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Posted: 11/4/2003 3:48:56 PM EDT
i would like to know which is the best subsonic 9mm ammo out there...some says its the Ranger T series...some says its the Blackhills......i would really prefer the FMJ...who has the best deal btw :->

thanks
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 4:16:05 PM EDT
Roll your own!!!! You get a 2 for 1 pricing if you load it. Alabama Ammo (Special-K), Maine Cartridge, Georgia Precision, will typically cost you $150-170 + shipping, I can load my own for about $70-80 per 1000 over the course of a couple evening, not breaking a leg about it.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 4:27:25 PM EDT
I load my own as well. TitGroup powder only uses about 4.5 grains of powder under a hardcast "copperized" bullet from National Bullet and you are in business. Bob I have heard good things about Special K.
Link Posted: 11/4/2003 5:09:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/4/2003 5:11:48 PM EDT by paltik]
what about the police/military? what subsonic ammo brand are they using for their smgs? and also where i can buy IMI 158 grs. 9mm FMJ? is it available to civilians? thanks
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 1:05:27 AM EDT
Aim Surplus has Spanish Santa Barbara 148 grain flat point berdan primed 9mm in their latest sale ad for $100 per 1000.
Link Posted: 11/8/2003 1:12:02 AM EDT
I love that Sampson 158gr ammo but I haven’t seen that stuff for a long time now. I figure I’ll just have to get set up to roll my own too. I’d like to find a good 147gr RN, any recommendations? -J
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 9:30:08 PM EDT
i also came across some articles stating that 158grs. are too hot for mp5's...maybe the israelis designed their 158 to their UZIs only :-> maybe ill stick to my 147 lawman/speer stuffs.....thanks
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 11:36:04 PM EDT
if you can shoot hirtenburger in a MP5 then nothing is to hot for it
Link Posted: 11/13/2003 4:19:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/13/2003 4:23:21 AM EDT by Acheron]
...if you can shoot hirtenburger in a MP5 then nothing is to hot for it...
View Quote
Not true: The US Navy's Crane Weapons Lab found a distinct increase in Failures to Extract with MP5s using bullet weights over 147 grains. The problem is how steep the pressure curve of the 158 Grain loading is: Broken Locking Roller retainers are the most common result, as well as a marked increase in casehead diameter after a single firing. Part of the vulnerability has to do with the Fluted chamber of the MP5, as well. It's not how "hot" the ammunition is, it's how [i]fast[/i] it gets hot. IIRC, I saw some pictures of a version of the MP5 made for some French Special Forces designed to shoot some ultra hot 9mm Loadings: the locking block retainer was completely redesigned along with the bolt head. The text that accompanied the photos didn't specify what ammunition was being used exactly, but it wouldn't surprise me if it wasn't some sort of +P+ heavy bullet round. For Open Bolt or Straight Blowback weapons the 158 Grain IMI ammunition should be OK, but for locked-breech Pistols and MP5 SMG's I would avoid using the 158 Samson ammunition. Of course, there are always exceptions: A friend's Sterling Mark VIII semi-auto Pistol was reliable ONLY with 124 Grain or heavier loadings, USA 115 Grain Loadings rarely had the "Oomph" to strip a new round from the magazine, but Federal 124 Grain and 147 Grain American Eagle never failed to completely cycle the thing. I've occasionally used IMI 158 Grain Ammunition over the years, but it's been just about 10 years since I've seen any offered for sale here in the U.S. in Case Lots. FWIW, I couldn't get the IMI 158 grain stuff to print better than 4" at 25 yards with a Bar-Sto barrelled Supported Chamber Colt Commander comp gun (Clark Pinmaster Comp), nor would it shoot any better out of a Match-Grade Shilen-Barrelled Marlin 9mm Camp Carbine. Nor in a Rebarrelled Martini Cadet in 9mm. IMI Black Tip Carbine Ammunition out of the same three firearms consistently printed 1"-2" groups with no trouble. Tailored handloads using Winchester(?) Bulk 147 Grain Flat Points would print just over 1/2" at 25 yards and just over 1" at 50 yards out of the Camp Carbine. While the Colt was not far behind at 1" at 25 yards. The Martini Cadet was sadly unavailable because the owner, in a moment of clarity, had it rebarrelled to 222 Rimmed.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 5:20:57 AM EDT
When I did some chronograph testing of the Samson 158 gr. ammo, I found that it was 20 fps SLOWER coming out of the 10.5" barrel of my Colt SMG than it was coming out of the 5" barrel of a Taurus PT99. This tells me that the powder in those rounds is burning very rapidly and the bullet is already decelerating before it exits the longer barrel. I have no plans to shoot any more of this ammo through these guns.
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