...namely the Barrett Rec 7 gen 2 and the LMT CQBPS16. I know a lot of guys here feel a certain way about piston AR's vs. DI but that's not the point...I'm mainly curious in learning how these two in particular stack up against other piston systems like the HK416/MR556, PWS, POF, LWRC, and other high end AR's.

Prices have come down on them quite a bit recently and both can be found in the $1400-$1600 range if you look hard enough, and I was interested in learning more about how they stack up to other piston guns. Both seem to be well designed short stroke systems and of high quality, but there's not a ton of info out there on them.

LMT CQBPS




Barrett Rec 7 Gen 2

Just aren't as popular as they where 6-7 years ago. Guys that needed one shot their wad, and demand is gone. Now D I, AR's are dirt cheap and coming down in price more.

Love my LMT

I can't comment on the two your looking at, but I do have a PWS Diablo SBR.  It runs very well suppressed or not.

Same here. I have  factory 12" SBR that I bought back in 2008 and it hasn't had any issues to date.

Understood...basically I already have a safe full of DI rifles and want to try something new for science...


I'm personally more interested in knowing how the Barrett and LMT op rods and piston setup stack up against the competition, and if they're as durable and reliable as other purpose built piston guns.

The LMT roll mark bugs me.  Petty I know.


Of those two I would likely do the Barrett

My buddy has several POF and seems to like them.

does that piston plug on the LMT get stuck from carbon fowling if you dont maintain cleaning it? the one on a POF i had kept freezing up from carbon.

even the plug on my SCAR16 froze up to the point i had to use pliers to get it unstuck and that was only about 1000 rounds of shooting.

looks like the rec7 would suffer the same problem.

poor design IMO. here you have these great piston designs that dont need as much cleaning in the receiver area but you have to deal with a froze gas plug. maybe some synthetic motor oil in those would help.

those piston plugs on so many rifles are what steered me into the LWRC design. the PWS seems like a good design too.

Topic Moved

PWS gas plug/selector is drilled and tapped to allow for the use of a section of cleaning rod to be inserted and used as a handle for removal

LOL...that sounds like a real winner of an idea. like a cleaning rod is going to be be strong enough to handle that job.

USGI steel ones work just fine.........try it!

Wise to stay away from the Barrett Rec7.  Worst purchase I ever made.  Piston fouls after a few hundred rounds, difficult to disassemble.

If you are buying a rifle just for fun, not a SHTF tool, then any rifle is a good rifle to practice and learn with. The companies you mentioned have good names, ALL DI and Piston AR’s have pros and cons. I have shot and owned, and still own, many of each. Not an expert mind you, just a little experienced.

For S&G’s, I would recommend PWS. They are very durable, reliable, and have a solid track record. They are also probably one of the ONLY manufactured piston uppers I might consider for SHTF, other than something I built myself. But, PWS is long stroke. For short stroke I do like the SA design, but it is patented and not used in the rifles mentioned.



To help answer the question for those that often ask “Can I benefit from a piston AR over a DI”, I humbly request you consider and answer these three questions.

1. Will I ever run my AR suppressed?
2. Will I run a barrel shorter than 14.5” on a pistol or SBR AR?
3. Am I left handed?

If you only answer YES once to any of those questions, stay with DI.
If you answer YES twice to any of those three questions, a piston rifle may benefit you, especially a short barrel and suppressed combo. But again, probably stay with DI.
If you answer YES to all three questions, you should have already considered a piston AR after you put 400+ rounds through your AR on any given range trip.



With that said, if you only shoot a magazine or two through the rifle on most range visit, and/ or you can grab the barrel bare handed after shooting, stick with DI. Even if you answered yes to ALL three questions, it’s just not worth the investment and extra maintenance time (think varmint shooting suppressed, not suppressive fire suppressed, relaxed shooting).

BUT, if you only buy 5.56 in 1000K “Bulk” (hah, mini bulk), and anything under 4-5K rounds on the shelf makes you twitchy, and you always take 400 rounds or more to the range damned near every single time you go because that makes perfect since to you, you don’t paint your black rifle- cause that is what dirt is for, if you have ever burnt your gas tube up having a great time at the range (not MAG dumps, actually running drills), and, if the highest magnification setting on your optic/sight reads a staggering 1X max (4x if you run an ACOG), or your like “F” optics and you run irons, but, more importantly you clean your rifle EVERY SINGLE TIME you’re done shooting, not to just ensure it is clean and lubed, but carefully inspected for future use, THEN after cleaning that said rifle you go and fire a single round through it to fowl the barrel just enough for consistent follow up shots when needed in a pinch just prior to tucking the rifle under your pillow for the night, AND, you answered yes to two or all three questions above, PLUS, you know your rifle almost as well as you do your own junk, bumps, nicks, dings, scratches and all, THEN, well THEN, you could probably seriously benefit from a piston driven AR.

But if the latter is the case, you may really want to own at least two or three of the EXACT same IDENTICALLY setup rifles, and keep them ALL in rotation.

Just in case.

I have a factory PWS because I can, and because it makes cleaning substantially easier, and keeps it working for longer between good cleanings.  It is also stupid accurate, well balanced, and has Lower felt recoil (to me).

I also run lots of cheap ammo through it, and its less picky about that.  In the time it takes me to burn through the barrel, I will have saved enough difference in money to go buy another one.

since we are voting for the favorite rifles that we own, i'll vote for LWRC. no gas plug to get stuck. stupid accurate and just as reliable.

can't say the same for the adams arms and POF i've had.

Have you tried the Mod 2 yet?

Nope.  Didn't exist yet when I was still in the industry, can't get it for as good a price as I did when I got my Mk116 (before they were phosphates assemblies).  I think I caught a good deal because of close out of generations to make room for the new one.

Not that I wouldn't buy another PWS if I had the scratch, I just don't right now.  Kids will do that to a gun budget.  

But it all the qualities I like, but lighter weight, and with a better set of factory accessories?  Yes please 

also pictures 

I have as close to the "free lunch" as I have seen in a piston upper in my ARAK-21. Its a long stroke piston upper that is self-contained (no buffer or buffer spring needed). It gives good access to the gas block for cleaning. It runs on an AR platform with an AK style piston. My ARAK-21 (AR pistol set up) is my go-2 SHTF gun hands down. I can not say that the other AR pistons are bad, but I just don't get a piston system that still needs a buffer\spring in the tube. Also love that the ARAK is a ambi-upper with forward side charging handle. My Lefty friends like that it can go from right-handed to left-handed in a matter of seconds. The only slight downside of the ARAK platform is the weight (she is a heavy upper for sure). I also love the barrel switch options. I run a 5.56 12inch barrel for my AR pistol set up, then a 16 inch 300 Blackout barrel and 16 inch 7.62x39 barrel all for the same upper (just a different spring for 300 Blackout and a different bolt for 7.62x39). Lol, just don't forget to switch it back to eject to the right side when you get it back from your Lefty friends after they shoot it.

I'm glad you brought the ARAK-21 up.  Though I'm a fan of LWRC (fanboy alert) and like PWS a lot (pick em basically) I have always been curious about the ARAK.  I was turned away by some early reports of ejection issues.  Since positive and robust ejection is the reason I like pistons, what are your thoughts on this?  

It's my impression that these issues have been fixed.  Your experience?

There was a pretty exhaustive side by side between the HK 416 and the LMT CQB Piston.

There results were extremely similar, with the LMT coming out on top in a few areas.

LMT has a fantastic piston platform.

I think the first generation ARAK-21s did have ejection problems. The one I have (2nd gen) has zero problems with that. For the 5.56 set up I run it on the mid-gas setting because I live at 9K feet up in the mountains (there is Low gas, Mid gas and High gas settings). The 300 Blackout & 7.62x39 barrels run great on any gas setting as far as I have seen. Faxon Firearms (the maker) also improved the feed ramps on the 7.62x39, so it feeds sweet (while my friend still has feeding problems with his AR-47, using same mags). As for the weight of it, I am in decent shape and its not a concern. But mine ejects both right and left side perfectly (ambi ARAK). Another thing some people don't like is the slightly higher top rail (I think its like half inch over standard AR, but I could be wrong on that number). Again not a big deal to me (but you may feel different). I did at first run Troy Micro Flip up Irons and a micro red dot mount (for perfect co-witness), but then said to hell with that. Now I run a set of Fab Defense Polymer Flip Ups and a Primary Arms (50K hours battery life) Red Dot on a Fortis Perfect Co-Witness mount. I also love that I can use the stock folder (well "brace" folder on the pistol) and fire all day while folded. The only real problem Ive had with so far was when I added a Magpul BAD Lever. The BAD Lever was to thick for the upper and would lock back the bolt at random. I am going to try out the Phase 5 Tactical version in a few weeks to see how that feels. I will admit that the LWRC set ups are super sweet, but for me it would not be a SHTF go 2 upper and its lack of barrel (caliber) switch are just not for me (unless Im mistaken and they do offer an LWRC that can swap barrels out now). Here are some pics of my ARAK-21 in its 5.56 (12 inch barrel) set up.

Thank you for your lengthy reply. What a sweet looking rig!

After seeing your post, I looked into this one a bit. Seems to be a phenomenally well liked platform. I had a Robinson some years ago. While it was a great platform, it was not very accurate. I was lucky to get 3 MOA with good ammo.

Thanks for your insight into this model, it seems to be phenomenally well reviewed.

Same here, great rifle.

Different taste,  I think the LMT roll mark is not bad to look at....a buddy has a Barrett, I have LMTs, a big collection and as far as I am concerned, there is not a better made made rifle than LMT.  I have Larue rifles also and the LMT out shines them in every category.

I have shot his Barrett, good rifle, would take the LMT first.

Attached File

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The LMT is a nice firearm, but heavy.
I have a Barret Rec7 flyweight, and it's great.
It feels fantastic with the nice, small handguard, is not nose heavy at all, and the piston system is very robust.
No pics because photobucket is a dumpster fire.

Here is my latest version of my piston LMT, added the Omega supressor, this is an excellent combo.

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77

I know it's not considered 'high end' but I run an Adams Arms Evo 11.5" upper. Best purchase I ever made.

If it works and you are happy, it's high end enough.

110% agreed....

Dance with what you brought....

^ Thanks for mentioning this.  

Found the article.  Very good info and a great read.

http://www.defensereview.com/lmt-mrp-pistonop-rod-system-vs-hk416-2000-round-head-to-head-test/

The LMT/HK article is wrong.

For starters the fact that DI bolt (with DI firing pin) can be directly swapped into a 416 in a pinch and the BS about needing a proprietary tool for barrel removal.  An appropriate sized spanner wrench will do the job.

The author says "just as reliable as the HK"...... with only 2k rounds in a single test. Uh... yea, sure. In the end the author fairly wets himself over how much he likes the LMT.  His "test" was merely done to help him justify his LMT purchase and a form of confirmation bias.


The only one of the piston guns I saw in the sandbox in the hands of several different nationalities was the 416.

This is what we call a clue.

Wrong in a whole bunch of ways.

Me or the article?

I've had my POF since 2006 with over 10,000 suppressed rounds through it. Never had the plug get stuck. Had to buy another upper over the summer because of their huge sale. Also have been running a CMMG piston kit on my Bravo Co 12.5 with 7,000 rds ran fully suppressed since 2008 with no problems. As for Adams Arms I have over 5,000 rounds of 7n6 5.45X39 ran fully suppressed with no sticking. Looking to add to my piston collection with a PWS MK111 in 7.62x39 because why not.

AS FAR AS PISTON AR-15s GO PWS ALL THE WAY. I PURCHASE ALL DIFFERENT TYPES OF WEAPON SYSTEMS AND DO 5,000 ROUND LONG TERM REVIEWS ON THEM AND THE PWS REALLY SHINED. EXTREMELY RELIABLE, LIGHTWEIGHT, AND BALANCES JUST LIKE A DI GUN. I USUALLY PURCHASE WEAPONS DO THE REVIEW AND SELL THE GUN TO FUND THE NEXT REVIEW AND I JUST COULDNT SELL THE PWS. ENDED DOING A FOURM 1 ON THEIR MOD 2 LOWER AND ORDERED THE MK111 MOD 2 UPPER. ITS AN AMAZING RIFLE. WHEN IT COMES TO ACTUAL PISTON AR-15 GUNS AND WE'VE TESTED QUITE A BIT THE ONLY ONES I RECOMMEND TO PEOPLE ARE PWS, LWRC, AND HK IN THAT ORDER. I LOVE PWS, I LIKE LWRC AND I  KINDA LIKE HK. IF YOUR WANTING A PISTON GUN I WOULD SAY STICK WITH FN SCARS FIRST (I OWN 3), PWS(IVE OWNED AND CURRENTLY SEVERAL), THEN THE CZ  BREN (I OWN 1) THROUGH TESTING AND BEATING RIFLES THESE ARE THE ONES THAT REMAINED RELIABLE AND ACCURATE THROUGH THEM ALL. LWRC IS GOOD BUT THERE ARE ALOT HEAVIER THEN PWS AND THERE PISTON SYSTEM IS MORE COMPLEX AND IN NEED OF MORE MAINTENANCE. IVE ONLY TESTED THE MR556 NOT 416 BUT I FEEL THAT GUN IS NOT WORTH THE MONEY AT ALL. IT IS EXTREMELY HEAVY, THE BARRELS BURN OUT VERY QUICKLY AND THEY ARE JUST OVERPRICED FOR WHAT THEY ARE. PLUS THEIR PISTON SYSTEM IS VERY SIMILAR TO LWRC BUT LWRC HAS A LIGHTER GUN WITH A MUCH BETTER BARREL.

Dude, step away from the crack pipe.

Bud, unless you're Wes from MSTN, lay off the caps lock. No one cares enough what you have to say to try to read that.

~Augee

I got through the 1st sentence.........then I quit.

I agree with PWS, that or LWRCI

Why are you yelling?

Hahaha this is hilarious I was trying to be infomative by giving my opinion through my experience and I get attacked for having my caps lock on. Such a great group of guys.

That you did. I agree with your PWS assessment, but I don’t care for the SCAR in 5.56 at all, she’s a PIG!
Grow thicker skin & develop a sense of humor.  It’s only common courtesy to not type with caps on, darn hard to read.

Have a peachy day.

And you clearly don't know what you're talking about either.

I'm curious as to how you came up with I clearly don't know what I'm talking about can you elaborate. I'd like to hear your opinion on what I posted and the points it which you don't agree with or what parts you thought I did not know what I was talking about.

"THERE PISTON SYSTEM IS MORE COMPLEX AND IN NEED OF MORE MAINTENANCE"

Not complicated, and zero maintenance required.

And it's "their".

I was just having a little fun, lighten up.

I picked up a Sig 516 G2 a few months back. Haven’t had a chance to wring it out. Post your review please. What kind of accuracy testing did you do?

I never said it was a complicated, I said it was more complex then PWS’s piston system. Having a op rod, piston return spring, and spring cup is more complex then having a long rod with a piston head directly attached to the bcg. And LWRC recommends that every 5-7k you replace the parts listed above, which is fine but yes it does require more maintenance. Maybe take a look at the LWRC owners manual or give them a call. I’m not saying LWRC makes a bad weapon. I’m a fan I just prefer PWS a little more. LWRC is my second favorite piston AR. Can’t comment on the rec7 nor LMT I have no experience with them. Glad to clarify it’s been fun gentlemen. Take care.

Actually it's recommended you replace only the spring about every 5k. Takes all of two minutes, if you would happen to be fairly intoxicated.
There goes all my free time, rats.

Don't leave on my account, all in good fun, right.

If you're going to post reviews, put a little more time in research before posting. "It's much heavier"? Give us facts man, is it 6, 8 or 10 ozs.? Is it 5lbs.? How much is much?

And 5k cannot and never will be a true test of a weapon, if it fails in that range it truly is a dog.