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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:06:12 PM EDT
I picked up this upper with BCG, stock, spring and buffer today at the gun show. I want to use it as a start to a retro build but what version exactly? The BCG obviously doesn't belong to the upper so what should I do?
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:13:18 PM EDT
[#1]
Looks like a xm16e1 upper with wrong bcg, bonus edgewater buffer possible c stock. Nice score! So you have a xm16e1 project. U would need a partial fence lower and a very hard to find chrome carrier with serrations.
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:18:51 PM EDT
[#2]
I realized the lack of FA scales on the BC later on.
 Oh well.
This is the first time I've actually tried to do a retro build. ANy suggestions on where to go with it next? What lower etc...? EDIT: I see your edits above. Thanks. Are the non serrated chrome carriers less rare than the ones with serrations? |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:25:44 PM EDT
[#3]
The correct carrier will be hard to find, but you have a damn fine collection of parts there.
Square forge 603 uppers are damn hard to come by anymore |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 10:29:00 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The correct carrier will be hard to find, but you have a damn fine collection of parts there. Square forge 603 uppers are damn hard to come by anymore It is in exceptional shape it seems, very little wear inside. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:07:07 PM EDT
[#5]
Just in case it wasn't already clear:
That was an AWESOME retro score!!! 
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:11:38 PM EDT
[#6]
I second that, very nice
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just in case it wasn't already clear: That was an AWESOME retro score!!! |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:15:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I second that, very nice Quote HistoryQuoted:
I second that, very nice Quoted:
Just in case it wasn't already clear: That was an AWESOME retro score!!! Thanks guys. Not that I would or will (I'm going to build a rifle out of it) but what do you think an overall sale price of these parts should be ballpark if I were to list them? |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:18:27 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks guys. Not that I would or will (I'm going to build a rifle out of it) but what do you think an overall sale price of these parts should be ballpark if I were to list them? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I second that, very nice Quoted:
Just in case it wasn't already clear: That was an AWESOME retro score!!! Thanks guys. Not that I would or will (I'm going to build a rifle out of it) but what do you think an overall sale price of these parts should be ballpark if I were to list them? Post in the tacked appraisal thread 
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:23:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Post in the tacked appraisal thread Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I second that, very nice Quoted:
Just in case it wasn't already clear: That was an AWESOME retro score!!! Thanks guys. Not that I would or will (I'm going to build a rifle out of it) but what do you think an overall sale price of these parts should be ballpark if I were to list them? Post in the tacked appraisal thread Oh ya, forgot about that place. Sorry, thanks. |
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Posted: 8/29/2015 11:42:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Why did they change the retaining pin design as well as the firing pin? These retro parts seem better than the following new style. They just seem more refined.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:05:54 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did they change the retaining pin design as well as the firing pin? These retro parts seem better than the following new style. They just seem more refined. The newer retaining pin works just as well, and is cheaper to make. The older firing pin is heavier, and will occasionally cause slam-fires if you manually load a round into the chamber and release the bolt. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:23:22 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The newer retaining pin works just as well, and is cheaper to make. The older firing pin is heavier, and will occasionally cause slam-fires if you manually load a round into the chamber and release the bolt. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why did they change the retaining pin design as well as the firing pin? These retro parts seem better than the following new style. They just seem more refined. The newer retaining pin works just as well, and is cheaper to make. The older firing pin is heavier, and will occasionally cause slam-fires if you manually load a round into the chamber and release the bolt. Oh  those are darn good reasons.
I had never seen one of these old pins in person. It really is massive. Makes sense. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 2:02:02 AM EDT
[#13]
I don't think I've ever seen a square-forge XM upper that clean before. That's a really nice score ... I spy 2 builds--an XM16E1 and a 601/602 build down the road for that BCG! All we get at the LGS these days are over-priced Tacticool stuff, beef jerky and beanie babies
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Posted: 8/30/2015 2:02:57 AM EDT
[#14]
I personally think breakage is less with the new FP design - it's essentially a spring, instead of being a 'shear pin'. I think it's a huge improvement. Also, agree with what Pro2ndAm and Stahlgewehr762 posted.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 2:46:38 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think I've ever seen a square-forge XM upper that clean before. That's a really nice score ... I spy 2 builds--an XM16E1 and a 601/602 build down the road for that BCG! All we get at the LGS these days are over-priced Tacticool stuff, beef jerky and beanie babies Yes, I'm looking at it right now. Barely any wear. Man... this is gonna cost me, I can see that now.
I don't know what the reason is but the show this time was great. My dad and I were pretty much given up on the LGSs but decided to go. We went to the one in Topeka, KS and it was like a time machine. It was like what I recall in the early 90s. There was tons of stuff and the prices were really decent. We had a blast. Not much wear inside. 
Literally only one tiny scratch externally, barely visible right in front of the FA where it joins the upper. 
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Posted: 8/30/2015 3:03:44 AM EDT
[#16]
You just don't see really nice uppers like that anymore. You've got some really fine parts there, seriously.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 4:30:37 AM EDT
[#17]
How about some pics of the handguard's heat shields, and a side view of the gas tube while the handguards are off? We're trying to see if they're "no-drain hole" handguards and an "early-bend" gas tube. Both would be correct for this upper. Also check to see if the gas tube is magnetic or not.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:41:06 AM EDT
[#18]
It appears all original, rear sight assembly with dimpled screw, it should have an early bend gastube, type C handgaurds, It surely looks like a very early XM16E1 upper with the rebate under the port door, nice edgewater buffer, thats a D stock from what I can tell from the one picture. The bonus about the BCG is it's all original 601 with fathead firingpin and chrome retainer. HUGE SCORE
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Posted: 8/30/2015 12:53:22 PM EDT
[#19]
I had a hell of a time getting that ring to move.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:01:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Tube is non magnetic from what I can tell with a weak ass kitchen magnet clip thing.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:07:16 PM EDT
[#21]
mancow, That is a really sweet Upper Half you have there. FANTASTIC SCORE. Just the Upper Receiver alone is amazing. I don't think I read it in the thread, so can I ask what you paid for your Kit? |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:10:32 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
mancow, That is a really sweet Upper Half you have there. FANTASTIC SCORE. Just the Upper Receiver alone is amazing. I don't think I read it in the thread, so can I ask what you paid for your Kit? thanks $480 for everything. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:16:26 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
thanks $480 for everything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
mancow, That is a really sweet Upper Half you have there. FANTASTIC SCORE. Just the Upper Receiver alone is amazing. I don't think I read it in the thread, so can I ask what you paid for your Kit? thanks $480 for everything. I hate you so much
Congrats on an amazing score, with a little trading you can make yourself a hell of a XM16E1
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Posted: 8/30/2015 1:21:19 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hate you so much
Congrats on an amazing score, with a little trading you can make yourself a hell of a XM16E1
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
mancow, That is a really sweet Upper Half you have there. FANTASTIC SCORE. Just the Upper Receiver alone is amazing. I don't think I read it in the thread, so can I ask what you paid for your Kit? thanks $480 for everything. I hate you so much
Congrats on an amazing score, with a little trading you can make yourself a hell of a XM16E1
Thanks, I'm gonna need some guidance though. I've never tried to build a retro. I've only bought complete. If it were you what would you be looking for in a lower? It looks like I need a D stock according to this page but I have a C? What would you do about a BCG? Indications are it's an early upper and may have originally had a chrome group but possibly could have had parked parts if my reading is correct. Would you hold out for the elusive appropriate original chrome BGC or go with an aftermarket, or maybe just parked? All I know now is this **** is addictive. I now understand the whole picker collector appeal. All I want to do now is dig through the country side looking for more parts. I'm hooked! |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 2:10:10 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks, I'm gonna need some guidance though. I've never tried to build a retro. I've only bought complete. If it were you what would you be looking for in a lower? It looks like I need a D stock according to this page but I have a C? What would you do about a BCG? Indications are it's an early upper and may have originally had a chrome group but possibly could have had parked parts if my reading is correct. Would you hold out for the elusive appropriate original chrome BGC or go with an aftermarket, or maybe just parked? All I know now is this **** is addictive. I now understand the whole picker collector appeal. All I want to do now is dig through the country side looking for more parts. I'm hooked! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
mancow, That is a really sweet Upper Half you have there. FANTASTIC SCORE. Just the Upper Receiver alone is amazing. I don't think I read it in the thread, so can I ask what you paid for your Kit? thanks $480 for everything. I hate you so much
Congrats on an amazing score, with a little trading you can make yourself a hell of a XM16E1
Thanks, I'm gonna need some guidance though. I've never tried to build a retro. I've only bought complete. If it were you what would you be looking for in a lower? It looks like I need a D stock according to this page but I have a C? What would you do about a BCG? Indications are it's an early upper and may have originally had a chrome group but possibly could have had parked parts if my reading is correct. Would you hold out for the elusive appropriate original chrome BGC or go with an aftermarket, or maybe just parked? All I know now is this **** is addictive. I now understand the whole picker collector appeal. All I want to do now is dig through the country side looking for more parts. I'm hooked! Order an NDS Partial Fence lower immediately. Start collecting Colt lower parts. (And a wine colored buffer) Run a parkerized bolt until you find a suitable commercial chrome or the ever elusive XM16E1 Chrome Carrier. I don't know if your your stock is a "C" or "D" but that upper is almost as rare as the carrier you need for it! OUTSTANDING DEAL! WE ALL ENVY YOU! 
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Posted: 8/30/2015 2:15:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Actually that buffer is correct, but not everyone wants to use a $200 buffer that you can't see from the exterior and has its reasons why it was replaced.
That said I have one in my 602 that I leave in when I shoot. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 4:20:40 PM EDT
[#27]
Very nice find, thanks for posting pictures.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 4:22:14 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I had a hell of a time getting that ring to move. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114527_zpsmmlnjsds.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114533_zpsnrlutxd3.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114453_zpsxhnxu2gf.jpg You have the correct "no drain hole" handguards AND the "early bend" gas tube. The earliest "early bend" gas tubes were carbon steel, and therefore are magnetic, while the later "early bend" tubes were stainless steel. I seem to recall reading here that the early stainless tubes still have a weak magnetic attraction; can someone verify or correct this? Everything is in just amazing condition. It really doesn't get much better than this, here in Retroland. 
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Posted: 8/30/2015 4:29:35 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You have the correct "no drain hole" handguards AND the "early bend" gas tube. The earliest "early bend" gas tubes were carbon steel, and therefore are magnetic, while the later "early bend" tubes were stainless steel. I seem to recall reading here that the early stainless tubes still have a weak magnetic attraction; can someone verify or correct this? Everything is in just amazing condition. It really doesn't get much better than this, here in Retroland. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I had a hell of a time getting that ring to move. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114527_zpsmmlnjsds.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114533_zpsnrlutxd3.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114453_zpsxhnxu2gf.jpg You have the correct "no drain hole" handguards AND the "early bend" gas tube. The earliest "early bend" gas tubes were carbon steel, and therefore are magnetic, while the later "early bend" tubes were stainless steel. I seem to recall reading here that the early stainless tubes still have a weak magnetic attraction; can someone verify or correct this? Everything is in just amazing condition. It really doesn't get much better than this, here in Retroland. I have one that will hold a magnet in place while holding it verticle and another that isn't as magnetic and it slides and falls off. Guess it depends on the gastube... 
This Carbon Steel Early Bend is so magnetic, I can pick it up with the magnet in the picture. Type C stocks have sling swivels that are NOT rubber coated, have thin walls around where the buffertube slides in and there isn't a straw hole in the nub that fits into the lower except on late Type C's. If you take a few pics of the underside and the front, we can tell you if it's a C or D. Looks like a D to me but the picture isn't that great. |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 5:41:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have one that will hold a magnet in place while holding it verticle and another that isn't as magnetic and it slides and falls off. Guess it depends on the gastube... <a href="http://s236.photobucket.com/user/whiskey_024/media/_20150528_123426.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff306/whiskey_024/_20150528_123426.jpg</a> This Carbon Steel Early Bend is so magnetic, I can pick it up with the magnet in the picture. Type C stocks have sling swivels that are NOT rubber coated, have thin walls around where the buffertube slides in and there isn't a straw hole in the nub that fits into the lower except on late Type C's. If you take a few pics of the underside and the front, we can tell you if it's a C or D. Looks like a D to me but the picture isn't that great. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I had a hell of a time getting that ring to move. http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114527_zpsmmlnjsds.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114533_zpsnrlutxd3.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_114453_zpsxhnxu2gf.jpg You have the correct "no drain hole" handguards AND the "early bend" gas tube. The earliest "early bend" gas tubes were carbon steel, and therefore are magnetic, while the later "early bend" tubes were stainless steel. I seem to recall reading here that the early stainless tubes still have a weak magnetic attraction; can someone verify or correct this? Everything is in just amazing condition. It really doesn't get much better than this, here in Retroland. I have one that will hold a magnet in place while holding it verticle and another that isn't as magnetic and it slides and falls off. Guess it depends on the gastube... <a href="http://s236.photobucket.com/user/whiskey_024/media/_20150528_123426.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff306/whiskey_024/_20150528_123426.jpg</a> This Carbon Steel Early Bend is so magnetic, I can pick it up with the magnet in the picture. Type C stocks have sling swivels that are NOT rubber coated, have thin walls around where the buffertube slides in and there isn't a straw hole in the nub that fits into the lower except on late Type C's. If you take a few pics of the underside and the front, we can tell you if it's a C or D. Looks like a D to me but the picture isn't that great. Here are some more pics of the stock: 
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Posted: 8/30/2015 6:16:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Man you won the lottery those are some very rare valuable parts. If you ever want to sell the upper minus barrel let me know.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:09:50 PM EDT
[#32]
What state are you in op?
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:15:11 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What state are you in op? Kansas. Why, what's up? |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 7:44:00 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are some more pics of the stock: http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163256_zpsrt6fjazx.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163342_zpsekylk0oc.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163310_zpsqcpgpa4r.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163323_zps9v7xquz8.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163359_zpsj8r6ejvc.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163413_zpsgmlvz6tb.jpg Type D. That is an overall beautiful bunch of parts, and you definitely scored a great price. Congrats! Keep watching for the correct BCG. It'll be very satisfying when you finally find one! |
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Posted: 8/30/2015 8:53:35 PM EDT
[#35]
Build it with the BCG, but be looking for the right one. I'd be interested in the BCG if you find the correct one.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 10:39:01 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Type D. That is an overall beautiful bunch of parts, and you definitely scored a great price. Congrats! Keep watching for the correct BCG. It'll be very satisfying when you finally find one! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Here are some more pics of the stock: http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163256_zpsrt6fjazx.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163342_zpsekylk0oc.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163310_zpsqcpgpa4r.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163323_zps9v7xquz8.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163359_zpsj8r6ejvc.jpg http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o222/mancow_photos/public%20folder/Retro%20Upper/20150830_163413_zpsgmlvz6tb.jpg Type D. That is an overall beautiful bunch of parts, and you definitely scored a great price. Congrats! Keep watching for the correct BCG. It'll be very satisfying when you finally find one! So it has the correct stock (type D). It makes me wonder what the deal is with the non assist BCG and how it got in the mix but I'll probably just run it until a proper one is found. I really want a lower BAD now. 
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Posted: 8/30/2015 10:48:45 PM EDT
[#37]
Damn, nice score mancow. You made out like a bandit at 480.
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Posted: 8/30/2015 10:52:16 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Damn, nice score mancow. You made out like a bandit at 480. Thanks. I wish I had asked him if he had a source for any others but I was so excited at the time I couldn't think straight. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 10:18:37 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks. I wish I had asked him if he had a source for any others but I was so excited at the time I couldn't think straight. I would have been stupidly excited too. That is an exceptional upper and parts you have! In case you haven't realized it by now, that is a great score! I'd certainly say you should figure out what you want to build and get the lower ordered as soon as possible. Personally, I'd get an aftermarket BCG for the time being and put that nice early one aside for a different build. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 12:03:52 PM EDT
[#40]
mancow, Like I said in my earlier post, FANTASTIC SCORE, ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL !!! In my opinion, for you to build an M16E1, all you really need is the following parts: 1) NoDakSpud M16E1 Partial Fence Lower Receiver 2) Colt M16E1 Chrome BCG, but until you find one of those, I probably go with something like the Fail Zero NiB BCG (no markings to show thru Ejection Port) 3) A nice Wine Colored Buffer. Save that Edgewater Buffer, or, Trade it off for a Colt M16E1 BCG 4) A GOOD Lower Parts Kit 5) Some good ole Colt 20rd mags. 6) an M14 Nylon "Seatbelt" Sling Once you have the Rifle built then you can go to the range, and give us some more pic's and a Range Report. Good Luck to you, and will be looking forward to your updates. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 12:04:14 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would have been stupidly excited too. That is an exceptional upper and parts you have! In case you haven't realized it by now, that is a great score! I'd certainly say you should figure out what you want to build and get the lower ordered as soon as possible. Personally, I'd get an aftermarket BCG for the time being and put that nice early one aside for a different build. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Thanks. I wish I had asked him if he had a source for any others but I was so excited at the time I couldn't think straight. I would have been stupidly excited too. That is an exceptional upper and parts you have! In case you haven't realized it by now, that is a great score! I'd certainly say you should figure out what you want to build and get the lower ordered as soon as possible. Personally, I'd get an aftermarket BCG for the time being and put that nice early one aside for a different build. I guess I will build an XM16E1 type. I will order a NDS once they start making them again. I agree about the BCG. I will slap a regular on in it for the time being. BTW, I took it out this morning and put it on a FA lower  . She was nuts on accurate.
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Posted: 8/31/2015 12:07:59 PM EDT
[#42]
Originally Posted by mancow:
I guess I will build an XM16E1 type. I will order a NDS once they start making them again I would suggest that you call NDS, TODAY, and find out if they are making them to order, or in small lots. And get on their "Waiting List" NOW !!! |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 12:11:17 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would suggest that you call NDS, TODAY, and find out if they are making them to order, or in small lots. And get on their "Waiting List" NOW !!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Originally Posted by mancow:
I guess I will build an XM16E1 type. I will order a NDS once they start making them again I would suggest that you call NDS, TODAY, and find out if they are making them to order, or in small lots. And get on their "Waiting List" NOW !!! Just called and got on the list. Thanks. |
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Posted: 8/31/2015 2:11:09 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Kansas. Why, what's up? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What state are you in op? Kansas. Why, what's up? I missed the Local MI show, just wanted to make sure I really didn't miss out. |
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Posted: 9/1/2015 10:31:50 AM EDT
[#45]
Despite all the gun show bashing on Arfcom, that's the reason I still go. You never know when you're going to find a treasure. Nice score.
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Posted: 9/19/2015 2:36:37 AM EDT
[#46]
She runs well.
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