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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:34:11 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$5k for a upper, At least he didn't blow it on fat Fayetteville chicks....... |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 12:44:54 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do they design that? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Low backpressure cans, small gas port. Combat_Jack, are you talking about using a 7.62 muffler on a 5.56 rifle? Just curious... |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 1:37:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ding, ding, ding! It's got an 88 prefix, not sure on the year. I've been in contact with with HK customer service but we'll see how that works out. What you are looking for is two letters. ABCDEFGHIK. Any combo of two of those letters will tell you the manufacturer date. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 2:06:36 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
but was it shot by a SEAL? Or at least blown by a SEAL? Only real operators can handle the throbbing rod of teutonic perfection. Maybe he needs a big fucking rope. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 3:15:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do they design that? |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 3:15:33 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm also trying to understand that. Combat_Jack, are you talking about using a 7.62 muffler on a 5.56 rifle? Just curious... |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:32:22 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Shorter cans with ports in the baffles. 
I just got done shooting my Mini4 on my 10.3 DI worked great wooo. |
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Posted: 4/14/2017 4:35:44 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That Mini4 can thats breaking the 416 in OP is one of those type.
I just got done shooting my Mini4 on my 10.3 DI worked great wooo. |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 1:03:13 PM EDT
[#9]
416s are sensitive to specific suppressors in a way that DI guns tend not to be, there are some that just don't play nice with the 416.
You cannot simply buy a vented 10" gas block and drop it onto a barrel built for the unvented block and expect it to function without issue. It may, it may not. HK factory 10" guns with vented blocks use a different port dimension on the barrel. HK is, obviously, not volunteering the barrel port spec, and messing around with the gas port on an MR556 is one thing--most folks are loath to start drilling out factory 416 barrels because they are often either department/agency owned, or worth an excessive amount of money, even used for what they are. Also, what works on an MR556 may not work on a factory 10.4" barrel due to the tapered bore, and getting MR556s to run suppressed and unsuppressed with vented gas blocks is still largely a trial and error affair. If you're unwilling or unable to switch suppressors and/or do gas block/port/barrel work, your best options are either switching to a Vltor A5 buffer system, which many folks have reported success with in "curing" 10" 416 + "x" suppressor problems, or you could grab an extra-heavy buffer and spring like the Slash XH: http://heavybuffers.com/xhcar.html which many have reported success with. ~Augee |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 3:00:23 PM EDT
[#10]
The factory vented 14.5/16 gas block fits fine and functions on 10.4" barrels much better than the unvented gas block. Plug and play, no mods required.
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Posted: 4/15/2017 3:34:12 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The factory vented 14.5/16 gas block fits fine and functions on 10.4" barrels much better than the unvented gas block. Plug and play, no mods required. ~Augee |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 10:43:57 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The factory vented 14.5/16 gas block fits fine and functions on 10.4" barrels much better than the unvented gas block. Plug and play, no mods required. |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 10:53:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If that has been your experience, good on ya, and it might be worth trying if you have a vented block lying around, but many people who have attempted this have reported reliable function while suppressed, but not unsuppressed. ~Augee Gas ports are the same across the 10.5 and 14.5 guns. The only thing that changes is the size of the vent on the gas block I have measured the gas ports on factory HK barrels with a pin gauge set (imperial, not metric) and the ports spec'd out at around .051 (if I recall correctly) HK attempted to control gas volume with venting the block rather then change the gas port which didn't work all that well with the 10.4 guns that had no gas vent, which is why the newer 10.4 guns now have the vented block. To get reliable function from a 10.4 with a 14.5 gas block the port needs to be around .072 if I recall correctly. Someone (not you) said that piston guns are less efficient then DI guns which explains them being "over gassed".... he clearly has no idea what he's talking about. |
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Posted: 4/15/2017 11:17:39 PM EDT
[#14]
No one said anything about efficiency. Timing and sensitivity were discussed.
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Posted: 4/15/2017 11:20:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Nvm
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Posted: 4/16/2017 12:24:31 AM EDT
[#16]
The barrel port size was changed on the 10.4" barrel when the vented block was introduced, hence why you cannot simply install a 10" vented block on a barrel that originally had a non-vented block, and expect it to function reliably. Previously, both the 10.4" and 14.5" barrels used the same gas port size with different gas blocks.
There are many variables at play, which is why it works sometimes for some people, but not as well for others. Ultimately, assuming good magazines, and all other parts in good, functional condition, with the backpressure of the suppressor added, you want to increase the action cycle time, which you can accomplish essentially through four methods, or a combination: 1. Less gas (suppressor choice/venting/porting) 2. Heavier buffer/spring 3. Longer recoil travel (extended receiver extension) 4. Heavier hammer/hammer spring ~Augee |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 12:33:54 AM EDT
[#17]
I am getting my MR556 upper back from Jayson at IGF next Thursday. I was thinking of getting a AAC M4-2000 suppressor for it since I had a 51T mounted. I think I am going to keep it unsuppressed until someone figures out the gas block issue
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Posted: 4/16/2017 1:23:11 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I am getting my MR556 upper back from Jayson at IGF next Thursday. I was thinking of getting a AAC M4-2000 suppressor for it since I had a 51T mounted. I think I am going to keep it unsuppressed until someone figures out the gas block issue You give up so easily. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 7:40:36 AM EDT
[#19]
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This is absolutely incorrect. That said, I don't wish to bicker with someone that feels they're all knowing, so carry on. |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 11:43:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummm, no it's not. I've done it twice, first to an 11.5, and now a 10.5, thousands of rounds thru both. That said, I don't wish to bicker with someone that feels they're all knowing, so carry on. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is absolutely incorrect. That said, I don't wish to bicker with someone that feels they're all knowing, so carry on. 
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Posted: 4/16/2017 12:21:50 PM EDT
[#21]
Happy 4/16 everyone!
Have a jam packed day!!!! |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 12:37:18 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Happy 4/16 everyone! Have a jam packed day!!!! 
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Posted: 4/16/2017 12:43:22 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Happy 4/16 everyone! Have a jam packed day!!!! |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 1:05:51 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To celebrate, I'm going to break my disconnector! I used bolt lug confetti for the bedding in my kids easter baskets! |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 1:11:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote History RustedAce:
Happy 4/16 everyone! 
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Posted: 4/16/2017 1:57:26 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A few hundred? When I got my 10.75" dedicated suppressed gun done on a Colt I lived it and put 700 rounds through it in two days. Then a cleaned and lubed it and put it next to the bed. You telling me that it's better than an HK? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The 416's I fired were suppressed with B&T suppressors. One thing I noticed was that the chamber got as dirty as a DI gun, and after a few hundred rounds they would have FTE just like yours. 
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Posted: 4/16/2017 7:55:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You are aware we are only talking about the Hk 416 and not a peasant AR15, right?
Edited to add: I already have one of those too... 
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Posted: 4/16/2017 10:35:08 PM EDT
[#28]
This thread has gone predictably downhill...
@quest84 Let us know what fix(es) you end up trying and how they work for you, if any. @veeklog M4-2000 should work fine, as I've mentioned here and elsewhere, the 416 tends to be a little suppressor sensitive, but for the most part, I would recommend against messing with the gas system, at least until you've tried and exhausted the other options. That being said, the M4-2000 is, for all intents and purposes, almost identical to the 416-SD, which was designed around the non-vented 10.4" gun, as was the Surefire FA556-212, as has already been mentioned. There were also special heavy buffers designed for use in these systems prior to the vented gas block. The XH buffer I linked to is essentially the same thing. For the rest of you mugs, quit bickering, and have a happy 4-16. 
AE-coded factory 10.4" barrel with non-vented gas block, Surefire FA556-212, Geissele SSA, and HK buffer and spring. Runs like champ suppressed and unsuppressed, and eats anything from Tula to M855A1. (Upper and stock freshly rattle-canned today in honor of 4-16) ~Augee |
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Posted: 4/16/2017 10:46:19 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That being said, the M4-2000 is, for all intents and purposes, almost identical to the 416-SD, I should sell it to Joglee. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 2:13:49 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I own a 416-SD. I should sell it to Joglee. I mean ya'll tell me the HK416 snaps disconnectors like they're going out of style, Augess has a "supremely overgassed suppressed SBR, that snaps disconnectors under ideal conditions". |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:10:44 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
instead of worrying about calling me out in a tech thread, shouldn't Augee running a 416 upper on a standard AR lower be a bigger concern? I mean ya'll should be giving him advice to stop using that upper before he breaks his lower parts. I mean ya'll tell me the HK416 snaps disconnectors like they're going out of style, Augess has a "supremely overgassed suppressed SBR, that snaps disconnectors under ideal conditions". 
Thats actually a good point, does anyone sell those little metal shields to protect his? |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:27:18 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The barrel port size was changed on the 10.4" barrel when the vented block was introduced, hence why you cannot simply install a 10" vented block on a barrel that originally had a non-vented block, and expect it to function reliably. Previously, both the 10.4" and 14.5" barrels used the same gas port size with different gas blocks. There are many variables at play, which is why it works sometimes for some people, but not as well for others. Ultimately, assuming good magazines, and all other parts in good, functional condition, with the backpressure of the suppressor added, you want to increase the action cycle time, which you can accomplish essentially through four methods, or a combination: 1. Less gas (suppressor choice/venting/porting) 2. Heavier buffer/spring 3. Longer recoil travel (extended receiver extension) 4. Heavier hammer/hammer spring ~Augee Quote HistoryQuoted:
The barrel port size was changed on the 10.4" barrel when the vented block was introduced, hence why you cannot simply install a 10" vented block on a barrel that originally had a non-vented block, and expect it to function reliably. Previously, both the 10.4" and 14.5" barrels used the same gas port size with different gas blocks. There are many variables at play, which is why it works sometimes for some people, but not as well for others. Ultimately, assuming good magazines, and all other parts in good, functional condition, with the backpressure of the suppressor added, you want to increase the action cycle time, which you can accomplish essentially through four methods, or a combination: 1. Less gas (suppressor choice/venting/porting) 2. Heavier buffer/spring 3. Longer recoil travel (extended receiver extension) 4. Heavier hammer/hammer spring ~Augee Sounds like over function with the suppressor. Although the short stroke piston systems like the hk416 are usually more forgiving than direct impingement systems, especially with shorter barrels, it doesn't sound like it in this case.
I'm assuming the weapons have been in service for a while. And it sounds like your trying various things to mitigate. I would ensure the gas piston, buffer, and buffer spring are all newer and not worn. If you have already done this then ..... A few options - We have a more updated barrel and gas block with a bleed off valve as used by Fbi and ATF in 10.4 in barrel with suppressors. We could offer a barrel and gas block complete. It is possible to make this change in your current weapon. The barrel port hole under the gas block needs to be enlarged to 1.6 mm and the gas block vent hole is drilled to have a 1 mm vent hole in the front. I can get you more specifics later when I have computer and connection. We could also offer an 11" barrel hk416a5 version with adjustable gas block which will work but would be more expensive and take longer. Any of the above should mitigate the issues your having. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 9:55:42 AM EDT
[#33]
Like I predicted HK is offering a Gen6 solution.
I would take them up on it with the condition that you can keep the current barrel. If they'll allow that you'll come out money ahead selling it to an MR556 owner. |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 11:49:52 AM EDT
[#34]
Not sure if it was mentioned, is this an LE gun?
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Posted: 4/17/2017 1:03:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if it was mentioned, is this an LE gun? |
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Posted: 4/17/2017 1:04:47 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was just trying to be nice maybe offering up my interesting bit of HK history.
Thats actually a good point, does anyone sell those little metal shields to protect his? This is a tech thread that spent 2/4 of all posts discussing me, not the topic at hand. The people in here who should know better, felt the need to troll me in a Tech thread, in violation of the CoC. To your second point. Maybe y'all blow the few issues the 416 has out of proportion. I would be curious to hear how many rounds Augee has through that gun and what issues he has seen, since there are supposedly so many issues with the 416. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 12:33:20 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The barrel port size was changed on the 10.4" barrel when the vented block was introduced, hence why you cannot simply install a 10" vented block on a barrel that originally had a non-vented block, and expect it to function reliably. Previously, both the 10.4" and 14.5" barrels used the same gas port size with different gas blocks. ~Augee Quote HistoryQuoted:
The barrel port size was changed on the 10.4" barrel when the vented block was introduced, hence why you cannot simply install a 10" vented block on a barrel that originally had a non-vented block, and expect it to function reliably. Previously, both the 10.4" and 14.5" barrels used the same gas port size with different gas blocks. ~Augee It is possible to make this change in your current weapon. The barrel port hole under the gas block needs to be enlarged to 1.6 mm and the gas block vent hole is drilled to have a 1 mm vent hole in the front. I can get you more specifics later when I have computer and connection. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 12:36:48 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ummm, no it's not. I've done it twice, first to an 11.5, and now a 10.5, thousands of rounds thru both. That said, I don't wish to bicker with someone that feels they're all knowing, so carry on. I also did the work myself. I didn't have someone else do it for me and modify the system without telling me exactly what they did. I know exactly the steps taken to get a cut down MR556 to work with a vented gas block. If you did the same, i'd like to hear it. If you just sent your upper off to someone else for work, perhaps you should listen to those who do, not those who send things off to others. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 6:50:03 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you just sent your upper off to someone else for work, perhaps you should listen to those who do, not those who send things off to others. In my case, my 1st MR was cut to 11.5, WITHOUT any gas port mods, reassembled by me using the vented 16" gas block, and found to function suppressed (1:30) and unsuppressed (3:30). Then, I promptly sold my 416 upper. That was years ago when the MR was first released. I did the same a few years ago, but 10.5. Again, without port mods, plug and play, functions suppressed (1:30) & unsuppressed (4:00) and still in use. Thousands of rounds thru both. It's worth noting both function with the sole mods being the cut barrels. Thru the years I've also ran them with various buffers including H3's and springs, but have come back to the stock buffer and spring. All ammo is AE223, XM193, & XM855 and suppressors are Surefire SB and Mini Socom. Both still ejected to 1:30 suppressed, so now I'm moving on the the adjustable gas block. If you read the forums, you'll see I'm not the only on with this experience. I don't know why yours isn't the same. |
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Posted: 4/18/2017 5:13:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It is possible to make this change in your current weapon. The barrel port hole under the gas block needs to be enlarged to 1.6 mm and the gas block vent hole is drilled to have a 1 mm vent hole in the front. I can get you more specifics later when I have computer and connection. |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 1:15:55 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 4/19/2017 4:37:25 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A know-it-all that lectures others based on assumptions too, huh? Perhaps you should listen instead of lecture? In my case, my 1st MR was cut to 11.5, WITHOUT any gas port mods, reassembled by me using the vented 16" gas block, and found to function suppressed (1:30) and unsuppressed (3:30). Then, I promptly sold my 416 upper. That was years ago when the MR was first released. I did the same a few years ago, but 10.5. Again, without port mods, plug and play, functions suppressed (1:30) & unsuppressed (4:00) and still in use. Thousands of rounds thru both. It's worth noting both function with the sole mods being the cut barrels. Thru the years I've also ran them with various buffers including H3's and springs, but have come back to the stock buffer and spring. All ammo is AE223, XM193, & XM855 and suppressors are Surefire SB and Mini Socom. Both still ejected to 1:30 suppressed, so now I'm moving on the the adjustable gas block. If you read the forums, you'll see I'm not the only on with this experience. I don't know why yours isn't the same. What did your gas port spec out at? Your vent? |
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Posted: 4/19/2017 9:01:28 PM EDT
[#43]
@Combat_Jack
@RustedAce Form someone who was a platoon sergeant and platoon leader for the Norwegian military. Arctic1
Thanks. What we have seen is improved reliability over competitors in harsh conditions, reduced wear of parts compared to the C8 (I cannot definitely say if that is related to the piston operating system or just overall quality of the system), good mechanical accuracy (in combination with our issued ammo). Someone who was a platoon leader should have experiences with these things, what makes the 416 last longer than a C8(which does not HPT the bolt) for the Norwegian Military, but not compared to the M4A1 or Mk18? From what @LRRPF52 has said, the C8 should be more durable than the M4, which should be more durable than the 416. Look all my old GD shit aside, I'm genuinely curious why the discrepancy between what our people here who have used and tested both have seen compared to what Norway is seeing? |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 7:50:13 AM EDT
[#44]
do you have her name who sent that?
on a more serious point, you are using HK marketing and second hand accounts to tell no shit SMEs who have used both, have seen significant amounts of combat in some cases, and are instructors that they are wrong based upon what, exactly? what you read on the internet and saw from some chick in norway? |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 10:08:04 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
do you have her name who sent that? on a more serious point, you are using HK marketing and second hand accounts to tell no shit SMEs who have used both, have seen significant amounts of combat in some cases, and are instructors that they are wrong based upon what, exactly? what you read on the internet and saw from some chick in norway? Arctic1 posted that. Like I said, ignoring my shit in GD I'm honestly curious. According to a platoon leader for the Norwegian military with 10 years being issued the hk416, he has seen increased durability and reliability over Norway's C8s. This is contrary to what our SMEs said, who I honestly don't doubt. But why the disconnect? Do we just shoot our guns harder and see things break Norway doesn't? Why would they find the 416 lasting longer than the C8, yet those here with extensive testing find the M4A1 lasting longer than the 416? |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 10:10:37 AM EDT
[#46]
Are NCOs platoon leaders in Norway?
I do pay attention to Arctic. He drives me mad sometimes with his conventional thinking though. The question I would ask is are you distinguishing between service life and reliability? |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 10:16:41 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are NCOs platoon leaders in Norway? I do pay attention to Arctic. He drives me mad sometimes with his conventional thinking though. The question I would ask is are you distinguishing between service life and reliability? He mentioned increased reliability in harsh conditions, and reduced wear of parts over the C8. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 10:19:27 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@Sylvan Arctic1 posted that. Like I said, ignoring my shit in GD I'm honestly curious. According to a platoon leader for the Norwegian military with 10 years being issued the hk416, he has seen increased durability and reliability over Norway's C8s. This is contrary to what our SMEs said, who I honestly don't doubt. But why the disconnect? Do we just shoot our guns harder and see things break Norway doesn't? Why would they find the 416 lasting longer than the C8, yet those here with extensive testing find the M4A1 lasting longer than the 416? What is the "durability" issue? What broke? What didn't? What is the "reliability" issue? What are the malfunctions? What aren't? Did they get new mags with new 416s? Speaking as a retired infantry officer, I know first hand that uniformed service does not make someone an expert in small arms. I am not an expert in any way. I am an expert in my first hand experiences and I am an inspired amateur when it comes to the retardedness that comes with military procurement. I was around during the XM-8 dick suck fest where people sounded identical to how you and others talk about the 416. The G36/XM8 was a giant piece of fucking garbage that if the fanbois had gotten their way would have gotten soldiers killed. And I know that the best thing that has happened to US military small arms is having commonality with what civilian shooters are using so that civilian improvements are quickly and easily integrated into military small arms. Something that the proprietary nature of the HK systems will forever fuck over any military that incorporates it. If you adopt an HK weapon, you will forever be frozen at that moment in design unless you spend an obscene amount of money on HK. They apparantly make great barrels. Well, cool. But that ain't enough. I'll take a Geiselled out weapon (at half the cost of an HK) any fucking day. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 10:20:53 AM EDT
[#49]
I'm skeptical about increased reliability because malfunctions in the M4/M16 are very rare if you live your gun and use mags that aren't broken.
But I have no doubt many HK parts last longer and some don't last as long. |
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Posted: 4/20/2017 7:20:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And I know that the best thing that has happened to US military small arms is having commonality with what civilian shooters are using so that civilian improvements are quickly and easily integrated into military small arms. Something that the proprietary nature of the HK systems will forever fuck over any military that incorporates it. |
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