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Posted: 6/5/2023 4:32:37 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: If undergassed, several things to do before needing to drill: Lightweight carrier, pull weights out of the buffer, use better magazines. I had a 27" pencil bbl w/ rifle + 3" gas made, and it would only function on XM193 w/ a lightweight carrier & all the weights pulled out of the buffer. Before those changes, it ran slightly better on Magpul curved mags than it did on Magpul straight 20s. Clearly I don't understand what is going on. I reported earlier that I had (have) a light weight BCG and a set of carbine buffers with decreasing weights. All of those worked worse than the normal BCR and 3.7 oz carbine buffer. And the one change that allowed repeated firing less the last round lock back, was with the buffer spring I cut down. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 5:11:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#2]
Can you post pictures of your buffers, springs, carbine tubes, magazines, & bolt carriers?
If it'll fire, cock, & not feed, I'll call undergassed. Have you tried the lightweight bolt carrier & a lighter weight buffer? ETA: OP, is this an 80% lower you milled out? Not seeing any manufacturing markings in the pics you posted. You said your buddy's upper worked on this lower just fine, correct? |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 5:34:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Really need a video to tell.
While it could be undergassed like bb said above, it could also be that the carrier is moving too fast to pickup the next round. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 9:13:16 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seand1111: Really need a video to tell. While it could be undergassed like bb said above, it could also be that the carrier is moving too fast to pickup the next round. That's why my Gen 5 Perfection is in Georgia right now. 
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Posted: 6/5/2023 9:16:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joesmoe3]
[#5]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seand1111: Really need a video to tell. While it could be undergassed like bb said above, it could also be that the carrier is moving too fast to pickup the next round. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seand1111: Really need a video to tell. While it could be undergassed like bb said above, it could also be that the carrier is moving too fast to pickup the next round. Originally Posted By backbencher: Can you post pictures of your buffers, springs, carbine tubes, magazines, & bolt carriers? If it'll fire, cock, & not feed, I'll call undergassed. Have you tried the lightweight bolt carrier & a lighter weight buffer? ETA: OP, is this an 80% lower you milled out? Not seeing any manufacturing markings in the pics you posted. You said your buddy's upper worked on this lower just fine, correct? Originally Posted By seand1111: Really need a video to tell. While it could be undergassed like bb said above, it could also be that the carrier is moving too fast to pickup the next round. Will get the video - takes some active adjustments to increase the frame rate such that there is useful information. Yes, I tried a lighter BCG and a series of progressively lighter buffers - which performed worse (would not even eject the brass) Yes, with the carbine spring and buffer, my buddies carbine upper worked fine, including lock back after last round.   The photo with the upper, shows the charging handle and two presumably spec BCGs with the only difference being the finish. The photo with the lower, shows the gold buffer and spring that are part of the matched set installed for the range today. Next to that is the spring where I cut it down by two rings or so - it was with that spring that the firearm first began functioning, as in semi-auto fire, leaving only the last round lock back still not working. Then shown is a lightweight BCG and three lightweight buffers: 2.6, 2.2, and 1.7 oz respectively. As previously mentioned, none of these worked. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 9:35:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#6]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Will get the video - takes some active adjustments to increase the frame rate such that there is useful information. Yes, I tried a lighter BCG and a series of progressively lighter buffers - which performed worse (would not even eject the brass) Yes, with the carbine spring and buffer, my buddies carbine upper worked fine, including lock back after last round. https://i.postimg.cc/yJ67DMG3/left-20230605.png https://i.postimg.cc/BPF3W4jk/right-20230605.png The photo with the upper, shows the charging handle and two presumably spec BCGs with the only difference being the finish. The photo with the lower, shows the gold buffer and spring that are part of the matched set installed for the range today. Next to that is the spring where I cut it down by two rings or so - it was with that spring that the firearm first began functioning, as in semi-auto fire, leaving only the last round lock back still not working. Then shown is a lightweight BCG and three lightweight buffers: 2.6, 2.2, and 1.7 oz respectively. As previously mentioned, none of these worked. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Originally Posted By seand1111: Really need a video to tell. While it could be undergassed like bb said above, it could also be that the carrier is moving too fast to pickup the next round. Originally Posted By backbencher: Can you post pictures of your buffers, springs, carbine tubes, magazines, & bolt carriers? If it'll fire, cock, & not feed, I'll call undergassed. Have you tried the lightweight bolt carrier & a lighter weight buffer? ETA: OP, is this an 80% lower you milled out? Not seeing any manufacturing markings in the pics you posted. You said your buddy's upper worked on this lower just fine, correct? Originally Posted By seand1111:Really need a video to tell. While it could be undergassed like bb said above, it could also be that the carrier is moving too fast to pickup the next round. Will get the video - takes some active adjustments to increase the frame rate such that there is useful information. Yes, I tried a lighter BCG and a series of progressively lighter buffers - which performed worse (would not even eject the brass) Yes, with the carbine spring and buffer, my buddies carbine upper worked fine, including lock back after last round. https://i.postimg.cc/yJ67DMG3/left-20230605.png https://i.postimg.cc/BPF3W4jk/right-20230605.png The photo with the upper, shows the charging handle and two presumably spec BCGs with the only difference being the finish. The photo with the lower, shows the gold buffer and spring that are part of the matched set installed for the range today. Next to that is the spring where I cut it down by two rings or so - it was with that spring that the firearm first began functioning, as in semi-auto fire, leaving only the last round lock back still not working. Then shown is a lightweight BCG and three lightweight buffers: 2.6, 2.2, and 1.7 oz respectively. As previously mentioned, none of these worked. Ok, this is weird. You subtract mass, and go from LRBHO failing to ejection failing. I suppose we'll have to go w/ overgassed then, and see if you can add mass. Not as cheap to do as chopping a spring. Have an H2 or H3 buffer on hand? ETA: Sorry, let's try putting my comments in the right place. One of the most frustrating things is diagnosing if an AR is severely undergassed or overgassed, b/c some of the symptoms are the same. I am not an expert at troubleshooting the AR. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 10:46:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Ok, this is weird. You subtract mass, and go from LRBHO failing to ejection failing. I suppose we'll have to go w/ overgassed then, and see if you can add mass. Not as cheap to do as chopping a spring. Have an H2 or H3 buffer on hand? ETA: Sorry, let's try putting my comments in the right place. One of the most frustrating things is diagnosing if an AR is severely undergassed or overgassed, b/c some of the symptoms are the same. I am not an expert at troubleshooting the AR. Whoa, you're way ahead of me on these machines. H2, H3 - no -- just a matter of ordering them. |
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Posted: 6/5/2023 10:48:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Whoa, you're way ahead of me on these machines. H2, H3 - no -- just a matter of ordering them. Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Originally Posted By backbencher: Ok, this is weird. You subtract mass, and go from LRBHO failing to ejection failing. I suppose we'll have to go w/ overgassed then, and see if you can add mass. Not as cheap to do as chopping a spring. Have an H2 or H3 buffer on hand? ETA: Sorry, let's try putting my comments in the right place. One of the most frustrating things is diagnosing if an AR is severely undergassed or overgassed, b/c some of the symptoms are the same. I am not an expert at troubleshooting the AR. Whoa, you're way ahead of me on these machines. H2, H3 - no -- just a matter of ordering them. Don't order an H2 or H3 buffer, just order some tungsten weights. ETA: Just the 1st results that came up, not vouching for these websites: https://pur-tungsten.com/product/tungsten-recoil-buffer-weights/ https://www.ama zon.com/Tungsten-Heavy-Buffer-H2-Weights/dp/B0916BK6P4 (Link intentionally broken to prevent ARFCOM from selling your data.) https://dlaskarms.com/product/tungsten-ar-15-buffer-weight/ |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 12:09:42 AM EDT
[#9]
Yeah, I’m thinking over gassed for the rifle upper and carbine tubed lower.
You might also consider the Odin works adjustable buffer. It lets you play with weight to determine the right amount. Not cheap, but cheaper than buying multiple buffers. I run these in my suppressed shorties because they all act a little different with and w/o a supressor. https://www.odinworks.com/Adjustable-Buffer-p/os-abs.htm |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 9:10:43 AM EDT
[#10]
Thank you for the inputs.
Will be a short delay to try the next setup. |
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Posted: 6/6/2023 9:25:11 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Thank you for the inputs. Will be a short delay to try the next setup. Well, before you go off and toss more money at it, let’s see the video. If you have an iPhone, use the iMovie app to slow the frames down. If you have an android based phone… well, I can’t help there. |
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Posted: 6/7/2023 11:49:37 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By seand1111: Well, before you go off and toss more money at it, let’s see the video. If you have an iPhone, use the iMovie app to slow the frames down. If you have an android based phone… well, I can’t help there. Yes, have iPhone 13 - was going to try to record in SLO-MO. Hadn't thought of using iMovie to further slow down the frames. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 7:01:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Range day: Thursday 20230615
Video is shown with "standard" carbine buffer [3.7oz] - cut carbine spring: Note: in one video, the bolt locks back [surprise !], while in the next, it doesn't. NOT shown in video is my trials with H2 and H3 buffers, neither of which worked. Repeated three-round mags twice more - firearm will cycle reliably - did not lock back after last round. I do have the suggested adjustable buffer kit - for another day. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 8:17:24 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Range day: Thursday 20230615 Video is shown with "standard" carbine buffer [3.7oz] - cut carbine spring:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwpqRij_t7k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDrq__dhFoYNote: in one video, the bolt locks back [surprise !], while in the next, it doesn't. NOT shown in video is my trials with H2 and H3 buffers, neither of which worked. Repeated three-round mags twice more - firearm will cycle reliably - did not lock back after last round. I do have the suggested adjustable buffer kit - for another day. Good to hear back from you. Thanks for the videos and on YouTube, we can slow them down even more. So, one thing I noticed on the first video is carrier / bolt bounce. Traveling too fast…. It’s quite possible the carrier is is traveling too fast to allow the bolt catch to lift. So with a H2 and H3 you were cycling fine, but still not locking back? I would be curious to see what the carrier is doing with those also. Couple more questions. What lower is that? Do you notice anything that causes the bolt catch to “stick” or move slowly? |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 8:22:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: HighpowerRifleBrony]
[#15]
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Posted: 6/15/2023 9:31:56 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: I'm not seeing the BCG travel back all the way. ~0.5" short. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/379478/Short_Stroke_20_inch_jpg-2852797.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/379478/Short_Stroke_20_inch_2_jpg-2852798.JPG good catch, i couldn't slow that down enough to see it on my phone |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:16:56 PM EDT
[#17]
I remind y'all, when asking about the lower and such, it worked fine with a borrowed upper - worked in all respects.
That's why my first inclination was to bug Aero Precision - provider of the complete upper. And still they have not responded. |
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Posted: 6/15/2023 10:52:38 PM EDT
[Last Edit: seand1111]
[#18]
i dont recall, does the upper work on other lowers?
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Posted: 6/17/2023 1:20:42 PM EDT
[#19]
It looks like the bolt DID NOT lock back. Your magazine catch is on the front of the bolt carrier NOT the front of the bolt.
Hmmmmmm..... I think this means your bolt/bolt carrier are not going back far enough, or your bolt hold open activated by the magazine has an issue (the latter is rare). Is the bolt hold open installed correctly? Seems it would be, as it ran fine with a different upper. I am stumped |
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Posted: 6/18/2023 1:31:09 AM EDT
[#20]
Haven't have the bandwidth to watch the videos yet. OP, when you posted the pics of your buffer tube inhabitants, it didn't look like there was anything unusual. No buffer pad stuck at the bottom of the tube? No quarters stuck back there for good luck?
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TX, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2023 12:19:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: waltherpp]
[#21]
Just a thought, could maybe your bolt catch be bad or out of speck ?
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/18/2023 1:04:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kurpak]
[#22]
I just posted a long response, but backspaced it. After watching the videos just looks like not enough gas to me. A super easy way to rule this out
is ditch the .223 and try some hotter ammo (xm193 etc.) If the bolt starts locking back on empty, and you get more forward ejection with the hot ammo then you know it's low gas. Sometimes with a new gun the bolt\barrel\gas ring interface is super tight and prevents smooth unlocking\short stroking until everything breaks in. I watched this exact scenario play out at the range the other day.. handed the guy a mag with xm193 and his gun ran great. Run a few boxes of nato spec through there and report back. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 9:56:41 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By backbencher: Haven't have the bandwidth to watch the videos yet. OP, when you posted the pics of your buffer tube inhabitants, it didn't look like there was anything unusual. No buffer pad stuck at the bottom of the tube? No quarters stuck back there for good luck? Ha ha. I have changed buffer tubes - so while "stuck" might be possible for one, would think it highly unlikely for two. Thanks. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 12:42:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joesmoe3]
[#24]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kurpak: I just posted a long response, but backspaced it. After watching the videos just looks like not enough gas to me. A super easy way to rule this out is ditch the .223 and try some hotter ammo (xm193 etc.) If the bolt starts locking back on empty, and you get more forward ejection with the hot ammo then you know it's low gas. Sometimes with a new gun the bolt\barrel\gas ring interface is super tight and prevents smooth unlocking\short stroking until everything breaks in. I watched this exact scenario play out at the range the other day.. handed the guy a mag with xm193 and his gun ran great. Run a few boxes of nato spec through there and report back. Interesting thoughts. And it would be nice if with additional rounds it started working better ("breaking in" as it were). The ammo I'm using is showing 3,200 fps - what does "hotter" look like ? |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:10:22 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By waltherpp: Just a thought, could maybe your bolt catch be bad or out of speck ? All thoughts welcome, and the thread is getting a bit long. Earlier in the thread I mentioned someone lending me their upper, and it worked fine on my lower. That lead me to focus on the upper. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:32:23 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kurpak]
[#26]
What ammo are you currently using to test? Anything .223 is going to be a lot weaker than nato spec m193 5.56 across the board.
3200 out of a 20" barrel doesn't really tell us much since 20 inchers will have high velocity with pretty much anything. Anyway, hot 5.56 like xm193 or IMI would be some good ammo to try to rule out or confirm weak gas.. even the white box Winchester you mentioned might be good to try if it's the 193 stuff. The only way to test "more gas" is run hot ammo, or open up the port.. which we don't want to mess with until trying some less invasive measures ;) With an undergassed gun, even going to lighter springs and buffers might not be enough to get locking back if you're suffering weak gas, or like I mentioned earlier, tight lockup in the bolt\gas rings\barrel interface until things break in. More blasty ammo should help overcome these issues if that's what is going on. On the flipside, if too much gas is the problem, this hotter ammo is going to start slamming the recoil impulse harder, ejecting brass at the 1-2 o'clock, and if carrier speed is going too fast bolt over failures etc. I have a hard time believing that's the issue with a 20" barrel and a port that you said measured in the high 80s when it should be in the 90s somewhere for that barrel  |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/19/2023 1:57:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: kurpak]
[#27]
Also to narrow this down, what tube\buffer\spring combo are you now currently running?
You wrote this earlier in the thread: I exchanged gas tubes. I installed a so-called “A5” buffer tube. I went back to a carbine spring and buffer. Just to confirm we're in a good place to test, set up your lower with one of these two combinations: A5 Tube with rifle length spring and rifle length buffer OR Carbine tube with carbine buffer and carbine spring A5 tube with carbine buffer and spring might be part of your problem  For a low gas test, you want your carbine standard weight buffer at 3.0 oz, or rifle buffer with all steel weights and no tungsten (I'm not sure of the exact lightest standard weight for these.) If we can get this sucker running, A5 tube with rifle buffer and spring on a 20" barrel is where you ultimately want to be as that will be the softest shooting best recoil impulse you can get on an AR rifle. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 6:49:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#28]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kurpak: Also to narrow this down, what tube\buffer\spring combo are you now currently running? You wrote this earlier in the thread: I exchanged gas tubes. I installed a so-called “A5” buffer tube. I went back to a carbine spring and buffer. Just to confirm we're in a good place to test, set up your lower with one of these two combinations: A5 Tube with rifle length spring and rifle length buffer OR Carbine tube with carbine buffer and carbine spring A5 tube with carbine buffer and spring might be part of your problem For a low gas test, you want your carbine standard weight buffer at 3.0 oz, or rifle buffer with all steel weights and no tungsten (I'm not sure of the exact lightest standard weight for these.) If we can get this sucker running, A5 tube with rifle buffer and spring on a 20" barrel is where you ultimately want to be as that will be the softest shooting best recoil impulse you can get on an AR rifle. How do you cram a rifle length buffer & spring in an A5 tube? https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/buffer-components/vltor-a5-buffers-2/   Apparently the crybabies @ Vltor don't want to show off their wares. |
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Posted: 6/19/2023 7:01:17 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#29]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By HighpowerRifleBrony: I'm not seeing the BCG travel back all the way. ~0.5" short. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/379478/Short_Stroke_20_inch_jpg-2852797.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/379478/Short_Stroke_20_inch_2_jpg-2852798.JPG Was finally able to watch the videos at 1/4 speed - that's what it looks like to me, the bolt carrier isn't going back far enough. OP, could you post a pic of your upper removed above the lower, and the buffer, BCG, & buffer spring below just above a 12" ruler? UPPER LOWER w/ stock removed or collapsed Spring Buffer BCG Ruler |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 4:03:28 PM EDT
[#30]
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Posted: 6/20/2023 5:05:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#31]
You're still running an A5 buffer tube w/ a carbine buffer. If you ever do get enough gas to get that to cycle you're going to break your lower.
https://www.vltor.com/shop/ar/receiver-extensions/vn-re-a5-a5-receiver-extension/ This receiver extension is designed to work with the VLTOR A5 system. It is longer than a traditional M4/AR15 carbine receiver extension, and is not compatible with standard (3.25″ OAL) carbine buffers or carbine springs. An A5/rifle length spring and VLTOR A5 buffer must be used with this receiver extension. |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 7:05:15 PM EDT
[#32]
No, I removed the A5 buffer based on your previous comments.
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Posted: 6/20/2023 7:21:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#33]
Sorry, it looks like an extra long buffer tube in your pic.
Carbine tube is 7.25" long. Sure looks longer than that in yer pic. You have it screwed all the way in? https://www.strongsidetactical.com/buffer-tube-variations/ |
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Posted: 6/20/2023 8:12:27 PM EDT
[#34]
Yes, that buffer tube measures 7.25" and yes, is turned to the limit [the "A5" buffer tube measures 8.0"]
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Posted: 6/20/2023 8:41:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: backbencher]
[#35]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Yes, that buffer tube measures 7.25" and yes, is turned to the limit [the "A5" buffer tube measures 8.0"] OK. Looking at it in the pic w/ the measuring tape it looks close to 8". I guess start pulling weights out of the buffer, looks like you're severely undergassed. |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2023 12:07:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kurpak]
[#36]
On page one, OP wrote:
"Removed the front sight and inspected the gas port. It would appear to be around 0.086”. I think we discovered the issue on page one, that port should be 092"-.093" (colt spec) for a 20" barrel with rifle gas. If you're only shooting .223 you might even want that a smidge larger. If this were "my" rifle I would put the A5 tube back on, get a proper rifle length buffer in there (lightest weight) and a proper lightweight rifle length spring or maybe tubbs flatwire and see if it runs with the .223 ammo. If not, I'd be on the phone with Aero about shipping them the upper to open up the port, or getting a replacement. Trying to get a 20" with rifle gas to run with a carbine buffer system is kind of sacrilege imo 
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Posted: 6/21/2023 12:28:52 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kurpak: On page one, OP wrote: "Removed the front sight and inspected the gas port. It would appear to be around 0.086”. I think we discovered the issue on page one, that port should be 092"-.093" (colt spec) for a 20" barrel with rifle gas. If you're only shooting .223 you might even want that a smidge larger. If this were "my" rifle I would put the A5 tube back on, get a proper rifle length buffer in there (lightest weight) and a proper lightweight rifle length spring or maybe tubbs flatwire and see if it runs with the .223 ammo. If not, I'd be on the phone with Aero about shipping them the upper to open up the port, or getting a replacement. Trying to get a 20" with rifle gas to run with a carbine buffer system is kind of sacrilege imo Again, how are you getting a rifle buffer w/ rifle spring into an A5 tube? US Army M16A2 in Iraq, late 2011, H6 buffer:  Attached File |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2023 12:29:10 AM EDT
[#38]
More food for thought, BA's 20" port size is .087", Wilson Combat even has one down to .081"
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tXunBDX5Gaz87BqxwNxDUlWNK9nEv-cZEQoLq2JXXrk/edit Definitely would try what I listed above. That upper was designed by Aero to run with their rifle buffer kit, just copy what they're using and I bet it will run fine. https://www.aeroprecisionusa.com/ar15-rifle-buffer-kit-1 |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 6/21/2023 12:36:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: kurpak]
[#39]
When I say rifle buffer I mean A5 buffer (if A5 tube.) The whole Vltor thing always messes with me since I don't really run rifle length stuff.
I thought he said he had an A5 tube earlier so... Rifle tube and rifle buffer, A5 tube and and Vltlor buffer, or carbine tube and buffer. Use the first combo if possible. This thread is hurting my brain
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Posted: 6/21/2023 12:52:43 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By kurpak: When I say rifle buffer I mean A5 buffer (if A5 tube.) The whole Vltor thing always messes with me since I don't really run rifle length stuff. I thought he said he had an A5 tube earlier so... Rifle tube and rifle buffer, A5 tube and and Vltlor buffer, or carbine tube and buffer. Use the first combo if possible. This thread is hurting my brain Just put a rifle tube, spring, and buffer on the lower that Aero designed that upper for and close the thread Yes, he has an A5 buffer tube, but not a Vltor A5 buffer. You keep saying rifle buffer and FW_wife is laughing at me b/c I'm about to lose my shit. Let's get the damn thing running 1st before we go spending OP's money. He's got presumably 55 grn ammo booking 3200 fps from a 20" bbl, so that's M193 spec. It does look from the videos that he's undergassed, hence my suggestion to start pulling weights out of the carbine buffer before he starts drilling the gas port. I got my step-daughter's 27" pencil w/ rifle +3" gas to run on M193 by going to a lightweight carrier & pulling all the weights out of the buffer. I do NOT recommend rifle + 3" gas in 5.56x45mm. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 5:00:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joesmoe3]
[#41]
Just recall - TMI here already - I tried a light weight BCG and three lighter weight carbine buffers, and none of those worked as well as the current setup -- standard weight BCG -- standard weight carbine buffer -- and the slightly shortened carbine spring.
Also installed both H2 and H3 buffers, both with negative outcomes. I did obtain per one post an adjustable buffer kit that is supplied with three each aluminum, steel, and tungsten weights. Have not used that kit yet. |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 5:37:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Just recall - TMI here already - I tried a light weight BCG and three lighter weight carbine buffers, and none of those worked as well as the current setup -- standard weight BCG -- standard weight carbine buffer -- and the slightly shortened carbine spring. Also installed both H2 and H3 buffers, both with negative outcomes. I did obtain per one post an adjustable buffer kit that is supplied with three each aluminum, steel, and tungsten weights. Have not used that kit yet. If you've already tried reducing the reciprocating mass, then it's probably time to drill, baby, drill! 
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Posted: 6/21/2023 10:11:43 PM EDT
[#43]
O.k.
Thank you for sticking through this ! |
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Posted: 6/21/2023 10:45:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Either send it back or send it to ADCO or JT (retro arms works) to get it drilled out.
JT has a super fast turnaround, often times same day. He has done a few things for me and does awesome work. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:28:26 PM EDT
[#45]
Thank you for the stirling recommendation.
Apparently, others read your recommendation, and he's covered up in work. We had a good conversation. In short order, he went through some of the same questions y'all did. He mentioned the possible gas tube misalignment - and suggested a drop check of the bolt carrier minus the bolt. I did that, and it fits fine - no binding at all. He mentioned gas leaking around both ends of the gas tube. In my case, there is clear evidence of carbon around both ends of the gas tube, but nothing out of the ordinary in my experience. He mentioned a manufacturing defect he has seen where the gas port in the sight base is started - as in a pilot hole, but doesn't go all the way through, creating a performance affecting constriction. I checked, and the gas block gas port is nominal. After that, he said he was so busy, and that it sounded like I have the ability to drill the port myself. So I did. From previous discussion, I told y'all (and him) that a Number 44 drill would enter the gas port - making it a nominal 0.086". JT called that "on the small side" and suggested it should be enlarged to 0.093" - that is a Number 42 drill in my set. Firearm is ready for the next trip to the range. |
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Posted: 6/22/2023 1:32:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: Thank you for the stirling recommendation. Apparently, others read your recommendation, and he's covered up in work. We had a good conversation. In short order, he went through some of the same questions y'all did. He mentioned the possible gas tube misalignment - and suggested a drop check of the bolt carrier minus the bolt. I did that, and it fits fine - no binding at all. He mentioned gas leaking around both ends of the gas tube. In my case, there is clear evidence of carbon around both ends of the gas tube, but nothing out of the ordinary in my experience. He mentioned a manufacturing defect he has seen where the gas port in the sight base is started - as in a pilot hole, but doesn't go all the way through, creating a performance affecting constriction. I checked, and the gas block gas port is nominal. After that, he said he was so busy, and that it sounded like I have the ability to drill the port myself. So I did. From previous discussion, I told y'all (and him) that a Number 44 drill would enter the gas port - making it a nominal 0.086". JT called that "on the small side" and suggested it should be enlarged to 0.093" - that is a Number 42 drill in my set. Firearm is ready for the next trip to the range. That's great, JT is an awesome man! look forward to hearing how the new port size works for you. |
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Posted: 7/13/2023 11:00:05 AM EDT
[#47]
Saw this today on another thread and it made me think of this one.
Any updates on this OP? 
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Posted: 7/15/2023 5:17:21 PM EDT
[#48]
UPDATE
Went to the range today for the first time in some weeks. Loaded three rounds in one mag, then five rounds in the second mag - both mags functioned as expected. Fired three rounds, no trigger reset after the third round, inspect and see the bolt is locked back, as expected. Loaded the next mag, fired five rounds, no trigger reset after the fifth found, inspect and see the bolt carrier locked back. Success. THANK YOU ALL for the interest and inputs to this topic. Loaded rounds singly after that, under the wonderful tutelage of a former Army marksman, who was watching through a spotter scope and had me adjust my rear sight (and the way I was holding the rifle) until I was consistently hitting a four inch round hanging metal target on the 100 yard line, and he said, "call it a day." MANY THANKS ! |
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Posted: 7/15/2023 5:31:22 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By joesmoe3: UPDATE Went to the range today for the first time in some weeks. Loaded three rounds in one mag, then five rounds in the second mag - both mags functioned as expected. Fired three rounds, no trigger reset after the third round, inspect and see the bolt is locked back, as expected. Loaded the next mag, fired five rounds, no trigger reset after the fifth found, inspect and see the bolt carrier locked back. Success. THANK YOU ALL for the interest and inputs to this topic. Loaded rounds singly after that, under the wonderful tutelage of a former Army marksman, who was watching through a spotter scope and had me adjust my rear sight (and the way I was holding the rifle) until I was consistently hitting a four inch round hanging metal target on the 100 yard line, and he said, "call it a day." MANY THANKS ! What weight buffer did you end up w/? |
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Posted: 7/15/2023 10:02:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: joesmoe3]
[#50]
In anticipation of the extra energy, I installed a "standard weight" *carbine* buffer ~3.7 oz and a "standard" *carbine* buffer spring.
Thank you. |
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