Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
BCM
User Panel

Page AR-15 » A2 Builds
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Posted: 9/3/2017 2:12:10 PM EDT
Ok guys so a little backstory, I have a couple builds right now, I came to the conclusion none are what I would want to take as my life dependent rifle for different reasons.

I have been thinking through it a long time and I'm thinking my ultimate do everything rifle will be an a2 build, just having those fixed carry handles and front sights with pinned gas blocks ... it doesn't get any more reliable.

I was thinking through optics. To me the carry handle is fine, but I figured having a RDS in addition would have benefits if I ever needed to do some quicker acquisition.

I had a cheap-o a2 carry handle rail mount probably a UTG or something and I was testing some stuff out, first off it obstructs my view of the irons too much IMO. But i was also able to mock it up on my handguard and put the RDS to co-witness, and that set up is great.

So here's what I need help with.

1. What a2 "Gooseneck" mount obstructs the carry handle sight picture the LEAST?
2. If i did do a 'free float' set up, is there a rail reliable enough to put an optic on? Or should I just stick w/ the gooseneck?
3. I was also considering possibly a front sight like the blitzkrieg or some kind of fiber optic sight but still doing research on these.
4. I guess I could use both the improved front sight and RDS.

Anyway, looking forward to some of your opinions.

BTW this is either going to be an 11.5 build or a 16" carbine build ... but likely an 11.5 build, unless I decide a 16" would be better.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 2:47:29 PM EDT
[#1]
I hear what you're saying but I've always liked the heads up position over a carry handle.  Usually you can use the small ap, but I agree its not really optimal.  

I think this is a cool way to go too (1st pic below).  I would think it would just depend on how far you want to shoot it and if your zero will move much.  You could always build it and test it for us.  Most will tell you it's not a great idea but I always wonder if anybody is talking from actual experience, or just repeating stuff they "heard" just cuz it seems like that could be the case.  




And ACOGs go good in a carry handle.  I've never looked through one mounted but I think they're channel is nice and round.  



Link Posted: 9/3/2017 2:52:42 PM EDT
[#2]
The problem I have with optics on top of the carry handle is it's way too uncomfortable. I just tried it before writing this thread.

I am researching the FSP options and it seems like they have limitations with accuracy.

It's coming back to figuring out which "carry handle" mount has the least obstruction.

The trijicon reflex + carry handle mount seems pretty bomb proof.

I guess worse case scenario is just no optic.

In a survival situation/shtf I'd imagine the majority of my time will be evading people, it's a total "defensive" situation. The only time I see me using the RDS would be for a hairy situation where I need to react quickly and have fast target acquisition, having that red dot is much easier to find and point than irons. Thats really the only value I see in it.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 4:13:35 PM EDT
[#3]
RX01NSN in gooseneck mount.


ETA  - able to still see irons through the sight and can remove sight quickly if needed.

Link Posted: 9/3/2017 4:41:37 PM EDT
[#4]
Aimpoint factory goose neck mount are exerwhere and cheap.  Look for the later versions that have additional securement on front for the carry handle.  They are rock solid and proven.  

I'm an Aimpoint fan, so my nod would go with with Aimpoint.  

Another option would be to install a railed handguard.... you could go with a quality floated handguard/rail system and simply mount the Aimpoint to the floated handguard.  Save a little weight, improve accuracy (which I feel would be negligible, but the internet commandos may suggest otherwise), and have additional mounting options if you want to toss on a flashlight or bi-pod.

ACOG scopes mounted to the carry handle are cool.... but cheek weld sucks.  I'm not a fan.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 5:01:52 PM EDT
[#5]
Looke at the compact ACOG's and the ACOGS.   I have a 1.5x and a 3x compact ACOG they are designed to attach to the carry handle as is no adaptor or mount needed. This is the go to as far as durability its the toy the Marine Corp uses.

https://swfa.com/trijicon-2x20-compact-acog-rifle-scope-4.html

https://swfa.com/trijicon-4x32-acog-rifle-scope-60.html   this has the adapter to go to flat top on it but you can take off the adapter and run it on an A2 Carry Handle.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 6:14:47 PM EDT
[#6]
I'm somewhat price concious.

Things that are deal breakers are scope on the carry handle, b/c of cheek weld.

Another deal breaker is a mount that obstructs Iron views alot.

TBH the winning solution seems to be the reflex, especially since it requires no battery, however the aimpoint mounts are cheap which is crazy, and an aimpoint is totally reliable too.

For those who have used both goose neck mounts can you tell me what it looks like when looking through irons?

I know with my cheap-o scope carry handle mount, I am just barely able to see the front sight, it cuts off a lot of it and I can just make out the very top. Are the trijicon and aimpoint mounts like this?
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 6:22:32 PM EDT
[#7]



Just JTF2 it. This is how the Canadian SF guy were running optics on the fixed carry handle C8 carbines. Just use a Canadian KAC RAS or normal RAS. The Canadian version just has the extra clamp on the bottom rail section. Everything co-witness with the iron sights.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 6:25:31 PM EDT
[#8]
Acog is the only shtf optic I want fits great on an A2. I just don't have a picture of mine for some reason

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 6:37:26 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/09/57/9c/09579c0394e35069f77f63de8cce848a.jpg
https://scontent-sea1-1.cdninstagram.com/t51.2885-15/s480x480/e15/11272451_928204430577405_459246514_n.jpg?ig_cache_key=NTMzMzg4MjUwNzQ1NjY3NzI0.2

Just JTF2 it. This is how the Canadian SF guy were running optics on the fixed carry handle C8 carbines. Just use a Canadian KAC RAS or normal RAS. The Canadian version just has the extra clamp on the bottom rail section. Everything co-witness with the iron sights.
View Quote
This is definately the best "sight picture" ... i guess the weakness I see is it losing zero and not being as sturdy as a carry handle mount.

Agree, disagree?
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 6:56:49 PM EDT
[#10]




Best I could do with iPhone quickly.
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 8:05:44 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Looks pretty good thank you!

Question for ya though, I haven't ever seen a reflex like that in person. How does it compare to a red dot?
Link Posted: 9/3/2017 10:20:35 PM EDT
[#12]
An Aimpoint is superior to the Reflex.

I wouldn't mount an option of to the handguard unless it was fully floated (not a drop in set of rails).

Ex-USGI Aimpoint s, some with the original box and goose neck mounts, are all over eBay.  Pick one up and see how it works for you.  If you don't like the goose neck, then consider floating your handguard.

That said....... what makes you think that an A2 is a superior SHtF fan configuration over a M4 rec over with quality BUiS like a MATECH or KAC USMC?  I can assure you first hand through two combat deployments that an M4 with a MATECH is more than capable of serving as a solid and dependable iron sight configuration if your optic goes tits up.
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 12:14:13 AM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
An Aimpoint is superior to the Reflex.

I wouldn't mount an option of to the handguard unless it was fully floated (not a drop in set of rails).

Ex-USGI Aimpoint s, some with the original box and goose neck mounts, are all over eBay.  Pick one up and see how it works for you.  If you don't like the goose neck, then consider floating your handguard.

That said....... what makes you think that an A2 is a superior SHtF fan configuration over a M4 rec over with quality BUiS like a MATECH or KAC USMC?  I can assure you first hand through two combat deployments that an M4 with a MATECH is more than capable of serving as a solid and dependable iron sight configuration if your optic goes tits up.  
View Quote
Well I don't know for sure .. you have more experience then I do.

I guess i just figured that the a2 fixed carry handle upper with the pinned front sight is just a full self contained unit which at its very worst would still work.

When I think about other set ups .. you are dealing with bolt ons, the Matech seems cool, but doesn't have a smaller aperature and wears out I heard, the KAC seems great, but again maybe not as durable as a fixed carry handle.

Lastly I feel like the carry handle can be valuable.

Anyway I ordered the aimpoint mount on ebay i'm going to check it out.

Happy to hear what your preferred set up would be especially since you have a lot more experience than I do in the real world with these things.

I'm just looking for something bullet proof that will last and work basically forever.

And remember, I'm not thinking about this as being an offensive rifle, literally just a rifle that you can have for years and not worry too much about it failing.
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 12:17:35 PM EDT
[#14]
A cut down carry handle is pretty robust.  And a DD rear fixed 1.5.  Only thing I really don't like about the DD 1.5 is the aperture is a lot further forward than where a carry handle is normally and the sight picture is a lot different.  Less light coming through the small ap and it's really not optimal.  Although if you just use the ghostring mostly, it's pretty darn good that way.  

But I'm all for carry handles.  But I'm different in you in that I actually don't mind optics on top.  Plus I shoot irons mostly.  

DD rear sight:



Cut Carry Handle:



Link Posted: 9/4/2017 12:38:08 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
A cut down carry handle is pretty robust.  And a DD rear fixed 1.5.  Only thing I really don't like about the DD 1.5 is the aperture is a lot further forward than where a carry handle is normally and the sight picture is a lot different.  Less light coming through the small ap and it's really not optimal.  Although if you just use the ghostring mostly, it's pretty darn good that way.  

But I'm all for carry handles.  But I'm different in you in that I actually don't mind optics on top.  Plus I shoot irons mostly.  

DD rear sight:

http://i.imgur.com/Zai2E15.jpg

Cut Carry Handle:

http://i.imgur.com/asI6OF9.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/AQOcJCF.jpg
View Quote
It's funny I watched the DD torture test that LV did .. i saw it a while ago but was good to watch again, that DD rear sight did awesome. I personally think the cut carry handle looks better than the DD but w/e.

This is a serious option I'm considering.

I'm just wondering if I would miss the carry handle.
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 1:35:52 PM EDT
[#16]
I'm getting ready to put my DD on the EE.  I've only used it once but I really don't like the sight picture being forward like that.  But I've never heard anyone else complain about it.......  Weight is another consideration.  The DD weighs 1.7 ounces  A cut Carry Handle is around 5 ounces.  For me it makes a difference, but I've used a CCH quite a bit and like it a lot.    

That being said, I think if I was going to choose a favorite config for a SHTF type gun, it would be an A1 upper with an A2 ap.   As long as the barrel didn't throw POI terribly from one round to the next.  If it did, then I'd rather have an A2 upper.    But 723 FTW.   That's my ultimate build.   With a Burris FF3 up on top.  
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 6:52:42 PM EDT
[#17]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I'm getting ready to put my DD on the EE.  I've only used it once but I really don't like the sight picture being forward like that.  But I've never heard anyone else complain about it.......  Weight is another consideration.  The DD weighs 1.7 ounces  A cut Carry Handle is around 5 ounces.  For me it makes a difference, but I've used a CCH quite a bit and like it a lot.    

That being said, I think if I was going to choose a favorite config for a SHTF type gun, it would be an A1 upper with an A2 ap.   As long as the barrel didn't throw POI terribly from one round to the next.  If it did, then I'd rather have an A2 upper.    But 723 FTW.   That's my ultimate build.   With a Burris FF3 up on top.  
View Quote
I don't know the nuances between a1 and a2 aside from the windage adjustment.

And yea for SHTF i'm thinking a very similar build. I have a 11.5" barrel and 16" barrel on the way with a fixed carry handle upper, got to decide which one I will put it on.

I love the look of the guns w/ carry handles and optics on them, but in practice it hurts my neck.

That's why I am digging these carry handle gooseneck mounts.

A really good fiber optic front sight would be great too but most of what I've see have limitations, mainly in the precision adjustment.
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 7:00:06 PM EDT
[#18]
The only fiber optic sight I have experience with is a little .22 single shot.  And it was rounded on top.  I sucked with it.  But it wasn't the gun because when I put a scope on it, it shot just fine.  My guess is I would've done better with a flat post.  Or something.

That gooseneck mount above looks like it doesn't take up too much of the sight picture.  That seems like a good option.  I've never used one.
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 8:48:04 PM EDT
[#19]
Forgot about this photo.  

Link Posted: 9/4/2017 9:42:22 PM EDT
[#20]
it all works!!!
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 10:48:18 PM EDT
[#21]
Link Posted: 9/4/2017 11:32:03 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416992/100_0110a-299420.jpg


There you have it.

OP, PM me if you want one. I have a few extra Aimpoint milsurp mounts, I'd part with one.
View Quote
I don't know that roll mark on your rifle.
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 12:41:59 AM EDT
[#23]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I don't know that roll mark on your rifle.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/416992/100_0110a-299420.jpg


There you have it.

OP, PM me if you want one. I have a few extra Aimpoint milsurp mounts, I'd part with one.
I don't know that roll mark on your rifle.
Olympic arms?
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 12:48:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Olympic arms?
View Quote
Just googled it and you are correct.  Funny that I have always heard about them but I have never laid eyes on one.
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 12:55:50 AM EDT
[#25]
It's not as high as it seems. I feel like it actually gives me a more heads up shooting position. I'd really like to try a TA-44 on my 733 build. I think that would be a sweet setup.

Attachment Attached File
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 10:59:15 AM EDT
[#26]
For me it's too high, i have a mount like that wit ha scope and it just feels like my head is floating
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 12:27:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's not as high as it seems. I feel like it actually gives me a more heads up shooting position. I'd really like to try a TA-44 on my 733 build. I think that would be a sweet setup.

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/154165/IMG_1363-299518.JPG
View Quote
HOT HOT HOT.   Oh man I'd bet I'd love shooting that set up!!!!!  

You're the only one I've ever seen clone that gun so far.  You da man.
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 1:14:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Link Posted: 9/5/2017 5:35:39 PM EDT
[#29]
I agree with using the Aimpoint goose neck mount. I have picked up several for $5 each at gun shows. I have them on several A1 and A2 carry handle mounts. Here is one of mine with a Holosun red dot. The other mount has an old Primary Arms red dot with a low mount. Both work well and enable you to see the iron sights easily.
Link Posted: 9/6/2017 12:19:36 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
I agree with using the Aimpoint goose neck mount. I have picked up several for $5 each at gun shows. I have them on several A1 and A2 carry handle mounts. Here is one of mine with a Holosun red dot. The other mount has an old Primary Arms red dot with a low mount. Both work well and enable you to see the iron sights easily.
https://i.imgur.com/BVvP2JD.jpg
View Quote
I am thinking this is going to be the perfect set up .. with the holosun.

Are you using a circle dot or standard red dot?

I ordered the gooseneck on ebay for cheap, once it comes i'll try it out.
Link Posted: 9/6/2017 10:28:30 AM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I am thinking this is going to be the perfect set up .. with the holosun.

Are you using a circle dot or standard red dot?

I ordered the gooseneck on ebay for cheap, once it comes i'll try it out.
View Quote
I use the single 2MOA dot. The circle dot is great for flat top receivers because it helps you locate the dot more quickly. But I found that the circle  really slowed me down and created a problem when looking through a rear sight aperture because I always wanted to center the red circle in the rear sight aperture circle. It was easier to just use the single 2MOA dot than try to teach myself not to look at the circle.
Link Posted: 9/6/2017 11:10:06 AM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


I use the single 2MOA dot. The circle dot is great for flat top receivers because it helps you locate the dot more quickly. But I found that the circle  really slowed me down and created a problem when looking through a rear sight aperture because I always wanted to center the red circle in the rear sight aperture circle. It was easier to just use the single 2MOA dot than try to teach myself not to look at the circle.
View Quote
Awesome point! And I'm glad you tried both lol.

I'm totally cool w/ the one dot .. it's cheaper too!
Link Posted: 9/6/2017 10:37:24 PM EDT
[#33]
They make this thing called a Delta cheek piece dating way back that solves your optics height/cheek weld issues.

Link Posted: 9/6/2017 10:40:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
They make this thing called a Delta cheek piece dating way back that solves your optics height/cheek weld issues.

https://image.sportsmansguide.com/adimgs/l/9/90594_ts.jpg
View Quote
seems like it would help w/ the optic, but then what about irons?
Link Posted: 9/7/2017 7:03:52 PM EDT
[#35]
My aimpoint mount came from Ebay .. I'm digging it! It's light, it doesn't obstruct the view of the front site too much and the red dot perfectly co-witnesses. I think this is the method I'm going to go.

Link Posted: 9/7/2017 7:26:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
It's not as high as it seems. I feel like it actually gives me a more heads up shooting position.
View Quote
Hmmm…. obviously, you have never seen combat.  

In regard to the goose neck, look for the later Aimppint mounts with the additional pint of contact of the forward portion of the receiver carry handle (above gas tube) typically issued with the USGI CompM4 optics.  

…. You guys are killing me, you are guys and making me want to build an A2 carbine with floated hand guard and Aimpoint.  I think a Comp M2 or M4 would be better for this application than a micro.  The larger field of view will be better suited taking into regard the vision obstruction associated with the A2 carry handle.  


EDIT:  Nope, just did a quick mock up.  The rear sight aperture obscures the red dot too much.  I don't see where the advantage would be over a flat top with solid BUIS.
Link Posted: 9/7/2017 8:56:20 PM EDT
[#37]
There might not be an advantage.

A rock solid BUIS w mounted red dot is probably the best solution.

If a solid BUIS can compete toe to toe with a fixed a2 rear sight, then that is probably the better option.
Link Posted: 9/11/2017 3:00:02 PM EDT
[#38]
No optics needed on a 727, just run it

Colt 4x is kinda cool though.
Link Posted: 9/11/2017 3:05:19 PM EDT
[#39]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
That's Smoot!

RIP
Link Posted: 10/7/2017 11:24:35 AM EDT
[#40]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
RX01NSN in gooseneck mount.


ETA  - able to still see irons through the sight and can remove sight quickly if needed.

http://ultimak.com/gallery/artrij.jpg
View Quote
I run this setup on two Pistols.   A2 cary handle with 10.5 Fixed FSB.   One is the big 6.5 MOA dot and the other is the Triangle    Great little guns for defense.   I'm not looking for distance with them just quick target picture and reliability.
Page AR-15 » A2 Builds
AR Sponsor: bravocompany
Close Join Our Mail List to Stay Up To Date! Win a FREE Membership!

Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!

You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.


By signing up you agree to our User Agreement. *Must have a registered ARFCOM account to win.
Top Top