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Posted: 7/26/2003 2:20:33 PM EDT
I am getting ready to purchase a LEGAL M16 rifle in the near future. After shooting a guy's full-auto UZI with .22 conversion kit today, I feel that maybe shooting .22's out of a M16 may not be such a bad idea. What is the most reliable route to take, conversion kit or dedicated .22LR upper? What brand should I look for? Do .22's foul the barrel very badly? Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 3:21:11 PM EDT
As for reliability, I doubt there is much difference, if any, between a dedicated upper and a non dedicated upper. The dedicated uppers are most likely a little more accurate because of the 1 in 16 rifling. Just to confirm, the dedicated uppers built by KKF and Kuehl use the Ciener conversion kit. Ciener is the only kit I know of that uses 30 round mags. My Kuehl upper is extremely reliable (although my last shooting session had problems and showed me that I need a new firing pin). I did perform some tweaking to make it work better: I polished the rails and filed the feed lips. I need to clean this kit more often than my Uzi 22 kit to keep it working well. As far as fit and finish, my Kuehl upper is excellent! I like the fact that it does not use the chamber insert so the barrel looks shorter (more like the M4 length). As far as fouling the barrel, I cannot comment on using the kit with a regular .223/5.56 barrel. I use Winchester Dyapoints with my upper and never have leading problems. Here's a pic of mine: Dan [img]http://home.ix.netcom.com/~brownhen/_uimages/M16Commanchediagnol.JPG[/img]
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 5:48:10 PM EDT
Thanks, Dan. I kinda like the thought of shooting inexpensive .22's instead of 5.56. The guy with the full-auto UZI also has an M16. He said he has the [b]military[/b] .22LR conversion kit and cannot get it to work reliably. He said to maybe check into ones made by Atchison(sp?). The only ones I had heard of were made by Ciener. How hard are the 30-round mags to come by and what do they usually sell for? Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 6:33:56 PM EDT
I use a Ciener in my AR15, not full auto of course. The 30 rounders are becoming hard to locate. 125-175 a magazine, if you can find them. TRG
Link Posted: 7/26/2003 7:14:04 PM EDT
I have a Ciener in my M16 with a 10" barrel. After polishing all bearing surfaces, sharpening the extractor, and lubing it with moly paste, I could probably fire hundreds of rounds without a single failure. Allowing it to cool every 60 rounds or so keeps the leading down. I don't have any experience with other conversion units other than the Colt, but I think the Ciener version for the M16 with the anti-bounce weight and the automatic trip are the only ones that will function full-auto. But I may be wrong.
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 10:24:12 AM EDT
M4Madness, as I understand it, Max Atchisson invented the AR15/M16 kit now known as the Ciener Kit. Ciener bought the rights to the Atchisson kit. Ciener may have made some modifications to the original Atchisson model, but it is essentially the same. If you get extremely lucky, you can get 30 round Ciener mags for about $100/$115 each. But expect to pay around $150.00 each. I would check out the equipment exchange and subguns.com regularly to find them for sale. Be ready to jump on them fast. Dan
Link Posted: 7/27/2003 2:21:33 PM EDT
Ciener is now the manufacturer of the Atchisson mark III kit. Mine functioned flawlessly out of the box. If you have a registered M16 and order the M16 kit, you should be able to also order 30 rounders for it. The Military kit, was not made for full auto use. It was designed for semi auto fire only since its purpose was to teach marksmanship. Get the ciener through brownells and enjoy. All advice is not to deal with Ciener directly as he has a reputation for being abrasive to customers.
Link Posted: 7/28/2003 4:36:53 PM EDT
Shooting .22 out of an M16 is a great idea! I have a Ciener kit. In my quest for mags I ended up with two kits. I heard how many people have problems with them, so I took both kits and all my mags (6) to the range. With my brothers help loading mags we tested both kits (about 500 rounds each). One kit worked 100%. The other did not. In the kit that worked 100% all the mags worked 100% in it. I say don't listen to people who say you have to tweek the mags. I also tell people if you have a kit that doesn't work sell it on ebay and get another till you find one that does work. All the grinding a polishing that people do is a lot of work and frustration. Don't do it. I shoot it out of a Colt 14.5" lightweight carbine barrel. On my last trip to the range I shot my fill of 5.56mm first (about 400 rounds). Then I switched to .22LR. Big mistake. I had heavy leading. Most of the leading occured in later half of the barrel, so I think I will try a 6.5" barrel next and avoid the leading problem that way. If the barrel wasn't so hot I probably wouldn't have had the problem either. Some people say that the .22's will pack lead into the gas port, but I haven't had a problem with that. I think the .22 kits are a blast with full auto. In semi auto they cost about as much as a Ruger 10/22, so I don't recomend it for that. I think the dedicated barrels are a waste of money. The biggest reason to get one is for accuracy. I don't think that is an issue with an M16. Its best for chasing tin cans around the range. However if you have the coin to drop on a trasferable M16 you might as well spurge on a dedicated upper too. I'm still paying for my M16, so I'm not going to do that yet. Happy shopping!
Link Posted: 8/6/2003 2:04:06 PM EDT
Thanks, guys, for all the info. I almost forgot I had this thread in here, as I never visit this forum. [:)]
Link Posted: 8/7/2003 7:41:22 AM EDT
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