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Posted: 9/13/2017 8:01:45 PM EDT
[#1]
Did they do a prepurchase? I hadn't heard of that.
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Posted: 9/13/2017 8:36:14 PM EDT
[#2]
Sorry, just edited my post
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Posted: 9/13/2017 8:45:24 PM EDT
[#3]
Take a look at Fulton Armory Legacy rifles for about 1/2 the cost of the Colts. For another $75 Fulton will pin the gas block. Very happy with mine.
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Posted: 9/13/2017 9:16:10 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did they do a prepurchase? I hadn't heard of that. |
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Posted: 9/13/2017 11:38:37 PM EDT
[#5]
They weren't completely historically accurate, and when I saw the prices, I kinda lost interest.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 12:22:24 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They weren't completely historically accurate, and when I saw the prices, I kinda lost interest. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 3:46:17 AM EDT
[#7]
I'll offer the differing viewpoint on these. I think they will be outstanding when they finally get to market. Things are taking longer than anticipated as virtually all the parts going into them are newly produced with great attention to detail. I had the opportunity to see samples of the M16A1 and XM177E2 rifles at the Reno gun show a couple weeks ago.
The roll marks are just about perfect and the furniture for the M16A1 had great fit and finish with a few small areas needing revision of the mold to be perfect. The XM177E2 buttstock is as close to original as you will ever see, every part newly made and vinyl acetate coated as originally done. The only concession on the XM177E2 is an additional .700" between the front sight base and the back of the grenade washer to achieve legal barrel length. The dummy noise and flash suppressors will be attached to the barrel and electron beam welded at the muzzle to fix them in place. The 6-hole carbine handguards looked good with the shiny finish seen on early examples. Still some bugs to work out for sure but they are really going to look great. Face it, this is a tough crowd to please and these rifles may never look as good as a custom marked 80% receiver built up with 100% original period parts. But that task isn't for everyone and it isn't exactly cheap anymore either. You can certainly complain about the expected price on these but comparing the final results with a Troy or Fulton product wouldn't be right. They will be in a class by themselves. Sorry about the crappy photo but I just had to get one while the gun was in hand. 
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Posted: 9/14/2017 7:34:05 AM EDT
[#8]
The lower looks black but that issue could be fixed by the time these hit the market. I too pre-purchased the rifle version of the reissue gun and was told June or July would be the date of issue. Tick, Tick, Tick......
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Posted: 9/14/2017 10:46:46 AM EDT
[#9]
The fact remains that no one really know for sure when these things are going to be released for distribution and how they will actually look. Regardless, still not worth the price tag for a non-Colt produced retro AR. For those who do not know, these are being made by US Ordnance in McCarran, NV.
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Posted: 9/14/2017 11:10:40 AM EDT
[#10]
Isn't US Ordanance a DoD contractor or something?
Would they have the same/similar QC standard as Colt? I am still kind of interested, TBH, due to the authentic markings and the 'Colt Grey' anodizing. However, we will have to see how it turn out in the end... it might be less than what we expected, or it might be everything we expected... or it might forever be just a vaporware. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 9:12:16 PM EDT
[#11]
I spoke with one of the folks involved today with deep ties to Colt and involved with some of their other cool projects.
He told me January on the M16A1s I also got to see one of the XM177E2 marked lowers that he said was a test piece and was being destroyed due to initial roll mark issues. It looked pretty good other than shallow manufacturers roll marks and anodized blackish. He said it was a test piece and the anodizing was much darker partially because it was a small batch and they are still working on getting the right shade. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 9:15:11 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I spoke with one of the folks involved today with deep ties to Colt and involved with some of their other cool projects. He told me January on the M16A1s I also got to see one of the XM177E2 marked lowers that he said was a test piece and was being destroyed due to initial roll mark issues. It looked pretty good other than shallow manufacturers roll marks and anodized blackish. He said it was a test piece and the anodizing was much darker partially because it was a small batch and they are still working on getting the right shade. |
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Posted: 9/14/2017 9:39:46 PM EDT
[#13]
I tried that, no go at this station
Another interesting thing is he said they owned the forging dies for the A1 lowers and not being sourced from elsewhere. And SBRs are supposed to be in the works. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 12:07:40 AM EDT
[#14]
Here is a dream of mine...its only a dream I know. If they have the A1 forgings...maybe one day A1 lowers with the Colt markings may be sold separately. Just a dream.
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Posted: 9/15/2017 2:48:42 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here is a dream of mine...its only a dream I know. If they have the A1 forgings...maybe one day A1 lowers with the Colt markings may be sold separately. Just a dream. On another hand, I bet that Brownells will start selling entire rifles, as they pretty much have everything required to make a repro clone. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 8:13:47 AM EDT
[#16]
Colt is a soup sandwich!
He told me the story of a run of threaded barrel commanders they were doing and Talo had even ordered some. Management came in and said "we can't sell things with threaded barrels, somebody may put a suppresser on there and suppressers are icky." Instead of swapping the barrels and selling the threaded ones or better yet just leave them alone and sell as is they told them to cut the threads off all the barrels. For such an iconic brand to be so mismanaged is a shame.
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Posted: 9/15/2017 5:54:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For such an iconic brand to be so mismanaged is a shame. Following on to boeing727222's dream, my dream would be to win a big almost-a-billion lottery, buy Colt outright and move it to a right-to-work state like Sparta, Tennessee, Guntown, Mississippi, or maybe some colorfully-named place in Texas like Gun Barrel City, Holliday (as in Doc), Liberty, Point Blank or The Colony. My favorite would have to be Colt, Arkansas (real place). Anyhow, I'd go all-in on historic things like GI spec 1911/1911A1s and BARs, SP-1 type guns, early Colt M16 variants from 601 to 607, carbines and other variants, then start looking at ways to bring back revolvers like the "Snakes" and Single Action Action Army, and so on. Colt has left so much on the table over the years, it's truly a shame. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 6:58:17 PM EDT
[#18]
From the stories I have heard that's only half the problem. So much waste of actual products too.
Supposedly the custom shop, which is all but nonexistent now, will not build using other manufacturers parts now. No Wilson, Ed Brown, EGW etc and will be built using in house manufactured parts only. Oh, and all the parts they did have... They sold them off as scrap! Supposedly they still build single action army's at the break neck rate of 35/month 
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Posted: 9/15/2017 8:13:45 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Man you sure got that right. Following on to boeing727222's dream, my dream would be to win a big almost-a-billion lottery, buy Colt outright and move it to a right-to-work state like Sparta, Tennessee, Guntown, Mississippi, or maybe some colorfully-named place in Texas like Gun Barrel City, Holliday (as in Doc), Liberty, Point Blank or The Colony... Personally, I think the plan to move "down south" is good, other than beating up on the workforce with "Right to Work". I'd rather have skilled American professionals running the manufacturing process, and would be willing to pay for that level of expertise. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 9:17:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Except that many of those very people and even tooling and equipment don't exist any more. The Custom Shop is I believe two people right now, they have two engravers. They won't use the parts people want and they are wasting in epic proportions.
They don't have the talent to build things like Pythons anymore. They relied on military contracts that have since dried up, they can't pay their bills and yet they continue to do the same stupid stuff and wonder why they can't get out of financial trouble. I and many others can give them simple answers of how to turn the business around but they would screw it up again anyway. Their name alone is almost a license to print money for many but they can't manage to do it. As an acknowledged Colt fanboy it makes me sad. |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 9:33:06 PM EDT
[#21]
There are still people who are precise enough to make Pythons, even though some would need to be trained. As an example, there are several skilled craftsmen right here in Retroland. That level of skill and dedication doesn't come cheaply though. Skilled professionals are not brought on board with "Right to Work" slave wages.
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Posted: 9/15/2017 9:40:58 PM EDT
[#22]
Sorry, I meant that they don't exist at Colt anymore and not that they don't exist in the general population.
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Posted: 9/15/2017 10:56:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Hello. So you're saying all the parts on the photographed carbine are new production, not old stock put on one of the new lowers?
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll offer the differing viewpoint on these. I think they will be outstanding when they finally get to market. Things are taking longer than anticipated as virtually all the parts going into them are newly produced with great attention to detail. I had the opportunity to see samples of the M16A1 and XM177E2 rifles at the Reno gun show a couple weeks ago. The roll marks are just about perfect and the furniture for the M16A1 had great fit and finish with a few small areas needing revision of the mold to be perfect. The XM177E2 buttstock is as close to original as you will ever see, every part newly made and vinyl acetate coated as originally done. The only concession on the XM177E2 is an additional .700" between the front sight base and the back of the grenade washer to achieve legal barrel length. The dummy noise and flash suppressors will be attached to the barrel and electron beam welded at the muzzle to fix them in place. The 6-hole carbine handguards looked good with the shiny finish seen on early examples. Still some bugs to work out for sure but they are really going to look great. Face it, this is a tough crowd to please and these rifles may never look as good as a custom marked 80% receiver built up with 100% original period parts. But that task isn't for everyone and it isn't exactly cheap anymore either. You can certainly complain about the expected price on these but comparing the final results with a Troy or Fulton product wouldn't be right. They will be in a class by themselves. Sorry about the crappy photo but I just had to get one while the gun was in hand. https://photos.imageevent.com/ricklarson/gunphotos/large/U.S.XOrdXXM177E2XRenoXAugX2017XXXX1.JPG |
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Posted: 9/15/2017 11:58:06 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hello. So you're saying all the parts on the photographed carbine are new production, not old stock put on one of the new lowers? One of the models anticipated for the future will be a Commando/XM177E1. We didn't discuss it much but I think it will be offered as an SBR as there would be no way to make it look close to original with 2" of extra barrel length. I did get to see one of the N1 type stocks that was anodized grey instead of vinyl acetate coated and it looked great too. Regarding spare parts, the word is they will eventually be available but not until all of the production model guns are made and sold. That's not great news for the Retro guys here but they view selling loose parts as inhibiting sales of whole guns. We're just going to have to wait a few years for parts. The question about U.S. Ordnance being a DOD contractor with adequate QC is an easy one. They just finished up a 3-year contract for M2HB stellite lined barrels and are just starting a 5-year contract to build complete .50 cal guns for DOD in several configurations. Yes, they are qualified to make good parts. |
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Posted: 9/16/2017 10:59:52 AM EDT
[#25]
With such high start up/tooling costs, it seems to me these would eventually be regularly available rifles, not just limited to 2k special edition units
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Posted: 9/19/2017 11:41:07 PM EDT
[#26]
Well, since I entered life in 1969 I missed the Jan 1964 launch of the SP1. If I was around and president of Colt here is the way this would have played out. It's 1963 and we are designing the semi auto sporting version of our currently manufactured Model 602. I would do what Colt did...give us a near identical civilian Semi Auto slab side upper and lower Model 602, but with some changes. The semi auto rifle would have an un-captive pivot pin like the 602 (no way would I ever put a ridiculous please the Feds double headed screw up front). My version would never shave the half moon selector lever stops over safe and auto. Why does Colt still do this to this freakin day? The upper is the full auto version, but the lower is modified like the actual SP1 with no auto sear pin drilled in. Fire control components are also modified for semi auto only. Markings are same as on our select fire rifles except no "Property of US Govt" and with Model 02sp (sporter) instead of Model 02. Screw the "Fire" you get "Semi". As we make improvements to the rifle including XM and A1 uppers and lowers, and all other improvements they would transfer to the Semi Auto version. We would all be in retro heaven!
I am glad many other share my dream. What Colt is doing or subcontracting out to do should have been done years ago. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 1:37:43 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The lower looks black but that issue could be fixed by the time these hit the market. I too pre-purchased the rifle version of the reissue gun and was told June or July would be the date of issue. Tick, Tick, Tick...... |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 1:42:19 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The fact remains that no one really know for sure when these things are going to be released for distribution and how they will actually look. Regardless, still not worth the price tag for a non-Colt produced retro AR. For those who do not know, these are being made by US Ordnance in McCarran, NV. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 7:58:11 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When did US Ordnance start to make them? US Armament Corp. is suppose to build them. I had a in-depth conversion with Curtis(president) about them at SHOT. |
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Posted: 9/20/2017 7:16:10 PM EDT
[#30]
Colt has been promising repros for years now. Every time someone inquires as to release date, Colt keeps postponing dates. Then rumors of Colt subcontracting another company reproducing retros for them. Now we're seeing Brownells sell uppers, lowers, barrels, and of lately repro furniture.
Read the writing on the wall. Might be that those companies are selling parts originally designated for Colt to Brownells.Colt will probably NEVER release them. At best, may release a few contracted by other companies to those who prepaid. And the new made repro stuff will never be the quality of the originals. Personally wouldn't purchase one for myself anyway. NOS original parts have all but dried up and are quite expensive, but are of the best quality and originality you can purchase. Young people think the M4 purchase makes them THE operator. Colt keeps manufacturing them cheaper in attempt to compete with all the aftermarket name companies because that's what the uninformed young ones want. As for the estimated cost of the repros being approximately $2500, I know a few guys would sell their NOS ALL original Colt part builds on properly marked excellent Nodak receivers for near that price. I don't think repros will ever be released. |
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Posted: 9/21/2017 7:57:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Imagine, owning a Colt with these on it (yellow):
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Posted: 9/21/2017 8:26:24 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Imagine, owning a Colt with these on it (yellow): https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/228605/U_S_XOrdXXM177E2XRenoXAugX2017XXXX1_JPG-313448.jpg |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 11:41:55 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Many (if not most) of us DO own Colts WITH those markings on our clones. |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 1:33:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
no doubt, but you misunderstood. i'm just saying it will be cool to be able to buy a rifle direct from colt with selector bumps.  Attached File |
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Posted: 9/22/2017 3:07:09 PM EDT
[#35]
Very very nice jrs93accord!
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Posted: 9/23/2017 6:44:40 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This may be all well and good, but can the selector do this? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/76904/1967_M16A1l-313950.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
no doubt, but you misunderstood. i'm just saying it will be cool to be able to buy a rifle direct from colt with selector bumps. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/76904/1967_M16A1l-313950.JPG |
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