User Panel
User Panel
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AL, USA
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Posted: 9/13/2013 2:56:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: BushBoar]
So I've been on the forum long enough to know that nothing with an A2 upper will ever really be "accepted" on the retro forum (I have an early 604,late 603 and an XM177 clone so I understand why). The A2 photo thread we have is cool but for me there is just too much really modern stuff ( magpul etc.) . In my mind there is a lot of "vintage" A2 material out there (Desert Storm era A2's, late 80's gov't carbines, 723's 733's 727's etc.). So my question is really for the mod's ... would a "vintage A2 " photo thread be in order on this forum , I know the retro word really means A1 to most but maybe vintage fits guys like me who clone their desert storm etc. guns from the past. Input please.... Michael
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Posted: 9/13/2013 4:00:21 PM EDT
[#1]
Originally Posted By weath017:
So I've been on the forum long enough to know that nothing with an A2 upper will ever really be "accepted" on the retro forum (I have an early 604,late 603 and an XM177 clone so I understand why). The A2 photo thread we have is cool but for me there is just too much really modern stuff ( magpul etc.) . In my mind there is a lot of "vintage" A2 material out there (Desert Storm era A2's, late 80's gov't carbines, 723's 733's 727's etc.). So my question is really for the mod's ... would a "vintage A2 " photo thread be in order on this forum , I know the retro word really means A1 to most but maybe vintage fits guys like me who clone their desert storm etc. guns from the past. Input please.... Michael +1 for "vintage" A2 photo thread 
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Posted: 9/13/2013 4:33:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Get one started and I'll tack it.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2013 10:15:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: weath017]
[#3]
So here goes..... My Desert Storm Era A2. McKay Grey Lower , all other parts are grey Colt, big head forward assist and all. People talk trash about the A2's but they shoot like a dream and this one is my go to gun over the other AR's that I own.
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Posted: 9/14/2013 11:44:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Here is mine...Colt 6,3xx,xxx serial..with M203 and MILES gear..early '92 Ie Shima....  |
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Posted: 9/14/2013 3:57:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Pro2ndAm]
[#5]
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2013 4:36:59 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#6]
Great thread idea!
I gotta get mine out, clean it up and take some good pics of it. 
I'll be honest, I'd take the weight of an A1 over an A2 any day. BUT, I way prefer A2 sights and front handgaurds. I don't think the extra barrel thickness at the end is necessary and I prefer the length of an A1 buttstock. So my ultimate is somewhere in between. A1 and A2. But yeah, I've always been a little sore that they don't just allow us in the retro forum. I mean it's rare you even see a car from the late 80's early 90's on the road. But they want their forum to stay "Vietnam Era" I guess. And not be tainted with much less "interesting" times.     
As I've said before, us A2 guys are the red headed step child of Arfcom. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 9/14/2013 5:03:29 PM EDT
[#7]
A Colt and a couple of FNs:
An early M4 
Working on a couple of Colts |
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Posted: 9/15/2013 12:51:15 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA:
But yeah, I've always been a little sore that they don't just allow us in the retro forum. I mean it's rare you even see a car from the late 80's early 90's on the road. But they want their forum to stay "Vietnam Era" I guess. And not be tainted with much less "interesting" times.
As I've said before, us A2 guys are the red headed step child of Arfcom. Being the fence sitter that I am (I post in "regular" AR Discussions, Retro, and the A2 Forum  ), I understand why Retro-land wanted to expel us.
The only thing that bothers me sometimes is that the A2 Forum has become kind of a backwater "dumping ground" for franken-guns of all sorts with A2 uppers. But hey, the rules aren't mine to make. I do like the historical threads, though, and wish there was more traffic in here. I definitely approve of this thread, though! Gonna have to go get some pictures of my A2!
~Augee |
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Posted: 9/15/2013 10:04:38 AM EDT
[#9]
I mainly hang out in the retro forum but i'd love to see some vintage A2 sneaking in :)
BTW nice rifles everyone. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2013 4:27:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#10]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Augee:
Being the fence sitter that I am (I post in "regular" AR Discussions, Retro, and the A2 Forum ), I understand why Retro-land wanted to expel us.
The only thing that bothers me sometimes is that the A2 Forum has become kind of a backwater "dumping ground" for franken-guns of all sorts with A2 uppers. But hey, the rules aren't mine to make. I do like the historical threads, though, and wish there was more traffic in here. I definitely approve of this thread, though! Gonna have to go get some pictures of my A2!
~Augee Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Augee:
Originally Posted By JJREA:
But yeah, I've always been a little sore that they don't just allow us in the retro forum. I mean it's rare you even see a car from the late 80's early 90's on the road. But they want their forum to stay "Vietnam Era" I guess. And not be tainted with much less "interesting" times.
As I've said before, us A2 guys are the red headed step child of Arfcom. Being the fence sitter that I am (I post in "regular" AR Discussions, Retro, and the A2 Forum ), I understand why Retro-land wanted to expel us.
The only thing that bothers me sometimes is that the A2 Forum has become kind of a backwater "dumping ground" for franken-guns of all sorts with A2 uppers. But hey, the rules aren't mine to make. I do like the historical threads, though, and wish there was more traffic in here. I definitely approve of this thread, though! Gonna have to go get some pictures of my A2!
~Augee Not sure why (responding to the red part). I would say that the people that are into A2's, that wanted to be part of the Retro forum, are into the "retro" aspect of A2's. If someone wants to post about their tacticool A2, they can just participate in the AR discussions. Sure' they'll get the, get a flat top comment from all the "experts", but there are some guys that have some good carry handled AR's of more modern set up. I think I particularly remember Edwin07 (not sure if it's his name exactly) have a nice pic of a carry handled set up with an ACOG on the handle. Anyways..... My point is, the weapons used in desert storm are definitely not 60's vintage, but the are pretty much looked down on in AR discussions. And it's all about the latest and greatest there. |
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Posted: 9/16/2013 10:52:15 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA:
Not sure why (responding to the red part). I would say that the people that are into A2's, that wanted to be part of the Retro forum, are into the "retro" aspect of A2's. If someone wants to post about their tacticool A2, they can just participate in the AR discussions. Sure' they'll get the, get a flat top comment from all the "experts", but there are some guys that have some good carry handled AR's of more modern set up. I think I particularly remember Edwin07 (not sure if it's his name exactly) have a nice pic of a carry handled set up with an ACOG on the handle. Anyways..... My point is, the weapons used in desert storm are definitely not 60's vintage, but the are pretty much looked down on in AR discussions. And it's all about the latest and greatest there. The arguments made were that the A2 was still in widespread current service - neverminding the 601s, 602s, and 604s still floating around in AF armories stateside, the fact that the A2 was still being deployed overseas to combat zones, albeit in a support role, to some, disqualified it as "Retro." The other big one was the concern about "slippage." That allowing the A2 into the Retro forum would introduce further arguments that early M4s and M16A4s should be allowed in "Retro," because they were not "the latest and greatest." I did not personally agree, and believed, and still believe that discussion of "historical" A2s in proper context should be allowed in the Retro Forum, but in the end, it wasn't my decision to make. To be fair, I think that the mods had a difficult decision in terms of "where do you place the cut off?" Incidentally, I and some others have then suggested that threads like the "1993 somalia" thread would be more appropriately placed in the A2 Forum, but once again, it's not my decision to make. I suppose in some sense, the A2 doesn't have the "romance" of a major conflict like Vietnam, the closest thing is the Gulf War, which has been overshadowed to some extent by GWOT in the social zeitgeist. I can only think, or perhaps hope, however, that the A2 Forum will one day grow to be a comparable place to the Retro Forum as times goes on. I remember, as I'm sure you still do, when the Retro Forum was awash in franken-builds, black A2 lowers and C7 uppers with 16" carbine barrels, the difference between a 603 and 604 upper was not in the common consciousness, it took a while for it to become what many now see as a place of historical study and such close "clones." And we do have some good, historical threads on here once in a while, the C7/8 thread is still an excellent collection of knowledge about a lesser known variant, and the braceman lowers and close clones are making a good showing and always draw good comments. I swear, I'll post pictures of my A2 soon!
~Augee |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/16/2013 11:56:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#12]
I don't blame the mods at all. It was apparent that there were certain retro forum goers that really didn't like the addition of A2 threads. Even the historical ones. If my recollection is correct. Seemed like most were on the fence or neutral and there were a few more vocal ones about it. Again, just going by memory.
Like you said, not our decision. I was going to say the opposite of what you said, but as my Mom says, "My crystal ball is broken". I was going to say I'd be surprised if it picks up in here. Ever. For some reason I just don't see it happening. But I could be wrong. Maybe in 5 years or so there will be more vets or something that carried an A2 and want to build one up again. Whether they be from late 80's or 90's or even guys from the GWOT that had them. I remember seeing a lot of Marines with them early on. And then there are the support people that might have handled them quite a bit. Or even in boot camp. Etc. Etc. Who knows. Doesn't really matter. Just something to talk about I guess. Thanks for keeping it interesting. I have mine up and getting ready to clean up good and take pics too. And then I think I'll shoot it. Whatever happened to Quib? He'd be all over this. Maybe. I remember he had a few good 20" A2 threads. I think he had some experience with them in the military. I think he's more my age. Desert storm era. My recollection is he served there. Or at least during it. |
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Posted: 9/17/2013 12:19:39 AM EDT
[#13]
Like I said - it might be wishful thinking more than anything else.
My M16A2 build is not fully "period correct," though. I'm using a crush washer instead of peel washers. 
This should be remedied soon when I get over my laziness, though.
~Augee |
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Posted: 9/17/2013 8:58:45 AM EDT
[#14]
Changed title and tacked. Discussion is ok but please don't derail the pic thread.
Thanks!
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Posted: 9/18/2013 5:13:41 PM EDT
[#15]
A few hours ago:   |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 9/18/2013 5:39:39 PM EDT
[#16]
Love those shiny hand guards !
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/19/2013 12:40:22 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By BushBoar:
Changed title and tacked. Discussion is ok but please don't derail the pic thread. Thanks! Sorry bout that. Got carried away: 
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Posted: 9/19/2013 2:50:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Augee]
[#18]
As promised, photos of my M16A2 clone:
Rifle is all Colt, minus the lower receiver/LPK which is a NoDak Spud NDS-A1 lower receiver. Colt "C M" markings on the upper: 
It's hard to see here, but the proper barrel markings: 
Also visible, and much more clearly is the totally, heinously, and terribly wrong crush washer that I need to replace with a peel washer. Please accept my apologies.
The sling is a standard USGI silent sling installed with a USGI top sling adapter, using the wire loop for the FSB and the strap for the stock. I'm considering replacing the stock adapter with the simpler, more common, and frankly, more functional 550 cord and 100MPH tape "adapter." Front loop: 
Stock adapter, also visible is the blue paint pen rack number, "132": 
I eventually would like to have Ident or someone similar engrave the NDS-A1 lower receiver as an early Colt M16A1, marked both "AR15" and "M16A1," then use a stamp kit and overstamp the "1" in "M16A1" with a crooked "2," and "X" out the "AUTO" marking and stamp "BURST" as well as engraving the right side selector markings, and stamp "A N A D" rebuild markings on the right side of the mag well so the whole rifle will look like an Army rebuild. The only other change to be made besides the peel washer is to find an ANAD rebuild-style selector/safety with the raised "notch" to install in place of the Colt "no tick" selector that's currently installed. She may be old-school, but she's still a great rifle and a lot of fun to shoot, and I still break in beginners on her, and she gets fired more than my M16A4 and XM16E1 clone combined, and is my current "iron sights trainer" mule that I shoot with when I want to return to the basics and fundamentals and shoot open sights, which I cycle through my training routines. Run and gun and drills are all well and good, but it's important to return to the fundamentals once in a while, and the A2 is usually what I do it with! ~Augee |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2013 4:01:35 PM EDT
[#19]
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WI, USA
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Posted: 9/20/2013 4:08:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#20]
I guess the first three aren't vintage as far as when. But the rifles might be. |
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Posted: 10/4/2013 6:07:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Originally Posted By weath017:
I know the retro word really means A1 to most but maybe vintage fits guys like me who clone their desert storm etc. guns from the past. Input please.... Michael As a guy who started out in the military with an A1 and who has been here for a number of years, I am still amazed by what I see as a mindset from some posters that any iron sight A1 or A2 is at best a novel antique. I remember back then it was the short barrel stuff with a collapsible stock that was different or weird, because it was mainly a throw-back to limited run Viet Nam era variants I guess that the rise of modern tech, collapsible stocks, rail systems etc has been around long enough that the younger guys on this board know of nothing else. |
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MO, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2013 9:32:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Augee:
As promised, photos of my M16A2 clone: http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/951F1121-88E2-4A6B-9454-02E41C11F152-12171-00000B4E5A02D686_zps1de82b51.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/3BEA0D0A-8803-4828-8EC1-700186404000-12171-00000B4E69447695_zps5c922991.jpg http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/C6FC1670-670D-4EF5-A219-50564F00AB84-12171-00000B4E7B9A4640_zps1d3565a2.jpg Rifle is all Colt, minus the lower receiver/LPK which is a NoDak Spud NDS-A1 lower receiver. Colt "C M" markings on the upper: http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/DC310223-65CB-419B-AA2D-D8860E6DEADA-12171-00000B4E5F494165_zps06ff297d.jpg It's hard to see here, but the proper barrel markings: http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/0E6565D1-362C-403B-9CD5-BE9D2DA1C666-12171-00000B4E641A131B_zpsc0fcd334.jpg Also visible, and much more clearly is the totally, heinously, and terribly wrong crush washer that I need to replace with a peel washer. Please accept my apologies.
The sling is a standard USGI silent sling installed with a USGI top sling adapter, using the wire loop for the FSB and the strap for the stock. I'm considering replacing the stock adapter with the simpler, more common, and frankly, more functional 550 cord and 100MPH tape "adapter." Front loop: http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/1EC26A05-A2A4-407E-93D3-706A2499AC97-12171-00000B4E7680D54B_zps61eed52e.jpg Stock adapter, also visible is the blue paint pen rack number, "132": http://i1239.photobucket.com/albums/ff502/augeekim/126BFCF8-FB83-4A94-B7A6-AB6C9E177056-12171-00000B4E70E84E8B_zps520c1aa1.jpg I eventually would like to have Ident or someone similar engrave the NDS-A1 lower receiver as an early Colt M16A1, marked both "AR15" and "M16A1," then use a stamp kit and overstamp the "1" in "M16A1" with a crooked "2," and "X" out the "AUTO" marking and stamp "BURST" as well as engraving the right side selector markings, and stamp "A N A D" rebuild markings on the right side of the mag well so the whole rifle will look like an Army rebuild. The only other change to be made besides the peel washer is to find an ANAD rebuild-style selector/safety with the raised "notch" to install in place of the Colt "no tick" selector that's currently installed. She may be old-school, but she's still a great rifle and a lot of fun to shoot, and I still break in beginners on her, and she gets fired more than my M16A4 and XM16E1 clone combined, and is my current "iron sights trainer" mule that I shoot with when I want to return to the basics and fundamentals and shoot open sights, which I cycle through my training routines. Run and gun and drills are all well and good, but it's important to return to the fundamentals once in a while, and the A2 is usually what I do it with! ~Augee question : wouldn't a lock washer be more correct than a crush washer ? my FN barrel came with a lock washer . just wondered . |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 10/9/2013 11:11:35 PM EDT
[#23]
"Lock" style washers were used in the A1 series rifles ( the birdcage flash hider did not need to be exactly timed) the peel washer was used on the A2 series because the flashider did need to be timed, the crush washer was brought out because the peel washer was a raging pain in the a$$ to deal with. I have seen crush washers used on late a2's and most a4's but to me the peel washer is the iconic look for the A2. Michael
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WI, USA
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Posted: 10/10/2013 2:05:42 PM EDT
[#24]
I forgot to say, that is really nice Augee!!
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Posted: 10/14/2013 6:58:50 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 10/28/2013 5:10:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Sgt911]
[#26]
moved
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WI, USA
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Posted: 10/28/2013 6:01:19 PM EDT
[#27]
Oooh yeah!!!
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MD, USA
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Posted: 11/9/2013 5:40:32 AM EDT
[#28]
Well to better put it, I should be called the A2/A3 forum. Remember A3's
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MO, USA
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Posted: 11/20/2013 11:48:11 PM EDT
[#29]
Love this thread, and the A2 forum as well. I was in the USAF from 2003-2011, and can indeed confirm that many of the M16 A2's I held had the "1" stamped over by a "2"
 . I converted a post ban Armalite M15 A2 to a close A1 but sold it a few years ago . After Sandy Hook I realized I needed to get off my ass and get another one before they get banned. Fortunately, no ban was enacted and the panic started to subside, so I could start collecting reasonably priced parts. I'll post some pics of my rifle here probably this weekend, or maybe Friday night. But here are some specs:
Anderson Mfg lower DPMS LPK CMMG BCG DPMS gas tube Keyhole "F" upper DPMS A2 style HBAR mil spec used handguards and stock set mil spec new flash hider, delta ring assy, ejection port cover, and FA I is a nice shooter and pretty close to most of the A2's I handled during my USAF time. I even have a surplus mag that says "For Government and law enforcement use only" to go with it. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/21/2013 1:44:27 PM EDT
[#30]
Thank you for your service and looking forward to seeing your rifle!
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GU, USA
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Posted: 11/22/2013 8:15:08 AM EDT
[#31]
some nice a2s here
 heres my contribution, actually original colt sporter light weight.....not really lighweight anymore with current mods
also have a colt a2 HBar, but wearing some A1 furniture and not sure if i should post those pics. 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/23/2013 1:30:11 PM EDT
[Last Edit: JJREA]
[#32]
She's purdy! Post away with the other one. I'm not a mod around here, but this forum needs all the posting it can get. If it has a2 sights than there's no reason not to post it here.
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GU, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2013 8:27:26 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By JJREA:
She's purdy! Post away with the other one. I'm not a mod around here, but this forum needs all the posting it can get. If it has a2 sights than there's no reason not to post it here. thanks jjrea, have the original a2 furniture but to lazy to change them out 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 11/29/2013 2:28:23 PM EDT
[#34]
Nice. That will make some people's brain hurt. LOL.
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AL, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2013 1:15:30 PM EDT
[#35]
It's been awhile since I posted any pictures of my "vintage" projects but here is my latest completed project. It is a grey FN A2. It's built on a grey McKay lower with an FNMI marked barrel, FK marked upper and FN marked BCG with MPF bolt. All FN and all grey. I just really dig the Desert Storm Era guns. Michael
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AL, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2013 1:30:49 PM EDT
[#36]
I figured I would post a couple of pictures of some " in progress " builds I have going. The first is my 723 build. It is a Colt upper, Colt barrel and Colt bolt group. Big head forward assist, colt six hole handguards etc. It is all grey and even zeroed. I had some A2 receivers produced with my company logo and they are at US anno right now getting the pre ban grey treatment. The serial number will even be 723. I have a two position Colt tube and an N1 stock waiting on the lower.
This is my Colt rat rifle , basically a beat the hell up A2. All Colt and all grey ( what's left of it). Same lower will go on this one but it will be serial # 701 of course. I will have to come up with some sort of process to match the wear of the upper. Anyway I will post better pics in a few weeks when the lowers show up and I get everything assembled. Michael 
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WI, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2013 6:22:14 PM EDT
[#37]
Wouldn't the carbine be a 6520?
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AL, USA
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Posted: 12/15/2013 7:26:39 PM EDT
[#38]
As soon as the form 1 arrives it will be 14.5 and that will be the difference. Michael
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Posted: 12/28/2013 1:57:57 AM EDT
[#39]
Supposed to get my my new FN A2 barrel and stripped upper sometime next week to mate with my Mega Lower. I do need to find a FN BCG and surplus A2 hand guards.
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Posted: 12/29/2013 3:56:01 PM EDT
[Last Edit: USMC88-93]
[#40]
1994 Camp Pendleton
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Posted: 1/11/2014 3:11:17 AM EDT
[#41]
1989 Camp Pendleton
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Posted: 1/11/2014 3:22:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Also camp Pendleton!
 Try to guess the year! |
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Posted: 1/11/2014 3:27:08 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By imdBman: 1989 Camp Pendletonhttp://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj290/imdbman65/CampPendleton90wM203.jpg |
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Posted: 1/11/2014 1:37:22 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Madcap72:
Also camp Pendleton! https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/s720x720/564808_10151772853130346_602581833_n.jpg Try to guess the year! My guess would be '85 or '86
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Posted: 1/11/2014 10:32:55 PM EDT
[#45]
I guess 87-90. Speednlace boots showed up after 87.
My pic was during a patrol. |
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OR, USA
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Posted: 1/12/2014 2:36:03 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryOriginally Posted By Madcap72:
Also camp Pendleton! https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc3/s720x720/564808_10151772853130346_602581833_n.jpg Try to guess the year! Reminds me of the "Shelf" at MCT/SOI. Late 80's, early 90's. |
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WI, USA
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Posted: 1/13/2014 3:54:40 PM EDT
[#47]
91 ??????
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Posted: 1/25/2014 3:24:19 PM EDT
[Last Edit: sandsock]
[#48]
BEVERLY BEARCAT Operational Readiness Inspection 1998 courtesy of the old af.mil websit
  Something else that I picked up since then courtesy of the Navy  |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/1/2014 10:27:38 PM EDT
[#49]
1991 April, Iraq - mix-match uniform mix-match helo's. Yes, we kept our white armsroom stock stickers on them throughout. Don't ask, but we also brought our M3a1 greaseguns in theatre, Probably the only unit that had them. 19th En, 194th Separate Armored Bde. And about my unit: From Wiki: "The M3 and M3A1 were largely withdrawn from U.S. frontline service in 1957, but continued to be used until the mid-1990s by armored vehicle crews and truck drivers. During the 1991 Gulf War, drivers of the 19th Engineer Battalion attached to the 1st Armored Division were equipped with the M3A1 as part of their vehicle TOE."
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Posted: 2/1/2014 11:11:26 PM EDT
[#50]
Nice. I thought those Flak Jackets were heavy back then. I hated them. Very light compared to the body armor carried today.
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