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Posted: 9/1/2005 11:05:29 AM EDT
i just bought a 50 beowulf upper today. if i understand the law correctly, i can use a "staight wall" cartridge to handgun hunt legally - enter the 50... i have a DPMS stripped lower i picked up a couple weeks ago and wondered what i need to do to make this a "pistol" by legal definition. is it as simple as using a telestock tube without the shoulder piece?

i'll enjoy the bang from the 50 ringing out among the many shotguns around me during the opener... gotta keep the neighbor on his toes... lol.

any help or direction would be greatly appreciated.

thanks,


michael

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:22:09 AM EDT
o.O

Well, no. You'll need a pistol buffer tube or you'll have an un-registered SBR (IIRC)

Are there laws against using a rifle in your state? I , personally, wouldn't want to use a .50 Beo AR pistol. But that's just me.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:46:19 AM EDT
iowa...

shotguns, muzzleloaders, pistols/revolvers of "straighwall" caliber. nothing necked...

stupid, but those are the rules today... ironically they can't figure out why the number of deer related accidents jump by 300% annually...

our state senate argued for two months over what the "state fish" should be... they never decided on one either... lol... a picture of tax dollars in action...

are these pistol buffer tubes easily available and what should they cost? no need for a special buffer or spring i take it?

thanks,


michael

­
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:55:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 11:58:32 AM EDT by HRoark]
Check here. More than you'll ever need to know about AR pistols.

AR Pistol Forum

ETA-

You should be fine with whatever buffer tube you want, according to the ATF letter BigBore posted.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 11:55:34 AM EDT
Either use a pistol buffer tube or have a carbine tube ground/turned down so it can't accept a stock anymore. Technically you should use a lower that was signed out from the dealer as a pistol, but as long as it was never assembled as a rifle you'r legal.

Have fun. I kinda wanted to make a .50 pistol, but I don't have the money for it. Too much money in my .45s!

How long a barrel do you have? If its a 16" you may have to get it cut to sub-16" or it might be considered an SBR under some state laws. AA sells 11.5s as well.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:20:33 PM EDT
it's a 16" barrel. i hoped it could double as a "walking gun" in Missouri where i hunt with my uncles during their rifle season. i was going to swap a lower for a couple weeks when down south.

what's the scoop on this SBR? what does "SBR" mean and how do i find out definitively what my state regs are?

-michael

Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:36:07 PM EDT
Short Barreled Rifle SBR... duh..

i read big-bore's BATFE letter. sounds like i'm good to go...

-michael


Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:38:31 PM EDT
Short barreled rifle. Look up your states laws online with a google search and get to reading. Also check the hunting regs to see if there is a maximum barrel length for a hunting pistol.

If you encounter a legal issue, just have your barrl shortened by an inch or so.
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 12:45:02 PM EDT
thanks for the guidance!

hael
Link Posted: 9/1/2005 3:52:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/1/2005 3:54:54 PM EDT by Big-Bore]
You may be getting into more trouble than you want to deal with. Here is the rub. Most LEOS don't know the law and that goes double for Conservation Officers. So, you have a pistol toting a 16 inch barrel and you will notice the OAL on the AR is going to be over 26 inches even without the stock. By definition you almost have a rifle, 16 inch barrel and OAL of 26 inches, so the only thing that makes it NOT a rifle is the lack of a stock. Now, do you think you can convince a CO that you are really hunting with a pistol instead of a rifle? You may win in court but you are going to be out a ton of money and your pistol is going to be confiscated and the courts do not exactly take care of guns while they are in their possession, so what you get back when you win may not be worth crap. IMO either go with a standard recognized pistol barrel length of say 12 inches or less or you may have a hell of a headache coming. Even when you win you will still end up being the big loser.
Link Posted: 9/2/2005 4:01:24 AM EDT
you're probably right... in fact, i know you are.

i'm torn between putting this thing together and calling it quits now, before i start. on one hand, if i follow the law and seek to obey it, why should i have trouble. on the other, even though i hunt and own land in remote areas, i'll likely have a run-in with someone of authority eventually and that's assuming this hole build up pistol is worth using year after year.

why should a guy avoid exercising his rights and priviledges because there's potential the law enforcers don't completely know the law they're enforcing?

most of the county cops around here i know. most carry firearms and know a little about them. i can see them playing it safe and latching onto my shiny new Beowulf in an attempt to rid the streets of crime.

to hell with it. i'm doing it any way. i think i'll write my own letter to the BATFE specifically about this gun build and use. assuming i get the reply i believe to receive i'll keep a copy of the letter while using the 50. i remember to keep my ID and hunting license, i can surely remember to bring a BATFE letter. on the chance i run into authority, i can at least show them i'm cognizant and responsible.

hmmm....

knowing i was cognizant and responsible may be of little solace as i watch Joe Officer drive off with my 50...

thanks to all for the suggestions, and help. i appreciate it.

-michael

PS - i suppose, based on the reply i get from the BATFE, i could swap or trade my 16" for a shorter barrel length. we'll see.
Link Posted: 9/5/2005 4:38:30 PM EDT
That would be cool to see in action though.....
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 8:13:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/5/2005 8:14:28 AM EDT by 5isalive]
You may want to look at the Iowa DNR site again. It specifies what cal you can use now with a pistol.

Handguns: Center-fire handguns .357 caliber
or larger, shooting straight wall ammunition with
expanding-type bullet. Minimum barrel length for all
handguns is 4 inches. No shoulder stock or long
barrel modifications are allowed.
Only the following center-fire cartridges may
be used: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375
Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .401 Powermag,
10 mm Auto, .41 Remington Magnum, .41 Action
Express, .44 S&W Special, .44 Remington Magnum,
.44 Automag, .444 Marlin, .445 Super Mag,
.45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Super Mag, .45 Winchester
Magnum, .45 Silhouette, .451 Detonics, .454
Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460 Rowland, .475 Widley
Magnum, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action
Express, .50 Linebaugh and .500 S&W Mag.
Hunters age 16 and under may not use any
handguns. Hunters ages 17 through 20 must be
accompanied by a parent, guardian or spouse who
is at least 21 years old to use a handgun.
Link Posted: 10/5/2005 4:00:08 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 6:47:07 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5isalive:
You may want to look at the Iowa DNR site again. It specifies what cal you can use now with a pistol.

Handguns: Center-fire handguns .357 caliber
or larger, shooting straight wall ammunition with
expanding-type bullet. Minimum barrel length for all
handguns is 4 inches. No shoulder stock or long
barrel modifications are allowed.
Only the following center-fire cartridges may
be used: .357 Magnum, .357 Maximum, .375
Winchester, .38 Super, .40 S&W, .401 Powermag,
10 mm Auto, .41 Remington Magnum, .41 Action
Express
, .44 S&W Special, .44 Remington Magnum,
.44 Automag, .444 Marlin, .445 Super Mag,
.45 ACP, .45 Colt, .45 Super Mag, .45 Winchester
Magnum, .45 Silhouette, .451 Detonics, .454
Casull, .45-70 Govt., .460 Rowland, .475 Widley
Magnum, .475 Linebaugh, .480 Ruger, .50 Action
Express, .50 Linebaugh and .500 S&W Mag.
Hunters age 16 and under may not use any
handguns. Hunters ages 17 through 20 must be
accompanied by a parent, guardian or spouse who
is at least 21 years old to use a handgun.



But, no rifle rounds??? Did these people actually graduate at least 8th grade?
Link Posted: 10/6/2005 7:55:54 PM EDT

Originally Posted By patrickcudd:

But, no rifle rounds??? Did these people actually graduate at least 8th grade?



In Iowa you can't use a rifle so they don't want people to use them in pistols either.

It looks like this year the southern 2 layers of countys will have a special rifle season this year though.
Link Posted: 10/7/2005 3:45:46 PM EDT
Link Posted: 10/8/2005 7:28:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 5isalive:

Originally Posted By patrickcudd:

But, no rifle rounds??? Did these people actually graduate at least 8th grade?



In Iowa you can't use a rifle so they don't want people to use them in pistols either.

It looks like this year the southern 2 layers of countys will have a special rifle season this year though.





Yep, but the special rifle season only lasts a week.


Kinda lame.
Link Posted: 10/10/2005 3:25:09 PM EDT



Yep, but the special rifle season only lasts a week.


it's also antlerless only...

Link Posted: 10/15/2005 5:59:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2005 6:02:16 PM EDT by James_Brown]

Originally Posted By 5isalive:

Originally Posted By patrickcudd:

But, no rifle rounds??? Did these people actually graduate at least 8th grade?



In Iowa you can't use a rifle so they don't want people to use them in pistols either.

It looks like this year the southern 2 layers of countys will have a special rifle season this year though.



First off let me say that I know absolutely nothing about hunting laws. Am i reading correctly that you arn't allowed to hunt with a rifle in Iowa? Is this common and whats the reason behind it? Also whats the difference between a .50 S&W and a .50 Beowolf; are they not the same size?

ETA that a .50 Beowolf pistol would be boss though I'd have a hard time shooting it.
Link Posted: 10/19/2005 5:53:52 AM EDT


First off let me say that I know absolutely nothing about hunting laws. Am i reading correctly that you arn't allowed to hunt with a rifle in Iowa? Is this common and whats the reason behind it? Also whats the difference between a .50 S&W and a .50 Beowolf; are they not the same size?

ETA that a .50 Beowolf pistol would be boss though I'd have a hard time shooting it.

you are reading it correctly. they have just allowed this year a very short, late, antlerless season in the bottom two tiers of counties to lower deer population. reasoning you ask? do libs ever need a reason to stupid shit? i don't have the specifics on when and why the law was enacted. i was told by a DNR officer, who is ironically usually the poorest source of information regarding topics such as this, that it was a population per square mile issue. missouri and other bordering states have higher pop/mile concentration and yet they have rifle deer hunting seasons... odd isn't it? foolishness such as this makes me a skosh irratible. i can only hope for more republicans and conservatives in office - not that they mirror my views, but they're the closest thing i can think of to reflecting my thoughts on firearms issues.

clear as mud?

i'm doing some double checking on the list of calibers 5isalive listed above. i hope he's wrong, but i fear he isn't...

Link Posted: 10/19/2005 5:55:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/19/2005 5:59:51 AM EDT by septic-tank13]

Originally Posted By James_Brown:

Originally Posted By 5isalive:

Originally Posted By patrickcudd:

But, no rifle rounds??? Did these people actually graduate at least 8th grade?



In Iowa you can't use a rifle so they don't want people to use them in pistols either.

It looks like this year the southern 2 layers of countys will have a special rifle season this year though.



First off let me say that I know absolutely nothing about hunting laws. Am i reading correctly that you arn't allowed to hunt with a rifle in Iowa? Is this common and whats the reason behind it? Also whats the difference between a .50 S&W and a .50 Beowolf; are they not the same size?

ETA that a .50 Beowolf pistol would be boss though I'd have a hard time shooting it.



you are reading it correctly. they have just allowed this year a very short, late, antlerless season in the bottom two tiers of counties to lower deer population. reasoning for no rifles you ask? do libs ever need a reason to stupid shit? i don't have the specifics on when and why the law was enacted. i was told by a DNR officer, ironically the poorest source of information regarding topics such as this, that it was a population per square mile issue. they thought missed shots could hurt someone. missouri and other bordering states have higher pop/mile concentration and yet they have rifle deer hunting seasons and fewer hunting accidents (with the exception of that psycho in Wisconsin last year)... odd isn't it? foolishness such as this makes me a skosh irratible. i can only hope for more republicans and conservatives in office - not that they mirror all my views, but they're the closest thing i can think of to reflecting my thoughts on firearms issues.

clear as mud?

i'm doing some double checking on the list of calibers 5isalive listed above. i hope he's wrong, but i fear he isn't...

Link Posted: 10/19/2005 6:06:15 AM EDT
5isalive is right.... i'm making a request to see how i can add to the list now through the DNR site.

www.iowadnr.com/law/regs/05deerhunting.pdf

chin up men!

Link Posted: 10/27/2005 4:25:13 PM EDT
Hello All;
Regarding pistols chambered in .50 Beowulf (yes, they exist) thought you'd like to see one. I've attached a pic at the end of this note. Manufactured by Bohica, of which I am a part, this upper sports an 11" barrel and weighs in at just under 6.5 lbs. It can be used as a pistol upper (I use it that way frequently) or as an "SBR" with the appropriate permits from our friends at the BATF. It will also run like a bandit as a MG, again, with all the legalities in mind.

I make no representation of legality on a state-wide basis as a rifle so user beware. California bans .50 cal alltogether, for instance. GovernAtor, does that make any sense to you?

Felt recoil is about on a par with full-house .44 magnum shot out of my S&W Model 29, maybe slightly less. Some of this can be attributed to the Bochia-style "Tank Brake" that is equipped with rather large "Picture Window" exhaust ports. If it's good enough for an M1-A1 it's good enough for a pistol. The backblast from the brake also does a great job of ripping the lids off coffee cups as I found my last time out. This pistol chronographs a respectable 1800 fps muzzle velocity average. Not bad for an 11" barrel, which also puts it below the apparent magical 12" limit .

Bohica has been around for over 10 years as a custom and military manufacturer. We will be making our premiere at the Big Reno Show This November 18-20 at the Reno, NV Hilton. Drop by if you're in town!

Picture to follow:
http://www.bohicatool.com/images/BGP50.jpg
Link Posted: 10/27/2005 6:20:24 PM EDT

d*m bocray.
I like that!
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 8:00:05 AM EDT
bocray,

let's talk via email.

unclemike13@msn.com

please put in "50 beowulf" in the subject line.
Link Posted: 10/28/2005 12:22:28 PM EDT
by the way, nice gun!

Link Posted: 10/31/2005 11:15:25 AM EDT
I'm purty sure I got the first one of them they sold, and it sure shoots nice!

Here is some pictures of the monster:

www.geocities.com/minerlem/beowolf.html

That big old stainless barrel barely moves when you touch it off - much nicer than my S&W 500 to shoot.


Lem.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 3:03:43 PM EDT
pretty. i wondered about how much bark it would have. any other tips? anything you'd change or manipulate?

NICE.



Link Posted: 10/31/2005 4:10:05 PM EDT
Still waitin' to hear some details/prices on this thing.
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 5:10:41 PM EDT
Septic-Tank:

So far, I like everything about it. Worked right out of the box, shoots like a rifle.

The brake is loud, but makes less noise than my 500 S&W. The ol' lady sez it is louder than the S&W from the side, but I ain't standin there....


Wulf50:

I bought the upper, and some other stuff at the same time - but it was around a grand. I don't keep too close a watch on that, the "toys n' tools" budget is fairly loose around here....


Lem
Link Posted: 10/31/2005 5:56:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lem:
Septic-Tank:

So far, I like everything about it. Worked right out of the box, shoots like a rifle.

The brake is loud, but makes less noise than my 500 S&W. The ol' lady sez it is louder than the S&W from the side, but I ain't standin there....


Wulf50:

I bought the upper, and some other stuff at the same time - but it was around a grand. I don't keep too close a watch on that, the "toys n' tools" budget is fairly loose around here....
Lem



you need a "long lost son" type guy around to guide the "toys n' tools" budget? my dad's ok, but i'm always looking for something better...

lol....

mikes

Link Posted: 11/10/2005 9:36:46 AM EDT
bump.

anyone else have comments?

Link Posted: 11/10/2005 10:08:15 AM EDT
What type of scope do you have on there? I need a good scout scope.
Link Posted: 11/14/2005 7:28:19 AM EDT
Badger:

That is an old MicroDot pistol scope. I believe they were made by Hakko for T/C at one time.

It held up well on my T/C's, so I mounted it on the .50 Beo - I was not sure how bad the recoil would be. Turns out, the thing is so mild I could use a rifle scope....


I have been shooting up some AA ammo, and I am really looking foreward to loading some better ammo. I see wild SD ans ES numbers on the factory ammo. 50 fps from shot to shot on one lot of ammo was common. A second lot of FMJ's was more consistient, but 50~60 fps slower....


Lem

.
Link Posted: 11/14/2005 8:59:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2005 9:01:02 AM EDT by Zapp]

Originally Posted By bocray:
I make no representation of legality on a state-wide basis as a rifle so user beware. California bans .50 cal alltogether, for instance. GovernAtor, does that make any sense to you?



That would be incorrect. CA only bans .50 BMG, leaving any other .50 round legal. The .50 Beowulf is perfectly legal, just not in an AR pistol form, since AR pistols of any caliber are not legal in CA.

Link Posted: 11/14/2005 9:37:48 AM EDT
Also pistols of any caliber that are not on the California DOJ Approved List are not legal as well.

MadDog
(former Kalifornian since 1955)
Link Posted: 11/14/2005 11:13:34 AM EDT


taggage for updates on how it shoots and recoil


Link Posted: 12/7/2005 11:58:57 AM EDT
bump.

anyone?

Link Posted: 12/7/2005 6:04:43 PM EDT
Not much new to report - I am STILL waiting for the reloading dies, and the new brass I ordered - months ago.

Once I get the dies, I can probably wring some better performance out of the short barrel.

I have not had any trouble with the factory ammo, save for ONE round that was so far out of spec that it would not chamber more than 75% - and required a LOT of force to remove.


Lem

.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 11:13:38 AM EDT
lem,

how many rounds have you gone through? recoil is comparible to what?

thanks.


Link Posted: 12/8/2005 11:05:38 PM EDT
Septic-Tank:

I have about 200 rounds through it right now. With the exception of the one bad round, I have had no FTF or FTE problems. LSHO every magazine too.

My pistol lower has a standard car buffer and spring - I doubt it would be that reliable with the silly little half inch spring in it....

The recoil is not sharp - more like a 45 colt. Less violent than my 6 inch M29 with 240 gr Samson ammo. I don't think I would shoot it with the tail of the buffer tube on my nose, but it is really pretty tame.

Lem
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 3:04:26 PM EDT
Lem


WOW that is something. Who made the muzzle brakeand the barrel for you?
Link Posted: 12/13/2005 6:34:51 AM EDT
edpmedic:

That is a Bohica Tool upper.

Bohica tool is basically the one guy from M2 that actually made the stuff work, and the original owner of Bohica - the outfit that made the billet lowers before the '94 ban.

They are only making uppers now - as far as I know. I saw them at the big reno show a few weeks back.

Check out their Website.


Lem

.
Link Posted: 12/14/2005 5:19:19 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lem:


So far, I like everything about it. Worked right out of the box, shoots like a rifle.



So ..you do a cheek weld on the buffer tube ...like it was a stock....

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