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Posted: 7/13/2003 4:30:42 AM EDT
Anybody out there no how Dalphon Arms converts the grease gun mags to work in the lower?I am going to buy some mags and try to convert them.I have a mig welder and a milling machine.I AIN`T GONA PAY $79.00 fer no $10.00 mag. If anybody out there has tried this please let me no what to do.I am useing the old style mag block.THANKS for any info.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 2:18:53 PM EDT
I’m looking into this also. I have a box full of GG mags and I would like to use them in my M16. I tried cutting the reinforcing wrap off and squeezing it in a machinist vice. I ended up deforming the mag terribly. I think you will have to make an insert to side inside the mag while you are squeezing the outside. That way it won’t deform too badly. I also recommend grinding the spot welds off first. I banged one up badly trying to get that foreskin off. I am sure that someone will chime in saying how illegal it is, but like you said Dalphon is doing it. Hopefully come next year it will be a moot point anyway.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:20:57 PM EDT
colt1911s, Here are some close-up pics of what the Dalphon mags look like. No way in heck I would pay $79 for them either - I managed to get a couple through package deals and "throw-ins". [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/051855-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/051856-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/051858-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/051860-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/051861-big.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/051862-big.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:26:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 5:34:59 PM EDT by Gloftoe]
Just FYI: According to the BATF (I could look it up I'm sure, but so can you), modifying a pre-ban magazine to the extent that it does NOT fit into the firearm it was designed for is considered manufacturing a new, hi-capacity magazine, and therefore is illegal for us "peons" to do. Stripping off the sheet metal reinforcement on the top of the GG magazine would seem (to me anyway) permanently modifying said magazine. I went thru this when I was looking at a 9mm upper for my AR15. I was concerned about how Olympic modifies Sten mags, to work with the standard AR15 mag release. I went as far as going to [url=http://www.oa2.org]The Olympic Arms Owner's Association[/url] board, and asking how Oly was getting away with this. I was told by "Rattler" on that board that "ATF has never adsvised us that these mags are illegal." He wasn't clear whether or not he worked for Olympic Arms, but his use of "never advised [b]us[/b]", it seemed to me that he did. He DID state that he was not there as an official rep for Olympic Arms.[url=http://www.oa2.org/viewtopic.php?t=54](Here is the thread if you want to go look at it)[/url] Would I risk it? Probably not. Wait till next year to see what happens. It may (hopefully) be a moot point then.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:31:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Gloftoe: Just FYI (yes I'm chiming in, I'd hate the BATF trolls that read this board to point out how illegal activities are posted unchecked on this board): According to the BATF (I could look it up I'm sure, but so can you), modifying a pre-ban magazine to the extent that it does NOT fit into the firearm it was designed for is considered manufacturing a new, hi-capacity magazine, and therefore is illegal for us "peons" to do. Stripping off the sheet metal reinforcement on the top of the GG magazine would seem (to me anyway) permanently modifying said magazine.
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Good point. I don't have a grease gun, so I'm not sure what the effect of taking off the sleeve would do, but if it indeed does not fit anymore, that would be illegal. It also looks like Dalphon welded on some feed lip reinforcements as well. Gloftoe is probably right about modifying grease gun mags in this fashion being illegal (as opposed to the way Olympic does their Sten mags). I should add the disclaimer that my mags are all from Dalphon and that there was no WECSOG work involved [:D]!
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:43:25 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Engineer: I should add the disclaimer that my mags are all from Dalphon and that there was no WECSOG work involved [:D]!
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WTF does WECSOG mean?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:46:53 PM EDT
Engineer, you wrote:
Here are some close-up pics of what the Dalphon mags look like. No way in heck I would pay $79 for them either - I managed to get a couple through package deals and "throw-ins".
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Do you have any connections with the folks at Dalphon? I need some Grease Gun mag springs and (especially) followers, and I called them and got the brush-off. Maybe you could help?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:48:02 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/14/2003 5:49:42 PM EDT by Engineer]
Originally Posted By Corvus:
Originally Posted By Engineer: I should add the disclaimer that my mags are all from Dalphon and that there was no WECSOG work involved [:D]!
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WTF does WECSOG mean?
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Funny you should ask - I found this image from a post which pretty much explains it all: [img]photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=14852&iGalleryUnq=209&iImageUnq=1857[/img]
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 5:53:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Corvus: Do you have any connections with the folks at Dalphon? I need some Grease Gun mag springs and (especially) followers, and I called them and got the brush-off. Maybe you could help?
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Actually I don't. I didn't even order my mags from Dalphon - I acquired them when I purchased my PCR-45 and my dealer gave me another one when I bought a RRA from him. Some others might know who you could talk to in order to get the parts you need.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 1:29:33 PM EDT
Take the original mag to a good, local machine shop, they can probably fix you up for $30-$50, depending on the amount of "machine time" to do the job, still beats $80!
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 1:32:00 PM EDT
Tom "Rattler" Spithaler is head of Olympics Arms sales dept, he has worked there for over 10 years or so. Good question on what constitutes "legal" magazine conversions, I wish we had some clarity on the issue. Its confusing when the manufacturer can do one thing and a private citizen is unable to do the same. Fritze Out
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 1:51:06 PM EDT
You can weld a block to the back of a sten mag, and it will still fit the original gun when the block is removed. I dunno about the legality of Dalphons mags, but Oly has been selling theirs for years w/o any BATF issues. I say leave well enough alone. As soon as someone starts drawing attention to something thats been allowed, then "someone" will FUBAR it for the rest of us.
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 1:18:15 PM EDT
Has anyone ever tried to modify a SOCOM mag block so that it would retain a greasegun mag? If it worker it would be an considerably less expensive way to use the mags, and would avoid the leaglity question altogether...
Link Posted: 7/17/2003 5:03:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180: Has anyone ever tried to modify a SOCOM mag block so that it would retain a greasegun mag? If it worker it would be an considerably less expensive way to use the mags, and would avoid the leaglity question altogether...
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That isn't the issue. The problem is the GG mag is to wide. It won't fit in a regular AR magazine well. That is why the sheeting has to be removed. Now, I hate to push things, but the only "lower" out there that can fit a GG mag as of now is the Cavalry Arms Cav-15 Mk II lower. The pics have been posted. Granted, it can't fit 100% all the way forward, so some kind of mini front block would be required to use it on an Oly set up. It might clear the spring ejector that way, but I don't have an Oly system to look on "where" the spring ejector is. Some have thought about making a Colt style upper to use w/ this new lower design. It'll open up some new options for sure.... can't wait to get mine.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 10:40:47 AM EDT
Is it possible the Oly 9mm mags were made before Nov. '94? I just got an Oly 10mm (very, very cool, btw!) and it comes with a 10 shot converted .41 AE uzi mag. The interesting part is, Oly said they were out of hi cap mags. However, this appears to be a SHORTENED uzi mag, modified to only hold 10 shots... there are holes to indicated how many cartridges are loaded (both 10 and 15). The 15 round hole is so near the bottom, there is no way to load it with 15 rounds unless the mag was originally much longer. I was planning on buying a Dalphon mag (yes, for $79, but I need at least one hi-cap mag) but those pictures really dissuaded me... looks rather "cobbed" together, even if they do function... and I do wonder on the legality of them. Do Thompson mags fit in a standard lower? (I know of that one guy that makes those VERY expensive custom .45 ARs, but those are clearly not standard lowers.) Or, is there a source of .45 or .41 UZI mags? Thanks Scot
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 2:02:08 PM EDT
I have a 16rd. 41ae UZI mag I will sell you for $50.00 but it is the type you have to use a SOCOM mag block.I have one of the mag blocks for $50.00.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 5:35:35 PM EDT
In the mid 90s, LaFranc industires of California made an AR15 that take thompson mags. The receiver was designed to take thompson mags. The guns hit the market a few years ago at $1000.00 plus each. I can't find the articles for the gun. Anyone here hear of this gun.
Link Posted: 7/18/2003 5:49:35 PM EDT
Yup. And no sence of asking about it since it is being sold to Govt./Law Enforcment ONLY. The price is high since it's all custom....
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 8:19:53 AM EDT
Here's the link for the LaFranc .45... www.nait.com/m161.html ... and the price is more like $2500! Thanks for the offer, Colt1911s, but an extra six rounds just isn't enough! Scot
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 1:12:56 PM EDT
The OLY 45 ACP uzi mags are "converted" from 41 AE uzi mags, ie they are squished in a vice to fit an AR magwell and the followers are tweaked/fitted. Gun Parts Corp used to be a source for them, 41 AE uzi mags, but are not listed there anymore. Vices, rawhide mallets and Dremel tools are a firearms industries best friends,lol. Fritze Out
Link Posted: 7/19/2003 3:21:28 PM EDT
I hope someone comes up with a lower/ mag block combo that uses unmodify high-cap magazines soon.
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 9:08:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: I hope someone comes up with a lower/ mag block combo that uses unmodify high-cap magazines soon.
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You mean other then notching it.....
Link Posted: 7/24/2003 6:24:40 PM EDT
Originally Posted By JIMBEAM: I hope someone comes up with a lower/ mag block combo that uses unmodify high-cap magazines soon.
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They have... and it's already been mentioned above, in this thread.
Link Posted: 7/29/2003 9:16:59 AM EDT
Of course, is everyone forgeting how difficult it would be to make a 45 carbine with a welded/machined lower and a welded/machined tube style upper? Spring loaded flip up sights on a top rail that runs the entire length of the receiver. MMM...I need to get out my BIG GIGANTISEMO SUPER DUPER notebook of ideas and a good pen to draw with. Why have I been putting this off? Course, if the AWB goes away, I plan on making me up some alluminum mags, like AR mags, only for 45. Make them to fit in a standard lower and hold the bolt open. Width compromises capacity a bit, upless you want to make the mag swell out beneath the magwell, but I think that might cause reliability problems. Prolly just being paranoid though. I am thinking that bout 20 rounds is a good combo of handiness and length. Little bit more maybe. I have a feeling there will be a lot of good ideas going into production if/when AWB goes away.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 12:06:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/30/2003 12:15:06 PM EDT by Dawg180]
I am guessing that tommy gun mags are also too wide to fit in a standard lower receiver magwell? Hmm, now I am trying to think of any production .45 mags that would be narrow enough to fit.... Anyone every think of goofing around with M16 mags with a block in it or something? I'll have to go home and play around tonight with some .45 rounds and a magazine....
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 4:25:19 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Dawg180: I am guessing that tommy gun mags are also too wide to fit in a standard lower receiver magwell? Hmm, now I am trying to think of any production .45 mags that would be narrow enough to fit.... Anyone every think of goofing around with M16 mags with a block in it or something? I'll have to go home and play around tonight with some .45 rounds and a magazine....
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Blocking it might work, but that's a lot of "block". The only "production" mags I could think of are the single stack 1911 mags, the 10+ rounders. Other then that, most are too wide. That's why Cav Arms re-did the lower... and came out w/ the Mk II.
Link Posted: 7/30/2003 5:53:32 PM EDT
In my 10mm Oly, a standard mag will not seat... the ejector hits... the mag could be notched to go around the ejector, however. I think it would be fairly easy to take a cheap steel .223 mag and modify it to "hold" hi-cap pistol mags... without permanently altering the pistol mag for legality issues. I know Oly has a pistol mag/block system like this but do not know anyone who has one. Scot
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