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Link Posted: 7/5/2017 3:34:06 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:
I believe having a sling is important in a home defence rifle.   It keeps the rifle attached to you so it can't be taken away. If you were to trip and fall, your rifle could go flying where you don't want it to go.   Iron sights with a good white light is all that's needed. You have to remember if you have to engage a threat in your house, it will be 25ft or less more than likely.  point and shoot distance.  my.02
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Honestly if the guy has a hold of my rifle I would rather not have it slung up around my body. It would be easier to tackle the guy; rather than being strangled with my own sling. Also having my walk ways and hall ways clear is not only important for home defense, but especially if there where to be a fire or a earth quake around here.
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 3:38:05 PM EDT
[#2]
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Wtf home defense situation are you imagining?  If you squeeze off 150 rounds in your house, there's no way in hell you don't get prosecuted for something.

I don't think I've heard of a home defense situation in America where the homeowner used even 20 rounds.
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That's where a redimag, or that stock that holds a mag becomes valuable. It makes a pretty much ready to go rifle, with back up just in cases. Those foregrip mag holders are shit, and make the rifle front heavy as hell
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 4:30:43 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Honestly if the guy has a hold of my rifle I would rather not have it slung up around my body. It would be easier to tackle the guy; rather than being strangled with my own sling. Also having my walk ways and hall ways clear is not only important for home defense, but especially if there where to be a fire or a earth quake around here.
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You'd rather give up your rifle to an adversary than have better weapon retention?  You and I have different plans.

A sling isn't just about retention.  There are times when you may need to transition to a handgun (e.g. in a space too confined to use a rifle) or trying to open doors (if your rifle is too long), etc.  I would NEVER want a fighting rifle without a sling.

Try moving around your house with locked doors, a child to pick up and carry to safety, a dropped set of keys or flashlight with an unslung primary.
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 5:04:18 PM EDT
[#4]
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Get a PRO and leave it on 24/7.  No need to turn anything on should you need it.
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THIS^^ skip that iron sight BS, you aint shooting inch targets or anything, a red dot is plenty accurate for inside the house range (unless you live in a football field). Aimpoint, sling, light, spare mag on buttstock. like seriously if you get 28(yes I down loaded, to 28) rounds off , reload and are still fighting you either : A have spontainously moved your house to Mosul,  OR B pissed off a VERY dedicated hitsquad and should have seen this coming, OR C wonder if you ought to simply die,  you fired 58 rounds and didn't connect, they fired 4 times as many(assuming 4 bad guys your house is going to have more holes than a lesbian orgy sorority house porn video)
Link Posted: 7/5/2017 7:16:42 PM EDT
[#5]
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Quoted:


You'd rather give up your rifle to an adversary than have better weapon retention?  You and I have different plans.

A sling isn't just about retention.  There are times when you may need to transition to a handgun (e.g. in a space too confined to use a rifle) or trying to open doors (if your rifle is too long), etc.  I would NEVER want a fighting rifle without a sling.

Try moving around your house with locked doors, a child to pick up and carry to safety, a dropped set of keys or flashlight with an unslung primary.
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Well the thing is, if the guy has my rifle... I can literally jump on him. The only time a person would be in a position to grab my rifle would be in a hall way. With my rooms being large, and creating distance. Take in mind that my Ar has a 16" barrel and an A2 length stock. If the guy has my rifle he's close, and he won't be able to use my rifle. Again what are you going to do if the guy has a hold of your rifle while it's strung up around you
Getting to the transition. If I have time to strap on my holster, and pistol it's not getting into HD. I'm planning for a break in, and when I hear a noise, I'm not going to strap on my pistol grab my rifle. It's either pistol or rifle. And another bonus to not having a sling is that I can maneuver the rifle  shoulder to shoulder A LOT easier than with a sling around my neck. (Granted a 2 point sling)
If I trip on something I drop my rifle and I can just pick it up. It's not like it's going to go flying across the ground. I have carpeting and the rifle will just hit the ground with me. How would a sling help me carry a child? I assume you are saying using two hands and dropping the rifle. I don't see how that does any advantage if you would need to shoot. You're still going to have to drop the child and pull the rifle up to shoot. It's not incredibly hard to hold a rifle in your primary arm while holding a child. That depends on age of course.

Of course it's highly likely that you have a lot more training than me. However with my houses layout I feel that going without a sling is my best option. Everyone sleeps on the second floor for me, and from there I have a vantage point to see most of the house including the stairs. With that vantage point, I'm not going to go downstairs to find some action. I'm going to stay upstairs and defend my family. Especially in CA, going out to shoot at them might backfire on me greatly.
Link Posted: 7/8/2017 1:32:00 AM EDT
[#6]
CQB shots at room distances are often taken via point shooting. Not out of doctrine, but instinct under pressure. That said, at 15 yards and under aiming with your weapon light works too. But if you want greater accuracy and speed under pressure, an RDS is the way to go.  Tritium on irons is a waste of money as others have said. A novice trying to align irons in dim light in a defense situation is asking for trouble whereas a red dot is point and click simple.

As to the dot washing out when using the weapon light, there are a couple solutions. One is obviously having it bright enough, which I'd only advise in an RDS that advertises instant-on or 50,000 hour battery life. Two is closing the front cover on the RDS and using it as an OEG (occluded eye gunsight) but you have to range test that to check your point of aim point of impact shift for your unique eyes. If it's within acceptable range for home defense distances then you can run the sight at a lower setting and always be able to see the dot even if staring into the sun. Three is getting an etched reticle 1x sight like Vortex Spitfire 1x.

Lastly, if your family happens to be in a room behind the bad guy and you're forced to fire but worried about overpenetration, get on your knee and fire upward into his torso and rounds will likely continue upwards and over anyone behind. If you need to carry an extra mag on the rifle, something like the ETS mag with coupler is fine. Problem with home defense is there may not be enough time to strap on a belt or chest rig. In fact, I'd be worried about having enough time to put on a sling.
Link Posted: 7/8/2017 10:44:52 AM EDT
[#7]
Meh, slings aren't applicable for everyone.
I have slings but don't even have one on my HD gun.
I live in an apartment and my bedroom is about 35-40 ft from the front door. The time it would take for me to get my ass out of bed and grab my rofl is about the time it'd take for them to get to my door.  I live alone, too, so it's not like I'm going to be clearing out an entire house... more like just waiting for them to bust in my bedroom.
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 11:09:59 AM EDT
[#8]
House layout also plays a part in setup.  

I have a two story house with all the bedrooms upstairs and anyone who wants to come up has to go up an enclosed stairway straight up to the landing.  

If there's a problem in the middle of the night I can simply camp out at the top with my rifle pointed down at the bottom landing with my loved ones safely behind me while I wait for the cavalry.

No need for a sling in my situation.  Now I should probably consider a 'grab-n-go' rifle with a sling dedicated for outdoor use if for some reason I do have to leave in a hurry and need a rifle, but that's another story.
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 11:44:53 AM EDT
[#9]
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I have a two story house with all the bedrooms upstairs and anyone who wants to come up has to go up an enclosed stairway straight up to the landing.  
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Sounds like you could use the Home Alone paintcan-on-a-roepe in your stairway.
Link Posted: 7/28/2017 1:13:11 PM EDT
[#10]
It would work too... except knowing me I would end up wonking myself with it.  
Link Posted: 8/27/2017 12:20:36 AM EDT
[#11]
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 5:32:37 PM EDT
[#12]
Sling and a red dot optic. Prefer Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 8/28/2017 6:00:15 PM EDT
[#13]
Get her to understand the CQB/ ballistics of a 223/ 556 round. Ie. it will travel through a perps body and then a 2x4 wall stud and into the body of someone you love that resides in the home that maybe in another section of the home as well. She better darn well be familiar with this aspect before, simply pointing the weapon and letting a few projectiles go down range.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 6:16:25 AM EDT
[#14]
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Quoted:
FWIW,on my "go-to" self defense carbine I viewed the "must-have" features as this:

#1 reliability....while all my AR's are reliable, I actually put one of my highest round count ones into this role, because I KNOW it works 100% of the time, in any condition.

#2 A good light

#3 A good red dot with auto on feature and long battery life, just in case my wife or daughters have to use it. They know how to shoot, but it's much easier for them to "put dot on bad guy and shoot" rather than worry about sight picture, etc. The "always on" and or auto on feature was important because I don't need/want me or them to be fumbling with a dial/buttons.

#4 A good, and simple 2 point sling
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I agree with this except the sling may be optional and one thing I think is crucial that has not been mentioned is a low level navigation light. Mine is built into my bright white light. You want to be able to see how to navigate without tripping over something, while not ruining your night vision and giving your position away. Low level white or red LED light can do this. By the way I think the RDS is critical for your wife. Leave it on. Much more intuitive for someone that does not shoot a lot and irons do not work in the dark. Buy quality. How much do you spend on homeowners insurance every year? This is insurance. What is her life worth? Buy quality for HD use.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 12:12:28 PM EDT
[#15]
Have to agree that the kiss concept with irons is paradoxical.

Red dots are easier to use. That's kiss.

Iron sights are less technologically complex but require more practice and training. But are considered kiss by many?

Trained with irons in the military did nothing but irons until 2006 I got a chance at an Eoteched ar carbine and it rocked my world. Absurdly easy to use. Was making ridiculous shots with ease.

I understand that in home defense the range is very small. So maybe it's moot. But to me the red dot is KISS. I'm still a little surprised (and I'm sure it's been covered many times in endless debates) that there are "KISSers" who think irons only. Provided one doesn't leave th3 lens cap on or forget to turn it on, red dots are easier to use.

I stand by to be wrong, I'm not married to my opinion. But that's my take on it
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 2:12:22 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:
Have to agree that the kiss concept with irons is paradoxical.

Red dots are easier to use. That's kiss.

Iron sights are less technologically complex but require more practice and training. But are considered kiss by many?

Trained with irons in the military did nothing but irons until 2006 I got a chance at an Eoteched ar carbine and it rocked my world. Absurdly easy to use. Was making ridiculous shots with ease.

I understand that in home defense the range is very small. So maybe it's moot. But to me the red dot is KISS. I'm still a little surprised (and I'm sure it's been covered many times in endless debates) that there are "KISSers" who think irons only. Provided one doesn't leave th3 lens cap on or forget to turn it on, red dots are easier to use.

I stand by to be wrong, I'm not married to my opinion. But that's my take on it
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I think people think that Iron Sights or KISS is that they aren't easy to destroy or fudge up. However in Home Defense, I don't see how it would be possible to break most quality optics.
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 12:45:24 PM EDT
[#17]
if this is just going to sit bedside, you shouldn't need to drop Trijicon or Aimpoint money. Hi-Lux makes a good red dot for like $250 mount included. Can be found for cheaper. Advertised battery life 55,000 hours on normal brightness settings (whatever that means).
Link Posted: 9/9/2017 7:04:28 PM EDT
[#18]
My current HD rifle is a sbr with a rds, backup irons and a trl weapon light. I am using gold dots in 64grain? In a 20rnd mag, 30 rnd ones are close at hand as well.
Also wears a sling

Our master bedroom is upstairs and the kids room is downstairs in the front of the house, to get to his room you have to walk right by the entrance of the stairs to the master.

We leave nightlights on downstairs and also have cameras all over as well as outside with motion alerts.

When we first moved in the wife and I both ran "drills" of moving through the house with the rifle and how to move in low light situation.

One thing people forget is lights work both ways, may blind the intruder but will also blind you as well as it reflects off the painted walls of the rooms. It can also wash out the rdskeet.it can also give away your position
So it's good to practice using the light sparingly

My old standby KISS carbine is a 16" pencil barrel A1  with a basic sling, iron sights and a 20rnd mag of TAP. It's a simple no frills gun that goes bang every time

One other thing to remember is during a home invasion that your heart will be pumping and the red dot will be dancing all over the place, even at short distances it is still easy to miss and you own each bullet that is fired.

Next time you go to the range, lay the gun on the table and run from 20+ feet up to it and then try to shoot small groups and see how you do, it won't be the same but it can give you a small idea of how your heart will be beating fast.
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