The Vietnam War - Ken Burns documentary

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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - The Vietnam War - Ken Burns documentary (Page 1 of 3)

Posted: 8/1/2017 9:16:44 AM EDT

Described as his most ambitious film yet, which would be saying something considering his Civil War series, in ten parts start airing Sunday Sept 17 on PBS. I hope he doesn't eff this up but it is PBS after all.

Link to PBS website #1

And #2

Posted: 8/1/2017 9:45:40 AM EDT

[#1]

The problem with Ken is that he adds his beliefs and political views into his films. The Civil War one is full of historically incorrect information that he chose to replace with legend. Let's hope he has learned and keeps this one to just the facts.

Posted: 8/1/2017 10:28:26 AM EDT

[#2]

How long does it take to say that LBJ screwed up several generations of Americans and that the leftist god, Walter Cronkite, should have fallen out of a B-17's bomb bay, somewhere over Europe.

Posted: 8/1/2017 10:41:11 AM EDT

[#3]

After watching the preview, I think I will skip this one. Too much revisionism for me. I prefer to read the works of various historians on our country's wars and also the memoirs of the soldiers who took part in them. Yeah, reading takes a lot more time and patience, but I am retired so I read every afternoon. I am currently reading Sir Edward Spears' "Liason 1914."

Posted: 8/1/2017 12:11:41 PM EDT

[#4]

I'll wait for it to be on Netflix or Amazon so I can fast forward through all the social justice I'm sure it will be rife with

Posted: 8/1/2017 4:20:51 PM EDT

[#5]

'Brothers at War' on Netflix is a good watch as well.

Posted: 8/1/2017 5:43:23 PM EDT

[#6]

I'm reasonably excited for it because of the historical footage if nothing else. I'll second Brothers at War as being pretty decent as well.

Posted: 8/1/2017 6:26:09 PM EDT

[#7]

I'm not a huge fan of Ken Burns. His Jefferson documentary wasn't too bad though, if I recall.

Posted: 9/17/2017 1:58:34 PM EDT

[#8]

Reminder this starts tonight. I too am looking for the historical footage more than his slant on history.

Posted: 9/17/2017 9:39:18 PM EDT

[#9]

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Reminder this starts tonight. I too am looking for the historical footage more than his slant on history.

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So far no slant on history in the first episode.

Posted: 9/17/2017 10:24:10 PM EDT

[#10]

They did a pretty good job of just talking about the history of the war, with no real political slant.

Posted: 9/18/2017 7:02:23 AM EDT

[#11]

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They did a pretty good job of just talking about the history of the war, with no real political slant.

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Agreed. It's been better than I was looking forward to.

One big miss so far is the history of Viet Nam before the French, and how it was they came to be so xenophobic. Leaving out the many years of Chinese invasion and subjugation and the rebellions and wars to throw them back out was a big mistake, and detrimental to a basic understanding of what makes them tick.

Posted: 9/18/2017 7:15:07 AM EDT

[#12]

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So far no slant on history in the first episode.

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+1

Posted: 9/18/2017 10:02:51 AM EDT

[#13]

Interview with Ken Burns and Lynn Novick about the process.

Fascinating.
Link here

Posted: 9/19/2017 7:35:22 AM EDT

[#14]

...could not believe JFK's line last night in like 1963: "...I'd pull out all the troops now execpt we'd loose the next election..." or words to that efffect...so we subsequently sent hundreds of thousands into the meat grinder for the next 10 years so the Dem's could keep the White House and consolidate their power over us...

Posted: 9/19/2017 9:00:58 AM EDT

[#15]

I have done a lot of reading over the past 50+ years about 20th century history and wars so much of this is already known to me. I do have some observations I that have coalesced in my brain during all this reading.

A- Characterizing the wars in VN as civil wars is just a twisted rationalization by many to justify our leadership's immoral actions and the wasting of so much human potential. VN like Korea WAS a war against communist mass murder and enslavement.

B- If you listen to Cronkite's words he calls out exactly who needed calling out. You have to listen close to hear him say "....and this strategy.....". He's calling out LBJ but in an oblique manner.

C- Much like today, the media of the 60s was a tool of our the enemies of the American people. Ditto on college campuses and the professors.

In the past few months I have met some interesting people that I would like to spend more time with. One was an FAC in VN in 1964 flying L19s. The others are Vietnamese living here now that I met in various hospitals over the last 2 years. It was very interesting talking with them and I would love to spend a few hours picking their brains. They are all poster children for how coming to America as true refugees is supposed to work out.

Posted: 9/19/2017 9:27:48 AM EDT

[#16]

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In the past few months I have met some interesting people that I would like to spend more time with. One was an FAC in VN in 1964 flying L19s. The others are Vietnamese living here now that I met in various hospitals over the last 2 years. It was very interesting talking with them and I would love to spend a few hours picking their brains. They are all poster children for how coming to America as true refugees is supposed to work out.

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Couple years ago I was in southeast Georgia on business and having a free afternoon, visited the Infantry Museum at Fort Benning. Walking up the steps, I met a young sergeant E-5 walking down the steps who was "standing tall and looking good" as we used to say back-in-the-day with a combat patch on his right shoulder and a Combat Infantryman's Badge on his left breast. His name tag read Nguyen.

Being as how the last time I was at Fort Benning was as a young sergeant E-5 going out the main gate on my way to Viet Nam, and the last sergeant Nguyen I'd seen had a very different rank insignia on his very different uniform, it was a very surreal experience to say the least of it. I should have talked to the young troop a bit, thanked him for his service and asked about his family's journey and all, but was too gob-smacked to say a word to him. I've been kicking my own ass about that ever since.

Posted: 9/19/2017 9:31:43 AM EDT

[#17]

Not a fan of "hair boy" Burns. Hey guys check out the documentary entitled "The battle of Long Tan". Very hairy day for the Aussies.

Posted: 9/19/2017 12:18:31 PM EDT

[#18]

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Couple years ago I was in southeast Georgia on business and having a free afternoon, visited the Infantry Museum at Fort Benning. Walking up the steps, I met a young sergeant E-5 walking down the steps who was "standing tall and looking good" as we used to say back-in-the-day with a combat patch on his right shoulder and a Combat Infantryman's Badge on his left breast. His name tag read Nguyen.

Being as how the last time I was at Fort Benning was as a young sergeant E-5 going out the main gate on my way to Viet Nam, and the last sergeant Nguyen I'd seen had a very different rank insignia on his very different uniform, it was a very surreal experience to say the least of it. I should have talked to the young troop a bit, thanked him for his service and asked about his family's journey and all, but was too gob-smacked to say a word to him. I've been kicking my own ass about that ever since.

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The GI doc that cared for me during my recent bout [ ain't no 'bout about it !!! ] of pancreatitis has the last name of Nguyen. I did a follow up with him at his office and after it was too late I came up with the idea of asking that one of his [ all VN ] female staff wear an ao dai the day I came in. His very nice looking PA was wearing a completely American short skirt :) . We did discuss VN 'current' events for a few minutes including Nguyen Cao Ky and his daughter. One of my recent reads was Westmoreland's 'A Soldier Reports" which I highly recommend for an inside look at the leadership of VN in the 60s.

Posted: 9/19/2017 2:52:22 PM EDT

[#19]

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...could not believe JFK's line last night in like 1963: "...I'd pull out all the troops now execpt we'd loose the next election..." or words to that efffect...so we subsequently sent hundreds of thousands into the meat grinder for the next 10 years so the Dem's could keep the White House and consolidate their power over us...

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This. I was nauseated when I heard that.

Posted: 9/19/2017 7:32:53 PM EDT

[#20]

I watched too. Gonna watch again the Deja Vu segment. Was that the first segment? Did Burns leave out the fact that when the French asked Eisenhower for help, he asked Congress and Congress said no. Johnson (LBJ) was the deciding factor in the no vote.

Posted: 9/19/2017 8:51:20 PM EDT

[#21]

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This. I was nauseated when I heard that.

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Quoted:
...could not believe JFK's line last night in like 1963: "...I'd pull out all the troops now execpt we'd loose the next election..." or words to that efffect...so we subsequently sent hundreds of thousands into the meat grinder for the next 10 years so the Dem's could keep the White House and consolidate their power over us...

This. I was nauseated when I heard that.

I was disgusted but not shocked.

Posted: 9/19/2017 8:55:52 PM EDT

[#22]

Just watched episode one and liked it .

Posted: 9/20/2017 12:31:16 PM EDT

[#23]

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...could not believe JFK's line last night in like 1963: "...I'd pull out all the troops now execpt we'd loose the next election..." or words to that efffect...so we subsequently sent hundreds of thousands into the meat grinder for the next 10 years so the Dem's could keep the White House and consolidate their power over us...

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I will have to watch again. I heard nothing close to that being said.

Posted: 9/20/2017 12:47:32 PM EDT

[#24]

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I will have to watch again. I heard nothing close to that being said.

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It was said, many of us heard it and it created a bit of bitterness among the guys in the service as well as those going in the service at that time. I have also read quite a few books about the politics and well as the mismanagement of the ground war that mentions this statement that Kennedy made. It was in the second episode, which I believe Netflix now has available, I noticed last night they had the splash page up for this show on their Documentary area.

Posted: 9/20/2017 1:48:40 PM EDT

[#25]

I guess I haven't been paying much attention to Ken Burn's personal take on things. I have never watched anything of his that didn't leave me awe struck. I feel his documentaries are probably the best thing on television.

Lost my cousin on April 27, 1969. H Co., 2nd Battalion, 5th Marines. Part of the 1st. Marine Div. I graduated high school three weeks after the end of the war.

The government learned an important lesson from Vietnam, never allow live fighting videos on TV ever again. The high casualty rates and daily hot action scenes served up for desert every evening made public opinion go south on the war very quickly.

Most people were caught in the middle, torn between the desire to retaliate on a huge scale or stop the madness so nobody else would have to suffer our loss. I wanted to retaliate.

I have a nephew in the Rakkasans 187-3 Inf. Regiment, 101st. Airborne. We are very proud of his service and pray for his safe return. War is hell.

Posted: 9/20/2017 2:48:59 PM EDT

[#26]

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I will have to watch again. I heard nothing close to that being said.

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It was something he said into his taped diary IIRC.

Posted: 9/20/2017 9:52:13 PM EDT

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:
Couple years ago I was in southeast Georgia on business and having a free afternoon, visited the Infantry Museum at Fort Benning. Walking up the steps, I met a young sergeant E-5 walking down the steps who was "standing tall and looking good" as we used to say back-in-the-day with a combat patch on his right shoulder and a Combat Infantryman's Badge on his left breast. His name tag read Nguyen.

Being as how the last time I was at Fort Benning was as a young sergeant E-5 going out the main gate on my way to Viet Nam, and the last sergeant Nguyen I'd seen had a very different rank insignia on his very different uniform, it was a very surreal experience to say the least of it. I should have talked to the young troop a bit, thanked him for his service and asked about his family's journey and all, but was too gob-smacked to say a word to him. I've been kicking my own ass about that ever since.

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Quoted:

In the past few months I have met some interesting people that I would like to spend more time with. One was an FAC in VN in 1964 flying L19s. The others are Vietnamese living here now that I met in various hospitals over the last 2 years. It was very interesting talking with them and I would love to spend a few hours picking their brains. They are all poster children for how coming to America as true refugees is supposed to work out.

Couple years ago I was in southeast Georgia on business and having a free afternoon, visited the Infantry Museum at Fort Benning. Walking up the steps, I met a young sergeant E-5 walking down the steps who was "standing tall and looking good" as we used to say back-in-the-day with a combat patch on his right shoulder and a Combat Infantryman's Badge on his left breast. His name tag read Nguyen.

Being as how the last time I was at Fort Benning was as a young sergeant E-5 going out the main gate on my way to Viet Nam, and the last sergeant Nguyen I'd seen had a very different rank insignia on his very different uniform, it was a very surreal experience to say the least of it. I should have talked to the young troop a bit, thanked him for his service and asked about his family's journey and all, but was too gob-smacked to say a word to him. I've been kicking my own ass about that ever since.

I was born there but too young to remember anything. Been watching this series and have had the good fortune of being able to talk to my dad who was in the South Vietnamese Air Force about it. He said Episode 1 was pretty much spot on but that they missed how Diem rigged the referendum. He said the corruption in the south was tragic, but the atrocities committed by the communists made it look like child's play. I'm now hearing stories upon stories. He never really talked about the war much growing up. He's the kind to just keep quiet and plod along. I remember being dirt poor when we came to the US and he refused to get on welfare saying we should earn what we get. He's also the one that taught me about guns. He was a big collector in Vietnam and would shoot competitively in France. One of his most prized possessions was an M14 he bought, and some 308 match rounds that his friends in the US military gave him.

Posted: 9/20/2017 10:47:07 PM EDT

[#28]

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I , but the atrocities committed by the communists made it look like child's play. I'm now hearing stories upon stories. .

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Burns is glossing over or totally leaving out the wholesale murder by the communists of innocent civilians in both the north and south. There was in particular the NVN girl whose parents "...were victims of the land reforms..." or something along those lines. Normal communist activity. Murder the parents and brainwash their offspring.

Posted: 9/20/2017 10:51:06 PM EDT

[#29]

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Burns is glossing over or totally leaving out the wholesale murder by the communists of innocent civilians in both the north and south. There was in particular the NVN girl whose parents "...were victims of the land reforms..." or something along those lines. Normal communist activity. Murder the parents and brainwash their offspring.

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Quoted:

I , but the atrocities committed by the communists made it look like child's play. I'm now hearing stories upon stories. .

Burns is glossing over or totally leaving out the wholesale murder by the communists of innocent civilians in both the north and south. There was in particular the NVN girl whose parents "...were victims of the land reforms..." or something along those lines. Normal communist activity. Murder the parents and brainwash their offspring.

Yeah, it was only briefly mentioned. I'm hoping he covers it more in upcoming episodes (I'm only at 4). If the Hue massacres of 68 aren't showed as they were, then that's a real black eye on this series. I think it's mostly been balanced though so far. Let's see if they talk about what the reds did in Combodia too.

ETA: Dad (who is buddhist) also said it's not accurate how the South's crackdown on the "poor buddhists" are being portrayed as the communists were largely using the buddhists as pawns, and the monks were carrying out a lot of provocation

Posted: 9/21/2017 3:06:57 AM EDT

[#30]

Episodes are also available on YouTube!

Posted: 9/21/2017 7:09:27 AM EDT

[#31]

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ETA: Dad (who is buddhist) also said it's not accurate how the South's crackdown on the "poor buddhists" are being portrayed as the communists were largely using the buddhists as pawns, and the monks were carrying out a lot of provocation

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I talked about this with Dr. Nguyen, the various groups fighting each other in SVN while the real danger is right there in front of them. The truth is , that unless the the US started bombing ALL the cities and every piece of infrastructure in NVN and kept bombing until the north pulled all their people out of SVN, Cambodia and Laos then there was never any way for the south to remain free. It was basically SVN and the US against the entire communist world and communist never give up their dreams of world domination. That's why you have to kill them relentlessly. It's the only solution. My current read is "Blood Lands" which chronicles the killing done by Stalin and Hitler from 1933 to 1945. Lenin and Stalin of course set the example for all communists to follow. Murder in astonishing unbelievable numbers to eliminate present and potential future internal opposition.

Posted: 9/21/2017 4:38:37 PM EDT

[#32]

I was kinda surprised to see a couple of these:

Posted: 9/21/2017 4:47:32 PM EDT

[#33]

I completely and totally despise documentaries that use any reenactment crap with actors in uni's like its a movie or something. Show me period footage, charts, pics, etc and when those run out just show the talking head.

Posted: 9/21/2017 7:35:46 PM EDT

[#34]

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I was kinda surprised to see a couple of these:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/308128/IMG_9962-313266.jpg

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That's mostly what I've seen.
I did see a Win Model 97 trench gun

Posted: 9/21/2017 7:41:01 PM EDT

[#35]

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I completely and totally despise documentaries that use any reenactment crap with actors in uni's like its a movie or something. Show me period footage, charts, pics, etc and when those run out just show the talking head.

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I have not seen any reenactments in this one?

Posted: 9/21/2017 7:46:11 PM EDT

[#36]

I have not seen any reenactments either . Lot of WWII weapons seen . I believe I even saw a STG 44

For sure Mausers and Thompsons , BARS , M1 , and carbines

Posted: 9/21/2017 7:58:24 PM EDT

[#37]

I know when we first went to VN, we did not have a good inventory of the AR platform rifles, so there were a lot of the older guns deployed, there were a lot of M1 Garand's in last nights episode.

Posted: 9/21/2017 8:09:32 PM EDT

[#38]

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I have not seen any reenactments in this one?

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I completely and totally despise documentaries that use any reenactment crap with actors in uni's like its a movie or something. Show me period footage, charts, pics, etc and when those run out just show the talking head.

I have not seen any reenactments in this one?

That was in response to what looks like a movie prop gun in the previous post. I haven't seen any reenactment stuff.

Posted: 9/21/2017 11:14:47 PM EDT

[#39]

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I'm now hearing stories upon stories. He never really talked about the war much growing up.

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For future generations of your family, be sure to write the stories down, better yet video them, if you haven't thought of that already. VNAF pilots were pretty good, for the most part. Some real warriors amongst them. I expect you're proud of him, and I'd be real surprised if you weren't.

Posted: 9/22/2017 1:31:50 AM EDT

[#40]

No re-enactments in Burn's film. In the early days, ARVN and advisers were armed predominantly with WW2 US weapons - Garand, 1903s, BARs. USGI M2 carbines and 45 SMGs (Thompsons and M3 "Grease Guns") were also very popular with the ARVN and the MAC-V "Advisors".

Vietcong had lots of US weapons taken from the French, and everything that the ARVN had. Lots of French SMGs with the funny folding magazine there too (MAS-49?). Also lots of Mosin Nagant carbines and SKS. It was not until the Mid to late 60s they got AK 47s.

My best friend was a Ranger Captain, and he used an East German folding stock AK47 he took off a enemy corpse. Another friend was an Advisor in 1962 or 1963. He used an M2 Carbine, and actually preferred it to the "new AR15" (601 or 602), because it was more reliable, and just as lethal at jungle ranges. Another friend who was a Chief on a RAG Boat had a Swedish K 9mm SMG he cot from a SEAL.

My brother was an officer (O-3) there and served two tours, 1967 to 1970. He had a .45 and an M16.

Posted: 9/22/2017 2:07:44 AM EDT

[#41]

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Agreed. It's been better than I was looking forward to.

One big miss so far is the history of Viet Nam before the French, and how it was they came to be so xenophobic. Leaving out the many years of Chinese invasion and subjugation and the rebellions and wars to throw them back out was a big mistake, and detrimental to a basic understanding of what makes them tick.

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Quoted:
They did a pretty good job of just talking about the history of the war, with no real political slant.

Agreed. It's been better than I was looking forward to.

One big miss so far is the history of Viet Nam before the French, and how it was they came to be so xenophobic. Leaving out the many years of Chinese invasion and subjugation and the rebellions and wars to throw them back out was a big mistake, and detrimental to a basic understanding of what makes them tick.

There is a well-entrenched school of thought in poli sci circles (which I generally disagree with) that counters the very idea. They have some point - the history itself is not as important as how the people of the contemporary era understand and interpret it (and it's often a very one-sided narrative) But, to the extent that people do, I agree it's important to discuss.

Posted: 9/22/2017 6:22:14 AM EDT

[#42]

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I was kinda surprised to see a couple of these:
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/308128/IMG_9962-313266.jpg

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I paused the video when I saw that close up also. Beautiful very early XM16E1. Maybe it's the lighting but the "fence" on that partial fence lower looks like it has sharp edges.

Posted: 9/22/2017 6:28:53 AM EDT

[#43]

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I paused the video when I saw that close up also. Beautiful very early XM16E1. Maybe it's the lighting but the "fence" on that partial fence lower looks like it has sharp edges.

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That is a really early one and not that common. We had 1 of those in the armory when I was in the service and they would not let anybody touch it!

Posted: 9/22/2017 9:23:09 AM EDT

[#44]

President Johnson's taped conversations about his reluctance to expand the war is interesting and was not what I had assumed happened at the time . The pressure from the other candidate that he was not doing enough was what tipped the scales for some of his decisions IMO

Posted: 9/22/2017 10:19:43 AM EDT

[#45]

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For future generations of your family, be sure to write the stories down, better yet video them, if you haven't thought of that already. VNAF pilots were pretty good, for the most part. Some real warriors amongst them. I expect you're proud of him, and I'd be real surprised if you weren't.

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That's a great idea. I think I will.

Certainly proud, never fully appreciated it as a kid but I do now.

Posted: 9/22/2017 12:56:36 PM EDT

[#46]

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That's a great idea. I think I will.

Certainly proud, never fully appreciated it as a kid but I do now.

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Thu was one of the nurses that took care of me during a long hospital stay 2 years ago. She said that her dad spent time in a re-education camp after 1975. He told her that he was surprised they didn't execute him.

I have no issue with the US trying to keep SVN free. Sadly, we were stuck with LBJ. Undoubtedly the worst human being to ever be president of this country. Few people realize how much Lee Harvey Oswald changed the trajectory of this country. Probably the pivotal moment of the last century. Much of what is wrong in America today has it's roots in LBJ's presidency.

Posted: 9/22/2017 3:49:45 PM EDT

[#47]

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Thu was one of the nurses that took care of me during a long hospital stay 2 years ago. She said that her dad spent time in a re-education camp after 1975. He told her that he was surprised they didn't execute him.

I have no issue with the US trying to keep SVN free. Sadly, we were stuck with LBJ. Undoubtedly the worst human being to ever be president of this country. Few people realize how much Lee Harvey Oswald changed the trajectory of this country. Probably the pivotal moment of the last century. Much of what is wrong in America today has it's roots in LBJ's presidency.

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And the left still celebrates him