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I hear ya BOTH and that's what everyone's saying, including accuracy, but then the forums say the Ham'r isn't "that much better" and Wilson cherry picked numbers to make it 'appear' better. I know ya can't believe everything you read. I suppose reloading data is all you can rely on and a chrono tells the truth.

I'm actually looking for a relatively short barrel with a hard hitting round within 200-300 or so yards with max AR-15 223-5.56 compatibility. Just trying to justify which way to go. I'm torn between 300 Blackout  and 300 Ham'r.

I'm thinking 'I could go 300 Blackout and not miss out on the possibility of subsonics' OR I could go with a bit more geeked out Ham'r round and not miss subsonics due to MANY claimed sub MOA accuracy.

My logical mind is telling me to stick with 300 Blackout and ... build a Ham'r upper later

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So much stuff to wade through in this thread. I have owned and hunted with a .300 BLK and I know several people who have owned and hunted with a .300 BLK. Let me assure you that the Ham'r is by far a much more sufficient cartridge for that task. I sold my .300 BLK barrel and no-one I know hunts with one anymore. It just didn't perform as well as we all hoped.

My 11.3" .300 Ham'r runs 125 TNT'S right around 2300 FPS; which is on par with a 16" 7.62x39 running similar weight bullets. Out of a 16" .300 Ham'r you can match 150 grain .30-30 speeds (same length barrel) while achieving much better accuracy and consistency.

Out of the same length barrels the .300 Ham'r will run the same weight of bullet faster than the .300 BLK, period. By how much varies by the bullet and the powder. The 150's will lose the least velocity when you go with the shorter barrels. Out of an 8" .300 Ham'r you can expect velocities to be right around the same as 16" .300 BLK velocities with the same bullets.

None of this should stop you from buying a .300 BLK barrel especially if you want to run bullets over 160 grain. Or as stated before get both! Subs aren't the only thing the BLK can do but it's the only thing it can do that the Ham'r cannot do.

There are cartridges that outperform the .300 Ham'r for sure! I know guys running 6.5 Grendel's with great success. But none of them can do it without running a non-standard bolt or with widely available .223/5.56 brass. Getting into the Ham'r is as easy as getting into the BLK. For my money I can get the most performance with the least non standard parts out of the AR15 from the .300 Ham'r.

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So much stuff to wade through in this thread. I have owned and hunted with a .300 BLK and I know several people who have owned and hunted with a .300 BLK. Let me assure you that the Ham'r is by far a much more sufficient cartridge for that task. I sold my .300 BLK barrel and no-one I know hunts with one anymore. It just didn't perform as well as we all hoped.

My 11.3" .300 Ham'r runs 125 TNT'S right around 2300 FPS; which is on par with a 16" 7.62x39 running similar weight bullets. Out of a 16" .300 Ham'r you can match 150 grain .30-30 speeds (same length barrel) while achieving much better accuracy and consistency.

Out of the same length barrels the .300 Ham'r will run the same weight of bullet faster than the .300 BLK, period. By how much varies by the bullet and the powder. The 150's will lose the least velocity when you go with the shorter barrels. Out of an 8" .300 Ham'r you can expect velocities to be right around the same as 16" .300 BLK velocities with the same bullets.

None of this should stop you from buying a .300 BLK barrel especially if you want to run bullets over 160 grain. Or as stated before get both! Subs aren't the only thing the BLK can do but it's the only thing it can do that the Ham'r cannot do.

There are cartridges that outperform the .300 Ham'r for sure! I know guys running 6.5 Grendel's with great success. But none of them can do it without running a non-standard bolt or with widely available .223/5.56 brass. Getting into the Ham'r is as easy as getting into the BLK. For my money I can get the most performance with the least non standard parts out of the AR15 from the .300 Ham'r.

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Recoil737, obviously you're having trouble with your reading skills.........

If you go back to my original post on this thread midway on pg 1 and read the chrono results shot on the same day, same weather conditions and both from WC mfg barrels. True the HAM'R has less of an advantage with the lighter bullets, but a 8" HAM'R will still be VERY close to a 16" BLK velocity. It's too damn cold out for me to do any chrono work now and I only have a few rounds of one 110gr BLK load anyway.

135gr
8" Barrel HAM'R 2147fps
16" Barrel BLK 2085fps
HAM'R advantage 62fps

150gr
8" Barrel HAM'R 2003fps
16" Barrel BLK 1910fps
HAM'R advantage 93fps

As to dies both Lee and RCBS make dies and we have 300 sets of RCBS inbound now. Dave at CH4D contacted me several months ago for the cartridge spec, so I'm assuming he's either making dies or planning to.

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Recoil737, obviously you're having trouble with your reading skills.........

If you go back to my original post on this thread midway on pg 1 and read the chrono results shot on the same day, same weather conditions and both from WC mfg barrels. True the HAM'R has less of an advantage with the lighter bullets, but a 8" HAM'R will still be VERY close to a 16" BLK velocity. It's too damn cold out for me to do any chrono work now and I only have a few rounds of one 110gr BLK load anyway.

135gr
8" Barrel HAM'R 2147fps
16" Barrel BLK 2085fps
HAM'R advantage 62fps

150gr
8" Barrel HAM'R 2003fps
16" Barrel BLK 1910fps
HAM'R advantage 93fps

As to dies both Lee and RCBS make dies and we have 300 sets of RCBS inbound now. Dave at CH4D contacted me several months ago for the cartridge spec, so I'm assuming he's either making dies or planning to.

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Where can you show me that out of an 8 inch 300 Ham'r barrel that you are getting the same speeds out of a 16 inch 300BLK barrel with the same bullets? Especially when it comes to the 110gr, 120gr and 125gr bullets. The difference is usually under 100fps with both having an 8 inch barrel and I know that the 300BLK picks up a lot more speed than 100fps adding another 8 inches too it.

Also the 300BLK can do a lot more than just subs over the 300 Ham'r. It is a better SBR cartridge, when ammo is available it can be pickup up at any place that sells ammo, the 300BLK can be reloaded with more variety of bullets, the 300BLK has more variety of barrels and are optimized to handle the more variety of bullets available to it. The 300BLK can be reloaded with every die manufacture while the 300 Hamm'r you are stuck with LEE.

Once again the 300BLK can take any creature that the 300 Hamm'r can. Other than a speed bump what is the advantage to a cartridge that can't do all that? Especially when there are better options for putting more power in an AR platform.

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Recoil737, obviously you're having trouble with your reading skills.........

If you go back to my original post on this thread midway on pg 1 and read the chrono results shot on the same day, same weather conditions and both from WC mfg barrels. True the HAM'R has less of an advantage with the lighter bullets, but a 8" HAM'R will still be VERY close to a 16" BLK velocity. It's too damn cold out for me to do any chrono work now and I only have a few rounds of one 110gr BLK load anyway.

135gr
8" Barrel HAM'R 2147fps
16" Barrel BLK 2085fps
HAM'R advantage 62fps

150gr
8" Barrel HAM'R 2003fps
16" Barrel BLK 1910fps
HAM'R advantage 93fps

As to dies both Lee and RCBS make dies and we have 300 sets of RCBS inbound now. Dave at CH4D contacted me several months ago for the cartridge spec, so I'm assuming he's either making dies or planning to.

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Exactly. Tested all kinds of loads from my HAM'R and Black out. There is no comparison. HAM'R is more effective, better at everything.

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One of the 6.8SPC/30's is what you are looking for.  ;)

Check for 30HRT, TAC30, and 6.8-.30 options and you will find they run harder than the 300H'amr and 300BO with supersonic loads.  Magazines and bolts are pretty easy to source as well for 6.8SPC cases.  

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Actually, I find the whole marketing thing humorous.
The 300 Whisper sat rather flat until it was rebranded the "Blackout".  I mean who wouldn't want a gun called "Blackout"?
It's power fell very short for northern big game, but the word from marketing was "It's right there with the 30/30 in power, so it's plenty for big game".  Somehow  1,303 is just as powerful as 2,046 ft.-lbs in the 30/30 if it's in a black gun.
It also fell flat in law enforcement due mostly to it's lack of power; it won't penetrate a ballistic vest like the 5.56 will.
Now we have a shortened 30 Apache under a new marketing name of Hammer (makes you think of Thor doesn't it?).  Part of it's marketing sales line is that it's a lot more powerful than that wimpy Blackout. Never mind that gun marketing has been saying it's all the power you need for the past decade+ for anything with four legs or deep under cover, but we have to keep it new and exciting to keep selling!

Don't get me wrong, I like many my age used the 30/30 and consider it the first level of "enough gun" for deer, bear, and even elk when the shots are taken at proper ranges and not hundreds of yards, I just get a kick out of how marketing bends things around to make it fit their, must have sales.  If power and a .308 bullet were really what this is all about, then the 30 Remington AR would be the first and almost last word in AR15 big game rounds.  Too bad Remington just didn't have the right marketing to keep it going.

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Actually, I find the whole marketing thing humorous.
 Somehow  1,303 is just as powerful as 2,046 ft.-lbs in the 30/30 if it's in a black gun.

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Huh? I'm getting 2400 fps out of my 10 inch 300 BO with 110 gr bullets.

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I recently updated my .30 HRT barrel to a 16" TAC 30 from the company not to be mentioned. I'm getting good velocity and accuracy with a variety of 125gr bullets including 125 SST's, 125 TGK's, and 125 BT's.

2550 FPS is easily reached with the 125's... my finally decided on load (27.0grs AA1680) is pushing the TGK at 2525 FPS on average. I could probably get a few more FPS but I'm pretty much near max with the one powder.

Accuracy at 50-75 yards has been well under MOA with a final 100 yard zero being right at MOA.

Some rounds...

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/Od6ZNo.jpg

General performance at 75 yards...

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/rI3WW4.jpg

General performance at 50 yards but the powder (AA2200) doesn't give peak speed...

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/922/we2sUH.jpg

Compact and not too heavy...

https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/640x480q90/923/SlSG3g.jpg

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edited for lack of thorough reading and comprehension.  However, I'm sorely tempted to give the Ham'r a go, especially fond of the retained magazine capacity even though I typically fire one shot and piggies all run away without me sending more projectiles their way.

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Are you able to use 30 Harrett reloading data as printed, or is the case capacity a bit different?
Thanks,
Gos

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He's talking energy, you are talking velocity.  Big difference.

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Even in what you pulled above, the 300 HAM'R is faster.  I don't know why others compare them, but I can say why I personally compared them.  They only require a barrel change if you already have an AR15.  No difference in magazine capacity either.  It's SAAMI approved, so hopefully it will become more wide spread.  If you decide you want something 300 BLK or 556, and don't like the 300 HAM'R, just change out the barrel again.  If you're only interested in supersonics, they hold more powder, and allow you more choices in bullets and bullet weight.  I used 110 Gr for 300 BLK because it falls off so much if you increase the weight.  You don't have that same problem with the 300 HAM'R.  If you want to shoot subsonics and supersonic, you should get 300 BLK.  I've experimented with short barrels for the 300 BLK and I don't like giving up over 100 fps per inch of barrel, so I still prefer at least 8 inches for supersonic rounds.  If you don't want to suppress it, I don't know why you would go shorter than the 11.3" barrels that Wilson makes for either.  I like the 130 Gr HHC bullet.  I can use it in my 8" 300 HAM'R with better performance than 110 Gr in 300 BLK and also use it in my 16" to hunt with.  Since Wilson isn't offering the 8" right now, that only leaves you with 300 BLK if you want to go shorter than 11.3".  Relative to ammunition for sale, I've observed over the past 9 months, that 300 HAM'R has been more available and cheaper than 300 BLK.  If you reload, it doesn't matter.  Why bash it or get in a pissing contest about how much the muzzle velocity increases over 300 BLK.  There's an increase, period.  How much depends on the bullet and barrel.

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BWilson just posted on the "300 HAM'R information sharing thread" that he is making more of the 8" 300 HAM'R barrels.  If you only shoot supersonic rounds, even in barrels as short as 8", the 300 HAM'R is the best option.

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If I want to go shorter than 11.3 for and HD/PDW type weapon that will be unsuppressed, what is your suggestion?