mm for around 6 months now... 1st time out:Stovepipes...Fixed by adjusting the ejector a bit 2nd time out:mag block riding up...Pinned block in from the front After that countless rounds and no problems what so ever...Mine will not feed Hollowpoints with Uzi Mags either...RunR,..Sounds like bolt bounce..Try the 9mm buffer and retest and let us know..........UNDERDOG
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 9:05:29 AM EDT
UD, I am waiting on Eagle arms to send me my new lower with the 9mm buffer. I will retest it then. I do beleive I can file the feed ramp and get it to load HPs. I am gonna contact Garrison and see if I can get another feed ramp so I can play with one and still have a untouched one. I think that once I change my buffer, my gun will run 100%.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 9:27:45 AM EDT
Originally Posted By DrugRunR: UD, I am waiting on Eagle arms to send me my new lower with the 9mm buffer. I will retest it then. I do beleive I can file the feed ramp and get it to load HPs. I am gonna contact Garrison and see if I can get another feed ramp so I can play with one and still have a untouched one. I think that once I change my buffer, my gun will run 100%.
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Why do you think the feed ramp affects its ability to use HPs? TRG
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 11:26:56 AM EDT
Because the round was jammed on the feedramp. What else would cause the problem? MAGS? I tried 2 uzi mags. That is all I got that fits this weapon. Now, you are gonna say I use a COLT mag it will feed HP's. The problem lies with the double column UZI mags. But I don't buy it. I beleive that I can make it work.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 11:32:29 AM EDT
Perhaps the trick is to buy used? I have a Colt 9mm upper and it has always worked 100%... I did buy it used however?
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 2:02:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DrugRunR: Because the round was jammed on the feedramp. What else would cause the problem?
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Stuck on the feedramp?
MAGS? I tried 2 uzi mags. That is all I got that fits this weapon.
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I have 8(?) Uzi mags, some work, some don't.
Now, you are gonna say I use a COLT mag it will feed HP's.
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No, actually I was just curious about your reliability issues. I have some as well, and I was hoping we could swap ideas.
The problem lies with the double column UZI mags. But I don't buy it. I beleive that I can make it work.
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Let me know if that helps. I had John at K2 look at mine. If I recall correctly, he and I discussed modifying my mag block. I still have rounds that will try to load at the wrong angle. The case gets smashed. TRG
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 2:14:16 PM EDT
If anyone wants to shoot a Tommy15 we'll be at the Hernando Sportsmans Club this Friday with tons of ammo... prototype #0003 has 4000 rounds fired without a single failure. If you're in Florida, and can get away Friday morning, come out to the range and run a 72 round drum thru one of the guns... guaranteed it won't fail a single time. [url]www.tommy15.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 2:33:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 2:45:28 PM EDT by joeblack]
Ground feed ramp in ASA adapter for JHP [img]http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/9mmmagwell.JPG[/img] Throated barrel for reliability and JHP [img]http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/9mmbarrelthroat.JPG[/img] Check head space, bend ejector in both planes so it almost rubs the bolt, bend extractor if needed. Worth the work, they are fun to shoot!!!! 6" Upper [img]http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/m16a19mm.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 2:49:58 PM EDT
Originally Posted By joeblack: Ground feed ramp in ASA adapter for JHP [url]http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/9mmmagwell.JPG[/url] Throated barrel for reliability and JHP [url]http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/9mmbarrelthroat.JPG[/url] Check head space, bend ejector in both planes so it almost rubs the bolt, bend extractor if needed. Worth the work, they are fun to shoot!!!! 6" Upper [url]http://users.zoominternet.net/~picplace/m16a19mm.jpg[/url]
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By opening up the throat/ramp, are you concerned about the support on the back to the case? Did you open the throat, then dremel the feed ramp or vice versa? Or just did both at the same time? TRG
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 3:11:59 PM EDT
I've shot about 4,500 rounds thru the 9mm upper now. I modified my FFL/SOT the exact same way. Never have had a issue with the cases. We shoot Special K 147gr, Wally mart 115gr, and Silver Bear 145gr. Ground the feed ramp first, then the throat as needed.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 7:59:21 AM EDT
Ah yes....a good topic. The answer.... it depends. [:D] My equipment: ASA upper and block (early) on a CAV 15 lower w/ a DPMS 223 parts kit using the factory 223 buffer. Issues I have encountered: mags (or you can say, mag blocks). I have noticed that some mags have the mag catch cut too low, which raise the mag into mag well. This, I have seen, allows the extracting round to hit one of the lips and knocks it out BEFORE the ejector gets to it. Other issues with mags are the body size (under sized or over sized). Mags I have seen are "loose" in the mag well adapter. Tight can be delt with easy, but a loose mag requires a "funky" fix. This is what I do to mags that are loose. Go to the hardware store (big one) and look for heating tape (aka furnace tape). NOT duct tape. This is a metal tape (aluminum or steel). What I did was make strips and put it on the mag to "shim" it to fit the block. I put it on the non mag catch side and front/back (depending which way it has to go). Does it look funny, yes. Does it make the mag work, some. And the tape is less then $5.00, so why not. Mags-type: I have- Uzi (and clone mags) notched to work w/ the 9mm (hit and miss). As said, location of notch and body size are the main issues. Also cheap USA Colt/Uzi mags (made one to work actually!!! And well). Amazing? Not really. [b]Curved Madsen 9mm mags modified to work. The ones I have encountered work well, as their mag catch location is IDEAL.[/b] The only issue is, the bottom of the mag block has to be curved/recessed a little to allow the curve of the mag to fit. If I had to notch any uzi mag, I would have a smith use the location of the Madsen notched mag as a template (for my 9mm at least). South African Double Stack, Single Feed (looks like Sten). The work great. BUT, I have encoutered some that were undersized and required the furnace tape shimming. But they work great now (and don't drop out). Ammo: I have shot FMJ out of it using most, if not all of my mags. They fed fine. Nose diving mag usually indicate a weak mag spring. Hollowpoints, some mags feed better then the rest. The South African double stack, single feed (DSSF) feed much better w/ hollow points then the traditional double stack, double feed (DSDF) mags. A Hollow point that looks like a FMJ nose will feed more then something w/ a huge hole. Mods to gun: Mine-none. Bolt is stock, feed ramp and throat are factory. I just dinked w/ the mags. Conclusion: It all comes down to the mag block and mags. I have heard that some mag blocks are tight while others are loose. Loose mags can be shimmed up w/ that heating tape. And those mags make great range guns. Heck, maybe I'll post a pic of my fix (as I do have a dig. camera now).
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 3:28:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/12/2003 2:14:49 PM EDT by SBR7_11]
Originally Posted By DrugRunR: Now, you are gonna say I use a COLT mag it will feed HP's. The problem lies with the double column UZI mags.
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[blue] Most Colt mags are documented in the wrapper to feed "ball" ammo, HP ammo-- you're on your own. As to the Uzi double column statement, my IMI "B" in 9mm has ate all the hollow point ammo I have fed it over the years, so mags are not the issue, it's the flat ramp and angle of the rails on the ramp, the travel from mag to chamber on AR is slight longer than Uzi also.[/blue]
But I don't buy it. I beleive that I can make it work.
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[blue] Good attitude, think positive.[/blue]
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 12:16:38 AM EDT
I have a factory Colt blue label 9mm using factory 32 and 20 rd mags, as well as aftermarket 20(Uzi), 30 and 40 rd mags. Thus far, I have NOT had any problems with feeding any type of ammo. This weapon seems to eat anything I feed it.
Link Posted: 11/12/2003 2:03:26 PM EDT
I've got a Colt upper on an Oly lower..never a hiccup...In fact I've got 7,000+ rounds thru the barrel and have yet to clean it..(the barrel)...I clean the bolt and receivers... The only good advice I can give you is be careful of the mags you use...they can be a source of problems...I had some converted UZI mags that drove me nuts...and others that worked perfectly...could never find a difference in them...
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 11:19:43 AM EDT
I've got a preban OLY upper and it shoots Wolf all day long. [:P]
Link Posted: 11/17/2003 7:05:50 AM EDT
Bushmaster Lower, Oly Upper, Socom Block, Sten Mags, 1000+ rds never a problem. Good to go from the get go!
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