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Posted: 10/20/2017 9:49:08 AM EDT
[#1]
What letter?
If you are referring to a ''Pistol not becoming a SBR because of how it is held'' there is not going to be a special letter for each and every brace. The BATFE (does not) and did not give special consideration to any one brace that makes it allowed to be a stock. A brace is not a stock, period. A letter that addresses an interpretation from the ATF would be a general ruling that applies to all braces. Determining if a ''brace passes as a brace'' would be on a brace to brace basis. Determining how a brace can be held is a general concept that must apply to all. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 9:58:17 AM EDT
[#2]
They supposedly were seeking a written letter from ATF stating their braces are OK to shoulder too.
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:21:13 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They supposedly were seeking a written letter from ATF stating their braces are OK to shoulder too. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:35:15 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I've seen discussed is that the reason shouldering braces/tubes was ok, according to the ATF, was because they couldn't dictate what you did with an item once it was approved as legal to use. So I can use a brace for lashing to my arm for stability, shouldering, propping my office door open, etc...and legal means legal. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:36:48 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What I've seen discussed is that the reason shouldering braces/tubes was ok, according to the ATF, was because they couldn't dictate what you did with an item once it was approved as legal to use. So I can use a brace for lashing to my arm for stability, shouldering, propping my office door open, etc...and legal means legal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They supposedly were seeking a written letter from ATF stating their braces are OK to shoulder too. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:41:19 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
/end |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:46:54 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't care about the online jib-jab from people unqualified to speak on the topic. I care about what ATF says themselves. I've talked to two different agents in person who say SB Tactical interpretation of the letter is wrong, but they don't know when any of that is going to go into writing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What I've seen discussed is that the reason shouldering braces/tubes was ok, according to the ATF, was because they couldn't dictate what you did with an item once it was approved as legal to use. So I can use a brace for lashing to my arm for stability, shouldering, propping my office door open, etc...and legal means legal. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:48:40 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe you should write a letter. 
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:49:34 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't care about the online jib-jab from people unqualified to speak on the topic. I care about what ATF says themselves. I've talked to two different agents in person who say SB Tactical interpretation of the letter is wrong, but they don't know when any of that is going to go into writing. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
What I've seen discussed is that the reason shouldering braces/tubes was ok, according to the ATF, was because they couldn't dictate what you did with an item once it was approved as legal to use. So I can use a brace for lashing to my arm for stability, shouldering, propping my office door open, etc...and legal means legal. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:53:23 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Have you read the letter? If not, I suggest you do and make up your own mind. It's pretty clear regarding pistol braces. 
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Posted: 10/20/2017 10:59:45 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No i totally didn't read the letter at all before talking up two different ATF guys about it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Have you read the letter? If not, I suggest you do and make up your own mind. It's pretty clear regarding pistol braces. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:03:25 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF Agents are notorious for being ignorant on the very laws they're supposed to be enforcing. If they're not with Tech Branch or Legal, their personal opinion is just that. I'm not asking you to believe me, anyways. I'm just telling you what I know, and wondering if anyone has gotten anything new in writing. I have no idea how fast ATF is to process letters like that, though I suppose if it's anything like the NFA branch it could take quite a while... |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:06:10 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ATF Agents are notorious for being ignorant on the very laws they're supposed to be enforcing. If they're not with Tech Branch or Legal, their personal opinion is just that. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:09:36 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yep.....getting a FTB determination clarification from an "agent", who spends most of his time doing FFL compliance inspections, or busting cigarette resellers, is akin to getting the lowdown on US Strategic Nuclear policy from an E3 in a motorpool...... |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:12:13 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm, should I trust the opinion of someone wearing a badge... or an armchair commando... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yep.....getting a FTB determination clarification from an "agent", who spends most of his time doing FFL compliance inspections, or busting cigarette resellers, is akin to getting the lowdown on US Strategic Nuclear policy from an E3 in a motorpool...... |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:13:50 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm, should I trust the opinion of someone wearing a badge... or an armchair commando... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Yep.....getting a FTB determination clarification from an "agent", who spends most of his time doing FFL compliance inspections, or busting cigarette resellers, is akin to getting the lowdown on US Strategic Nuclear policy from an E3 in a motorpool...... |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:14:15 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seeing as the armchair commandos have been proven correct more often than the ATF agents... |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:14:45 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe you should have posted this in GD if you're going to sling insults. 
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:17:19 AM EDT
[#19]
Both agents told me that the directive the bureau has given them is that it is not legal to use a pistol brace as a shoulder stock. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:19:35 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No i totally didn't read the letter at all before talking up two different ATF guys about it 1. Call/email SB Tactical and ask them about it 2. Accept the answer we're giving you 3. Believe your ATF buddies 4. Call the ATF and ask them and while you have them on the phone ask if they recovered the rest of their weapons from their "Fast and Furious" operation. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:19:54 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And this is still the case, even with the latest letter. You can't use the brace intending for it to be a stock. It is, and always has been about intent. If you build the gun with the intent of using it as a stock, then it's a stock and it's an SBR. If it's built with the intent to use it as a brace, then it's fine. If through it's use as a brace, it touches your shoulder, the latest letter says that this does not constitute a redesign and it's not an SBR. How is this not clear to you? This is why some agents have said that even with the new letter, the ultimately nothing has changed. All it means is that they're not going to go after people for using the brace and it happens to touch their shoulder. Either way, didn't come here to argue just wanted to see if anyone found any new letters, which clearly it doesn't look that way. FWIW I do what I want on my private property. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:29:38 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmm, should I trust the opinion of someone wearing a badge... or an armchair commando... Why don't you just SBR whatever you're considering putting a brace on and shouldering ? That is your intent correct? |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 11:33:49 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Seems to me like you shouldn't have even bothered to ask here then...... Why don't you just SBR whatever you're considering putting a brace on and shouldering ? That is your intent correct? And I'm on day 139 of my wait on a Form 1 individual SBR. I just would've figured shockwave would have heard back from ATF by now, is all. Like i said though, if they're anything like the NFA branch then it can take a while. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 12:15:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't ask for people's opinions regarding what the letter had to say. Literally said I do not care about the online jib-jab from the start, I want word directly from the government body that has the power to enforce whatever it is. And I'm on day 139 of my wait on a Form 1 individual SBR. I just would've figured shockwave would have heard back from ATF by now, is all. Like i said though, if they're anything like the NFA branch then it can take a while. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 12:39:46 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FWIW I do what I want on my private property. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 12:45:46 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then what the hell would it matter.... 
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Posted: 10/20/2017 12:57:04 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't ask for people's opinions regarding what the letter had to say. Literally said I do not care about the online jib-jab from the start, I want word directly from the government body that has the power to enforce whatever it is. And I'm on day 139 of my wait on a Form 1 individual SBR. I just would've figured shockwave would have heard back from ATF by now, is all. Like i said though, if they're anything like the NFA branch then it can take a while. Your only question to members here was "How long does a letter response for something like that usually take, anyways?" And since that is a subjective question depending on many factors an educated opinion is all you will get here. Get your shit straight before being an ass to everyone else |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 1:07:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then GTFO ARFCOM, and contact those individuals/agencies. Your only question to members here was "How long does a letter response for something like that usually take, anyways?" And since that is a subjective question depending on many factors an educated opinion is all you will get here. Get your shit straight before being an ass to everyone else |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 2:50:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Concerned OP starts "online jib-jab" thread to declare his dislike of "online jib-jab".
Yep, you're suspect. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 3:02:35 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotta agree here. If what the OP wants is for the ATF, in writing, to tell him something AND he does not want discussion based on what we have read from the ATF....seems like he needs to contact the ATF directly. Anything else would seem like it defeats the purpose of a discussion on a forum. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Then GTFO ARFCOM, and contact those individuals/agencies. Your only question to members here was "How long does a letter response for something like that usually take, anyways?" And since that is a subjective question depending on many factors an educated opinion is all you will get here. Get your shit straight before being an ass to everyone else |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 3:11:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well I was hoping the good folks at shockwave would save me the effort. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Maybe you should write a letter. Enough with the GD letters already. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 4:46:07 PM EDT
[#32]
Wow, this thread did not go well.
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Posted: 10/20/2017 4:58:31 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wow, this thread did not go well. Most people are observant enough not to start them anymore. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 1:01:13 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Maybe you should write a letter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
What I've seen discussed is that the reason shouldering braces/tubes was ok, according to the ATF, was because they couldn't dictate what you did with an item once it was approved as legal to use. So I can use a brace for lashing to my arm for stability, shouldering, propping my office door open, etc...and legal means legal. If you won't listen to anyone else, I guess you'll have to figure it out for yourself. Good luck. 
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Posted: 10/21/2017 1:00:24 PM EDT
[#35]
If you are this concerned, the brace is not for you. It's not for everyone, well it is actually, but you know what I mean.
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Posted: 10/21/2017 2:04:33 PM EDT
[#36]
join date - check
topic - check why do we even bother answering these anymore.
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Posted: 10/22/2017 8:07:35 PM EDT
[#37]
I wish people (like OP I'm afraid) would stop questioning everything about Braces and Shoulders or ATF will decide, or told to decide, to look at Braces again like they are now doing with bump stocks.
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Posted: 10/23/2017 1:45:39 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wish people (like OP I'm afraid) would stop questioning everything about Braces and Shoulders or ATF will decide, or told to decide, to look at Braces again like they are now doing with bump stocks. Based on several of the recent threads and posts, many of these folks seem to lack both.
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Posted: 10/23/2017 6:27:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Jesus
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Posted: 10/23/2017 5:03:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Concerned OP starts "online jib-jab" thread to declare his dislike of "online jib-jab". Yep, you're suspect. Jeeeeeeez |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 5:34:28 PM EDT
[#41]
Questions I asked in this thread:
Has shockwave or anyone else gotten their letters yet? How long does a letter response for something like that usually take, anyways? Questions I didn't ask in this thread: Can you shoulder a pistol brace? |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 6:14:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Questions I asked in this thread: Has shockwave or anyone else gotten their letters yet? How long does a letter response for something like that usually take, anyways? Questions I didn't ask in this thread: Can you shoulder a pistol brace? The message I received this morning from the ATF said around 90 days for replies. Replies are given by mail. ATF will also send you an Email but still 90 days. I assume an Email would be faster than the included mailed letter by a couple days? Someone should expect at least 3 months for a reply no matter what. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 6:23:49 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The message I received this morning from the ATF said around 90 days for replies. Replies are given by mail. ATF will also send you an Email but still 90 days. I assume an Email would be faster than the included mailed letter by a couple days? Someone should expect at least 3 months for a reply no matter what. |
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Posted: 10/23/2017 8:02:01 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Questions I asked in this thread: Has shockwave or anyone else gotten their letters yet? How long does a letter response for something like that usually take, anyways? Questions I didn't ask in this thread: Can you shoulder a pistol brace? 
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Posted: 10/23/2017 8:08:16 PM EDT
[#45]
Possible hope for 13ers?
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Posted: 10/24/2017 7:32:57 AM EDT
[#46]
Saw this reference on KAK Shockwave site. Link
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Posted: 10/24/2017 11:01:12 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Saw this reference on KAK Shockwave site. Link |
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