User Panel
Posted: 10/11/2017 10:14:22 AM EDT
This isn't retro-related, but I figured if anyone around here would know, it would be you gents in here.
For years I've seen the name Victor @ US Anodizing mentioned around here for quality anodize work. I've got a Gunfighter charging handle I need anodized in a tan/sand or FDE color. I see they have a color listed on their site like this, but its in their "xTreme" line, which isn't anodizing, it's some kind of coating. I want anodizing, and anodize that will go with my Colt factory anodized receiver extension. Not looking for it to match, not even close, just need some shade of tan/FDE. Has anyone ever had anything like this done? In the tan anodize? If so, please post a pic or two if you can. I appreciate any help or experience you guys can offer. |
|
I've never seen Tan Annodizing, are you sure that's what's on your parts? All of the Tan/FDE I've seen has been Cerakote or something similar.
|
|
Its right on their Website
NEW COLORS:
During the past few years, we have developed other colors that are now available in Type III Anodizing. The coloirs listed below are only available on production parts. Magpul FDE, Daniel Defense FDE, LWRC MRE, Knights (KAC) SOCOM, and many other colors and shades. If you do not see it, please ask we may have it. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Its right on their Website View Quote I saw that, but it says those colors are only for production parts, so I assumed that meant large batches. It's right in the quote you included in your post. Is that not right? I can send in one charging handle and they'll anodize it in some shade of tan? ETA: I've already emailed them asking for clarification, but have not received a reply yet. |
|
Tan type III anodizing can be done, bbut you are going to have a tough time finding anyone to do a single part, and if you do find a shop you likely will have to pay a minimum charge to have it run.
Also realize that tan anodizing is going to fall in a range of color, no two batches are exactly the same. It is the nature of the process. Sven Manticore Arms |
|
Quoted:
Tan type III anodizing can be done, bbut you are going to have a tough time finding anyone to do a single part, and if you do find a shop you likely will have to pay a minimum charge to have it run. Also realize that tan anodizing is going to fall in a range of color, no two batches are exactly the same. It is the nature of the process. Sven Manticore Arms View Quote |
|
Quoted:
@ZedsDeadBaby I saw that, but it says those colors are only for production parts, so I assumed that meant large batches. It's right in the quote you included in your post. Is that not right? I can send in one charging handle and they'll anodize it in some shade of tan? ETA: I've already emailed them asking for clarification, but have not received a reply yet. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Its right on their Website I saw that, but it says those colors are only for production parts, so I assumed that meant large batches. It's right in the quote you included in your post. Is that not right? I can send in one charging handle and they'll anodize it in some shade of tan? ETA: I've already emailed them asking for clarification, but have not received a reply yet. @Ankratz could probably Cerakote match it. He's very good at what he does in terms of matching colors like DD's brown on their Mk18/M4A1 rails. |
|
Attached File
Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File OP, shoot me an email if you need anything done. I do cerakote work, with my main interest in such being mimicking anodizing. |
|
Quoted:
@dangerdan was trying to get a whole batch of some 416 type uppers, lowers, and other parts Tanodized however the common thread is exactly that, they wanted large production quantities. Getting a group buy together for that just wasn't happening. @Ankratz could probably Cerakote match it. He's very good at what he does in terms of matching colors like DD's brown on their Mk18/M4A1 rails. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Its right on their Website I saw that, but it says those colors are only for production parts, so I assumed that meant large batches. It's right in the quote you included in your post. Is that not right? I can send in one charging handle and they'll anodize it in some shade of tan? ETA: I've already emailed them asking for clarification, but have not received a reply yet. @Ankratz could probably Cerakote match it. He's very good at what he does in terms of matching colors like DD's brown on their Mk18/M4A1 rails. |
|
Quoted:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/232334/20170905_034506-332318.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/232334/20170803_013935-332319.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/232334/20160602_150355-332321.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/232334/20170531_201401-332322.JPGhttps://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/232334/20170423_190105-332324.JPG OP, shoot me an email if you need anything done. I do cerakote work, with my main interest in such being mimicking anodizing. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
For years I've seen the name Victor @ US Anodizing mentioned around here for quality anodize work. View Quote Speaking of Victor. Does anybody know if he is accepting work from us little people? I have a dozen 4 position buffer tubes that want to be xm grey. |
|
Quoted:
Speaking of Victor. Does anybody know if he is accepting work from us little people? I have a dozen 4 position buffer tubes that want to be xm grey. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
For years I've seen the name Victor @ US Anodizing mentioned around here for quality anodize work. Speaking of Victor. Does anybody know if he is accepting work from us little people? I have a dozen 4 position buffer tubes that want to be xm grey. Attached File |
|
Quoted:
Speaking of Victor. Does anybody know if he is accepting work from us little people? I have a dozen 4 position buffer tubes that want to be xm grey. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
For years I've seen the name Victor @ US Anodizing mentioned around here for quality anodize work. Speaking of Victor. Does anybody know if he is accepting work from us little people? I have a dozen 4 position buffer tubes that want to be xm grey. Not at the present time. He's only doing large production runs right now. |
|
Quoted:
I've used Norrel's Moly resin with really good results to imitate that color. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/232334/Screenshot_20171014-011320-332926.JPG View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
For years I've seen the name Victor @ US Anodizing mentioned around here for quality anodize work. Speaking of Victor. Does anybody know if he is accepting work from us little people? I have a dozen 4 position buffer tubes that want to be xm grey. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/232334/Screenshot_20171014-011320-332926.JPG |
|
Quoted:
@USAF-ORF Not at the present time. He's only doing large production runs right now. View Quote His main beef is with 80% lowers that have a fake sear pin or are machined to M-16/M-4 dimensions in the pocket. Yes, just the dimensions. And with people who send him said lowers under the "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" premise. I have no details, but ATF is still up his ass, apparently. As always, if in doubt, ask him. (Victor) |
|
Quoted:
Victor said (in a e-mail today) he could do those tubes, no problem (have to be patient) . His main beef is with 80% lowers that have a fake sear pin or are machined to M-16/M-4 dimensions in the pocket. Yes, just the dimensions. And with people who send him said lowers under the "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" premise. I have no details, but ATF is still up his ass, apparently. As always, if in doubt, ask him. (Victor) View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
@USAF-ORF Not at the present time. He's only doing large production runs right now. His main beef is with 80% lowers that have a fake sear pin or are machined to M-16/M-4 dimensions in the pocket. Yes, just the dimensions. And with people who send him said lowers under the "it's better to ask forgiveness than permission" premise. I have no details, but ATF is still up his ass, apparently. As always, if in doubt, ask him. (Victor) And thanks for checking with him. I emailed him a week or two ago and never received a reply, at least not as of yet. That's okay, though. I found an alternative option that will be just fine. And it's a shame that ATF is still harassing him/others about the fake sear pin engravings. There's at least one manufacturer that's doing this with their factory retro guns and apparently it's no big deal for them. |
|
Quoted:
What tubes? Lol. I was curious about getting a charging handle done in tan. And thanks for checking with him. I emailed him a week or two ago and never received a reply, at least not as of yet. That's okay, though. I found an alternative option that will be just fine. And it's a shame that ATF is still harassing him/others about the fake sear pin engravings. There's at least one manufacturer that's doing this with their factory retro guns and apparently it's no big deal for them. View Quote Attached File |
|
Quoted:
They are getting away with it because the gun is designated as no FA operation and it has a sear fence in it and it was approved by the BATF before they went into production with it. [url]https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/440431/troyretrolower-337942.JPG[url] View Quote So we can put a fake autosear engraving if we have that fence inside? What the ATF said is just what they said, it isn't a determination letter or law. Just know if you have such an engraving, you MAY be asked about it if they ever look at it. |
|
Quoted:
Just because you stamp 'Semi Only' on a firearm, doesn't make it true. Same with stamping 'AUTO' doesn't make it a machine gun. So we can put a fake autosear engraving if we have that fence inside? What the ATF said is just what they said, it isn't a determination letter or law. Just know if you have such an engraving, you MAY be asked about it if they ever look at it. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
You did notice the fence in there didn't you, that prevents the installation of the auto sear..some of you guys are so dense you could be your own black hole in space. As a manufacturing FFL, I get all kinds of opinions, but yes Troy got a predetermination on their guns.. Stop being so dense.. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
Just because you stamp 'Semi Only' on a firearm, doesn't make it true. Same with stamping 'AUTO' doesn't make it a machine gun. So we can put a fake autosear engraving if we have that fence inside? What the ATF said is just what they said, it isn't a determination letter or law. Just know if you have such an engraving, you MAY be asked about it if they ever look at it. Of course the fence prevents the installation of an auto sear. But so does the fact that the pin hole isn't even drilled, regardless of an engraving. The fake pin hole engraving doesn't change that and the fence in the lower doesn't mean anything. If someone is willing to drill the third hole that fence doesn't mean shit. Any idiot with a Dremel could remove it in about 5 minutes. The fake sear pin engraving doesn't make it any more or less likely to be made a machinegun. The pin engraving, whether the fence is there, or not, doesn't matter. There's machining that needs to be done either way, so the fence means nothing. 99.9% of people have no clue what the pin engraving means and why it's there. In fact, the only guys who own or even want a lower with the engraving are genuine collectors. The absolute least likely group out there to be manufacturing illegal MG's. Stupid of the ATF to make a call about the engraving in the first place. Telling retro builders they can't engrave their own fake pin hole, but then telling Troy it's okay because they asked permission first and added a fence is absurd. If the retro builders wanted to manufacture machine guns, they sure as hell wouldn't be engraving fake pin holes, they'd be drilling real ones. |
|
Quoted:
@DaveP1 Of course the fence prevents the installation of an auto sear. But so does the fact that the pin hole isn't even drilled, regardless of an engraving. The fake pin hole engraving doesn't change that and the fence in the lower doesn't mean anything. If someone is willing to drill the third hole that fence doesn't mean shit. Any idiot with a Dremel could remove it in about 5 minutes. The fake sear pin engraving doesn't make it any more or less likely to be made a machinegun. The pin engraving, whether the fence is there, or not, doesn't matter. There's machining that needs to be done either way, so the fence means nothing. 99.9% of people have no clue what the pin engraving means and why it's there. In fact, the only guys who own or even want a lower with the engraving are genuine collectors. The absolute least likely group out there to be manufacturing illegal MG's. Stupid of the ATF to make a call about the engraving in the first place. Telling retro builders they can't engrave their own fake pin hole, but then telling Troy it's okay because they asked permission first and added a fence is absurd. If the retro builders wanted to manufacture a machine gun, they sure as hell wouldn't be engraving fake pin holes, they'd be drilling them. View Quote So again, don't come down on me, I had nothing to do with it, they did. Disagreeing with me, is not going to get you anywhere, you need to take it up with the people that make the determinations. |
|
Quoted:
Don't take it up with me, take it up with the BATF! Fuck, they are the ones that changed the damn rules again, I just happen to be familiar with what they do and I know to expect the unexpected at any given time! It might not mean anything to you, but it might, as we saw, mean something to someone that works for the agency that gets to interpret rules the way THEY deem fit, it don't mean shit what we have to say. So again, don't come down on me, I had nothing to do with it, they did. Disagreeing with me, is not going to get you anywhere, you need to take it up with the people that make the determinations. View Quote You have suggested here that an internal fence and pre-approval is required for allowance of a fake sear engraving. Can you point to that in an ATF document somewhere? As an interesting, related, aside, I noticed that the ATF is now pushing back on the question of regulating bumpstocks because they "don't have the authority" to create regulation that's not legislated. One has to wonder if they're even self-aware of the irony in their statement. |
|
Quoted:
Just a suggestion, Dave. If you don't want others to "come down on you," try not rudely insulting others' intelligence for questioning ATF opinions. It rather makes it sound like you're defending the ATF. You have suggested here that an internal fence and pre-approval is required for allowance of a fake sear engraving. Can you point to that in an ATF document somewhere? As an interesting, related, aside, I noticed that the ATF is now pushing back on the question of regulating bumpstocks because they "don't have the authority" to create regulation that's not legislated. One has to wonder if they're even self-aware of the irony in their statement. View Quote There was no "pre approval" required then this issue came up where some dumb fuck decided that a fake sear engraving was manufacturing a "Machine Gun" The determination was bullshit to begin with, but nobody has the money or the time to actually fight these assholes. The BATF is not self aware and that is one of the biggest fucking problems with them. Until this issue, there was no pre-approval required to put a fake sear engraving on your lower, this changed the way things are going in the retro business. I can't point to a document, the only thing I can point to, is lowers were confiscated and no one involved was trying or had "Intent" to make a machine gun. We should all be protected because of what Troy has done, but, as we found out, we are not! If I have offended, that was not my intent. And with that I will post a big FUCK YOU BATF! I have been saying it for years, it does not matter what your intent is, it matter what "They think your intent is" |
|
My point was that there's no rulebook that outlines how to properly add a fake sear pin engraving to a lower. I think it's bullshit that Troy can do it, regardless of how they went about it, but you and I do it and we get our shit confiscated, more than likely because we didn't ask permission first. If Troy can do it on production guns, there's no reason Joe retro builder can't do it, and it pisses me off to no end to think that the ATF can steal people's personal belongings, even when they can't articulate any wrongdoing. We don't like what you're doing, so we're gonna take your shit. That's exactly what happened and it burns my ass.
ATF is a major pain in the ass and continuously chooses to make determinations that make no fucking sense, and it's fuckin sad that decent American citizens like you and I have to sit around and suffer the consequences. |
|
Quoted:
Liking what I have to say, has nothing to do with the actual world. I am not insulting anyone, I just happen to be a manufacture and subject to the whims and wishes of this agency on a daily basis, and the "Fuck the BATF" don't work. There was no "pre approval" required then this issue came up where some dumb fuck decided that a fake sear engraving was manufacturing a "Machine Gun" The determination was bullshit to begin with, but nobody has the money or the time to actually fight these assholes. The BATF is not self aware and that is one of the biggest fucking problems with them. Until this issue, there was no pre-approval required to put a fake sear engraving on your lower, this changed the way things are going in the retro business. I can't point to a document, the only thing I can point to, is lowers were confiscated and no one involved was trying or had "Intent" to make a machine gun. We should all be protected because of what Troy has done, but, as we found out, we are not! If I have offended, that was not my intent. And with that I will post a big FUCK YOU BATF! I have been saying it for years, it does not matter what your intent is, it matter what "They think your intent is" View Quote OK, I think we may be aligned with the issue of ATF overreach, but I'm still wondering about the legal requirements rather than about how people are forced to work out of fear of an irrational government agency. I'm not disparaging anyone from working that way--I understand risk management--but I would like to know the actual law. Legally speaking, if there's no publication of the requirements for an internal shelf and semi-auto engraving, then there is no requirement for them. And while it was absolutely a good business decision for Troy to get approval in advance, I'd like to know if there is any legislative or regulatory requirement for such pre-approval. I can't help but think the reason the ATF has been allowed to operate as they have is because no one with deep enough pockets has been damaged by their actions. And while I'm not about to volunteer to be a test case, I would gladly donate cash towards a defense fund for anyone who wanted to challenge this regulatory overreach. If anyone knows of such a defense fund, I'd like to hear some details. ETA: I also don't blame Victor for his new rules. I think it's sad, but I understand the business decision. |
|
Quoted:
"I am not insulting anyone." Unless, perhaps, one considers "some of you guys are so dense you could be your own black hole in space" insulting? Meh, we'll let that drop. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
If anyone knows of such a defense fund, I'd like to hear some details. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes They certainly have the funds. NRA-ILA can provide general advice regarding laws and regulations affecting gun owners, however; our attorneys are prohibited by the ethical restraints of their bar license(s) from providing specific legal advice. Our attorneys are also prohibited from discussing legal issues with individuals already represented by counsel, but may assist counsel with research and advice. You may contact the Office of Legislative Counsel at (703) 267-1161 or via email at [email protected], however; if you have a question about your case and are represented by counsel, please refrain from contacting us directly and instead refer your counsel to this office. |
|
Quoted:
I don't know if I'd call it a defense fund (and given their recent track record, they may not be helpful) but it wouldn't hurt to ask. They certainly have the funds. View Quote I found it interesting when the NRA pushed for the ATF to revisit regulation of bumpstocks. At first, it seemed to me that they were publicly acknowledging ATF's authority to regulate such things--a specific point to which I object. But now that ATF has replied, saying they don't have the authority to make such decisions, I'm considering that it might have been a brilliant move aimed at getting that very admission into the public record. Unfortunately, since the ATF has regulated by proclamation in so many other cases (including this one about fake sear engravings), that admission won't do any good unless we can apply it to a whole bunch of technical letters and individual decisions...and I believe that will require judiciary action. |
|
Quoted:
Yeah, I'm familiar with what the NRA does, but in this case, I prefer to support direct legal action. I found it interesting when the NRA pushed for the ATF to revisit regulation of bumpstocks. At first, it seemed to me that they were publicly acknowledging ATF's authority to regulate such things--a specific point to which I object. But now that ATF has replied, saying they don't have the authority to make such decisions, I'm considering that it might have been a brilliant move aimed at getting that very admission into the public record. Unfortunately, since the ATF has regulated by proclamation in so many other cases (including this one about fake sear engravings), that admission won't do any good unless we can apply it to a whole bunch of technical letters and individual decisions...and I believe that will require judiciary action. View Quote But until that happens, we are going to continue to be victim of the whims and wishes of each and every agent in the BATF. |
|
Quoted:
No, there are plenty of tan anodized parts. Here's a pic of a factory anodized Colt buffer tube for reference. Also, check out PRI charging handles, all of the Geissele handguards in their DDC color, etc. https://s1.postimg.org/8w99j91rin/20171009_121046.jpg And here's a lower I Cerakoted FDE for comparison. The lower is Cerakoted and the buffer tube is the same one as shown above, which is anodized. I don't want the charging handle coated, I want it anodized. https://s1.postimg.org/2w2dcc5pnj/20171009_135738.jpg Examples of Geissele's tan/FDE anodized parts , which they refer to as "Desert Dirt Color" because of the variation from batch to batch. The come out in many different shades. These are only a few of the possible outcomes. https://s1.postimg.org/5xzjbdjj33/345c11s.jpg This is the one I just built that I want the handle anodized for. Just prefer the Gunfighter handle to any of the other available tan anodized options on the market, so I thought I if I could, I would have it done myself. https://s1.postimg.org/6po5yl5t9p/20171011_130808.jpg View Quote |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
No, there are plenty of tan anodized parts. Here's a pic of a factory anodized Colt buffer tube for reference. Also, check out PRI charging handles, all of the Geissele handguards in their DDC color, etc. https://s1.postimg.org/8w99j91rin/20171009_121046.jpg And here's a lower I Cerakoted FDE for comparison. The lower is Cerakoted and the buffer tube is the same one as shown above, which is anodized. I don't want the charging handle coated, I want it anodized. https://s1.postimg.org/2w2dcc5pnj/20171009_135738.jpg Examples of Geissele's tan/FDE anodized parts , which they refer to as "Desert Dirt Color" because of the variation from batch to batch. The come out in many different shades. These are only a few of the possible outcomes. https://s1.postimg.org/5xzjbdjj33/345c11s.jpg This is the one I just built that I want the handle anodized for. Just prefer the Gunfighter handle to any of the other available tan anodized options on the market, so I thought I if I could, I would have it done myself. https://s1.postimg.org/6po5yl5t9p/20171011_130808.jpg Yes, it is. Why do you ask? ETA: This is the second one I've had. When BCM first released them I grabbed one and it wasn't nearly as nice as this one. It was very roughly machined, had what appeared to be thin spots in the Ionbond, and just wasn't up to the standard I'm used to with all of the other BCM carriers I own. I quickly sold it. When I built this gun I decided I wanted an FDE carrier, so my choices were limited to the BCM and the new Sharp's Rifle Company FDE carrier. Decided I'd give BCM another shot and I'm glad I did. This one is leaps and bounds better than the first. Glass smooth machining and coating and a much more even, darker color. Just better all around. |
|
|
Quoted:
Looks good in your rifle. I didn't even know BCM offered it as an option until a couple days ago. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted:
Quoted:
@jaqufrost Yes, it is. Why do you ask? Thanks, man. Appreciate it. See the edit to my above post if you wanna know more. |
|
I bought two of the Sharps DLC BCG's this week. Hopefully they work well for me
|
|
Quoted:
I bought two of the Sharps DLC BCG's this week. Hopefully they work well for me View Quote Nice. Did you get the black or the FDE? I've wanted to get a Sharp's bolt since they released them, but after seeing that dude break two in a row and then another member who had his Relia-Bolt peening a mirror image of his bolt face into his Noveske barrel extension, I've been on the fence. I understand the broken bolts were a heat treat issue and SRC handled that well, but the other dude went through all the troubleshooting with SRC and when the barrel was found to be in-spec and their bolt to be out of spec, they just quit all communication with him and left him with a bad bolt and a screwed up Noveske barrel. I guess they didn't wanna eat the cost of a bolt and a replacement Noveske barrel, even though that was the right thing to do. I'd still like to try one, though. Really interested in how the S7 bolt does in your guns. Pretty sure I've seen one or two 1400rpm videos of yours. Along with audio of you talking to the ATF about an accidental F1 machinegun approval. |
|
Quoted:
@jaqufrost - Sorry to keep mentioning you. Just wasn't sure if you planned on coming back into the thread. Nice. Did you get the black or the FDE? I've wanted to get a Sharp's bolt since they released them, but after seeing that dude break two in a row and then another member who had his Relia-Bolt peening a mirror image of his bolt face into his Noveske barrel extension, I've been on the fence. I understand the broken bolts were a heat treat issue and SRC handled that well, but the other dude went through all the troubleshooting with SRC and when the barrel was found to be in-spec and their bolt to be out of spec, they just quit all communication with him and left him with a bad bolt and a screwed up Noveske barrel. I guess they didn't wanna eat the cost of a bolt and a replacement Noveske barrel, even though that was the right thing to do. I'd still like to try one, though. Really interested in how the S7 bolt does in your guns. Pretty sure I've seen one or two 1400rpm videos of yours. Along with audio of you talking to the ATF about an accidental F1 machinegun approval. View Quote |
|
Quoted:
This is a sample size of one but I've been using the reliabolts in my demo full autos. Zero issues and I have one bolt with 20K+ though it and about 5 more with 10k+ through them. Sharps seem to have fixed the early issues with heat treatment which was when those errors occured. View Quote |
|
I do plan on running these in some high round count semi auto's. Probably no 1400rpm traffic, but I'm hoping to get close to 1,000
|
|
|
Looks great. This thread went way off track. I’d still like to know if U.S. Anodizing will anodize small parts for individuals. I have a buffer tube and some other things I’d like done in XM Gray.
|
|
Quoted:
Looks great. This thread went way off track. I’d still like to know if U.S. Anodizing will anodize small parts for individuals. I have a buffer tube and some other things I’d like done in XM Gray. View Quote |
|
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.