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Posted: 4/16/2018 11:27:09 PM EDT
[#1]
Didn't read all of the replies so sorry if I'm beating a dead horse, but saw the title and thought I'd stop in with my personal experience on BCA barrels as I went through a similar struggle to yours. I finally rechecked my build and shot other rifles I'd built side by side with my BCA built to confirm I didn't suck. I bought one of their 6.5G barrels last year and couldn't get better than three to four MOA groups at 50 and 100 yards. It was all over the place. After confirming my work and also my shooting with another rifle, I removed the BCA barrel and swore to never make that mistake again. Cheap is cheap.
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Posted: 4/17/2018 4:25:35 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If a scope shifts in the mount, it generally wobbles side to side in my experience. It also generally wanders way off target. The groups don't look like a wandering zero issue to me. How did you install the barrel? perhaps retry the barrel torque and installation process before scrapping the barrel? Check the upper receiver and bolt face/lugs for irregularities? |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 9:49:17 AM EDT
[#3]
Have you tried any other ammo yet?
I've got a FN SPR A1 that shoots like a laser. I have hit a quarter 5 out of 5 times at 200 meters with handloads, and I can do it often enough that my club doesn't let me use that rifle in our informal competitions anymore.  That same rifle makes basketball size patterns at 100 yds with 165gr SSTs--I either got a bad batch of bullets, or my gun really doesn't like SSTs. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 4:29:05 PM EDT
[#4]
OP, you mention jamming problems which sounds to me like the gas tube may not be straight enough to hit the BCG squarely. I notice it went away, which suggests that is wearing in, but this may be related to the large groups. In my own experience groups of that size suggest something major is loose, like a scope mount or the scope itself. Try another scope to be sure. Also, the barrel nut or the gas block may be loose as others have pointed out. I doubt it is ammo or the barrel, but I could be wrong, I usually am.
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Posted: 4/22/2018 4:42:18 PM EDT
[#5]
I have sold a bunch of the BCA 6.5 Grendel barrels and complete uppers in my store. I have gotten a handful,of reports of them shooting bad like yours. I bought a borescope so I could see and understand what is going on. then I bought a Manson crown kit and started cleaning the crowns up and getting good feedback.
Don't bother sending the barrel back to BCA. They haven't had any Grendel barrels in months. |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 4:45:59 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
60 total. Ammo is hard to find here. I have to order it. And its spensive! |
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Posted: 4/22/2018 9:27:06 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think you have asked me where I am at but I am not sure what part of the state you are in. I have a borescope and 6.5 crown tool if you are in NW LA. |
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Posted: 4/23/2018 4:19:32 PM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 4/23/2018 5:25:21 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
loose barrel nut? upper loose in lower? just a suggestion |
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Posted: 4/28/2018 6:38:30 PM EDT
[#10]
Went today and fired 11 rounds from a led sled at 100 yards. First three shots were vertically in line but 3-4 inches apart from top to bottom. I put in the first 4 inches of windage. I fired one round. Impact was where
it should have been. I then fired four more rounds for grouping. 3 rounds hit the very bottom of the paper all the way across horizontally and then the last shot hit center of target. I put one more paper up with no adjustments and it went back to hitting the bottom of the paper with 2 rounds. I give up for now. Im pulling the optic and putting it on my A4 so I can make sure its not the scope. Once I confirm that I will be ordering a new barrel from somewhere else.  Attached File |
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Posted: 4/28/2018 7:50:14 PM EDT
[#11]
That is unacceptable. I would suspect the glass. The vertical dispersion sure does seem that way.
My results are typical for the price point and yours should do as good for sure. In fact you horizontal spread is 1-1.5 MOA. I am willing to call it over the Internet, your glass is jacked. |
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Posted: 4/28/2018 7:54:35 PM EDT
[#12]
If the optic checks out OK, call them, show them the results. They should replace it.
I had a 24" heavy fluted SS in 6.5G that shot about 3-4 MOA. They issued me a return label and swapped it out for a 20" 5-R Nitride at no additional costs to me |
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Posted: 4/28/2018 9:10:45 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That is unacceptable. I would suspect the glass. The vertical dispersion sure does seem that way. My results are typical for the price point and yours should do as good for sure. In fact you horizontal spread is 1-1.5 MOA. I am willing to call it over the Internet, your glass is jacked. |
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Posted: 4/28/2018 11:30:19 PM EDT
[#14]
I've got a Grendel upper and a 7.62*39, both shoot great! I built an upper with a 20" fluted 223 wylde chamber, 1:8. Horrible groups from some unknown mixed 55 grain ammo. Had put a scope on that was known to hold tight groups. Was gonna pull it off and put irons on just to verify, but before doing so, I shot several groups of 3 different known ammo.
American eagle 62 fmj shot ~2.5", fiocci 223 55 sp shot 1.75". Some hand loads that shot well out of most of my others using hornady 55 soft point and varget powder grouped inside a nickel. I rotated all ammo shooting groups of 5, starting with the 62, my 55 then fiocci. It repeated every time. I'm perfectly happy with my BCA barrels. |
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Posted: 5/5/2018 4:55:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Just a small update. pulled the Leupold and will shoot it on my A4 Tuesday weather permitting. Once that is done the barrel will come off the upper when my gunsmith can get to it. Any suggestions on a different barrel. I dont need half MOA just better than 4 inch plus at 100 yards
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Posted: 5/14/2018 9:21:25 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thank you. I assume since the brass is soft, there is no worry of the slot hurting the crown. Thanks for the info. Did this on one of my .223 barrels that had no crown. Did help improve groups. Not quite a 11 degree crown cut but hey it worked. |
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Posted: 5/14/2018 2:29:41 PM EDT
[#17]
People commenting on the crown needing to be touched up etc....
I'm certainly not an expert but I'd read a study done on ballistics on barrel length on an AR(I think it was) ... The author literally took a portable saw to the range and cut the barrel down inch by inch testing FPS/ballistics or whatever etc... He commented and noted how the crown apparently didn't affect accuracy...the proof was in the pictures of the targets I believe (can't remember for certainty) . Basically I'm saying the crown has less to do with accuracy than some may preach it does. That's what the author concluded and stated . buTtttt...all that being said...u get what u pay for. Buy once cry once.... The price on those barrels is so cheap I can't imagine them being that great...not gonna lie I've been tempted myself. To me a BCA barrel is like shopping for a new car family car....then driving off the lot with some tiny diminutive 4 door clown car. Hey it works...it's got 4 doors....but man spend a little more and rest easier at night. At least I would . |
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Posted: 5/14/2018 4:03:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What sucks is the rifle is not set up for irons and i dont have another optic except a 40 year old 4x Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That is unacceptable. I would suspect the glass. The vertical dispersion sure does seem that way. My results are typical for the price point and yours should do as good for sure. In fact you horizontal spread is 1-1.5 MOA. I am willing to call it over the Internet, your glass is jacked. The first thing I'd do if I see results similar to what OP is showing would be swap out my optics/mount, then shoot again. |
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Posted: 5/14/2018 4:13:44 PM EDT
[#19]
In for the tuesday results.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 12:09:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Another gunsmith I am friends with (both involved are very reputable) offered to take it to the range and try it with an IOR scope with the hand guard removed. We checked gas tube again. The BcG does impart some movement on the tube. He reinstalled the barrel and we removed the flash hider. So scope, handguard and flashhider removed from equation.
Pretty much same results noted Good news is I have a return label for Bear Creek and my scope and mount are good  Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:15:28 AM EDT
[#21]
Looks like you did everything to diagnose this one. I've shot better groups at 100 yards with a pistol.
Now what will you get to replace it? Greg |
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Posted: 5/15/2018 10:29:41 AM EDT
[#22]
Good job on diagnosing the issue. Let us know how it goes with BCA and if they make it right.
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Posted: 5/15/2018 11:07:25 AM EDT
[#23]
Sounds like BCA will take care of the issue for you. Nothing wrong with buying a higher end, more expensive barrel if you go that route, but I'd be surprised if the replacement barrel doesn't shoot just fine...or are they refunding your purchase?
I don't think most of us would anticipate a $50 barrel should perform as well as one of the well known high end barrels, but I contend that barrel manufacturing for something like an AR isn't the black magic mystery it used to be. Computer design and close tolerance machinery has allowed much better quality than many of us are willing to admit. Now, I'm not arguing that consistency in quality is a guarantee when we're talking $50 barrels vs $300 barrels, but I don't think it's the huge difference it used to be. I have a bunch of AR's, a few with some highly respected manufacturer's barrels and a few lower end to middle-of-the-road level barrels. I don't see night-and-day differences between the ones I have except for one quality 24" 5.56 barrel for long range use that definitely shoots to its quality level. But then I also have a $60 BCA 16" 300BO barrel that shoots 110g Hornady V-Max bullets lights out. I'd expect the occasional "snafu" with a $50-$60 barrel, but most of the providers of such barrels will also honor returns in cases where issues arise. Choices are good. Not everyone is able or willing to buy the absolute best barrels in all instances. Make your choices based on what you want and what you're willing to spend. Just be aware that you might find more lemons in a $50-$60 basket than one costing a lot more. |
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Posted: 5/16/2018 9:40:07 AM EDT
[#24]
Thank you for the update.
Please , Let us know if you get a replacement barrel or another brand. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 5:02:22 PM EDT
[#25]
 Attached File Attached FileGroups from my 16in BCA Grendel, M4 profile. I shot these today. Note, 50yds so look at the MOA for a true result. One of us has an anomaly. |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 7:34:43 PM EDT
[#26]
Barrel shipped backed two days ago to BCA via UPS. To the poster above is that a Stainless barrel
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Posted: 5/20/2018 8:22:02 PM EDT
[#27]
Yes, 416SS
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Posted: 5/20/2018 9:33:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, 416SS |
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Posted: 5/20/2018 10:00:34 PM EDT
[#29]
It was a complete upper purchased directly from BCA by my wife for a Christmas gift. I don't think it was a "special" as they had a bunch of uppers on the site at the time.
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Posted: 5/26/2018 4:28:18 PM EDT
[#30]
Small Update. It appeared there was some mailbox snafu with gmail and I was not getting emails as "new" in my box from bear creek but they were trying to get through to me. Three replies 1 noting they had not gotten my barrel back yet, two that they were closing my return order until I sent the barrel but could do so at my leisure and they would reopen and three a return shipping with tracking. I have no idea if its a new barrel, my "fixed barrel" or another barrel but I will have it before they get back to work tuesday
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Posted: 5/29/2018 10:46:20 PM EDT
[#31]
Got the replacement barrel today. Overall finish was ok with light scratches in the stainless. First thread against the shoulder of the barrel was rough. Bore is clean and upper is reassembled. Zero movement or binding on gas tube cycling action. Nut is tightened hand tight per spec of ALG. Once I get some more 123 SST. I will go check the zero
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Posted: 5/30/2018 7:56:44 PM EDT
[#32]
This is the new barrel. Im at. a loss for words. I fired the rifle in a led sled off the tailgate of my truck. No wind today at 93 defrees. Far right shots were first. I dialed in the adjustment and it grouped to the right. I dialed in my down and more right and shot the 3 (3) shot groups center of target at 25 yards. Backed out to 100 by handing the rifle to my buddy to hold carefully. He is a Marine and did not use the rifle as a golf club while holding it Moved back to 100 yards and set up a new target. Three of 5 shots hit the far right side of the paper. Other two missed completely.Again this rifle was shot with a high quality IOR Valdada scope and the same problem exhibited. But this is a second barrel. I should not be having this problem. I am wondering how to proceed. Do I order a higher quality barrel and bolt and keep the Gas tube, Gas block and Upper along with the alg hand guard and nut or do I scrap the 6.5 project all together before this becomes a money pit. I currenty do not have a hunting rifle that I can mount an optic on. Here is the target at 25
 Attached File |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 8:07:14 PM EDT
[#33]
May not be the barrel. Odd that you got crap results, twice.
How about another load? Do you handload? All I feed my rifles are my own handloads. I can share my recipes, all are under max but in some cases you won't find them in a book. I have had great luck with the loads post above. What nut is tightened "hand tight"? I can't think of a thing on an AR that would be "hand tight" ETA This is the typical ALG install, you torque the crap out of it on the final set, using a 12 inch pipe as extension. ALG barrel nut install. It is convoluted. |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 10:51:38 PM EDT
[#34]
We did not use a pipe. but it is tight I might try with the pipe . I also will call ALG tomorrow and see if this problem will be exhibited by not using the pipe
When the rifle was shot with the IOR it was tigtened by a different gunsmith who also tightened it down. I doubt two put it in wrong on seperate occasions but it is worth a shot to look at |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 10:57:01 PM EDT
[#35]
Did you use the same upper for the second gunsmith?
Just wondering if the area where the barrel is inserted may be excessive in tolerance. Did you also check to see if the barrel nut is bottoming out on the receiver face before it's contacting the barrel extension? Seems like I recall Geissele and ALG including shims for that interface to ensure that the barrel nut was applying proper force to the extension. |
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Posted: 5/30/2018 11:27:36 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We did not use a pipe. but it is tight I might try with the pipe . I also will call ALG tomorrow and see if this problem will be exhibited by not using the pipe When the rifle was shot with the IOR it was tigtened by a different gunsmith who also tightened it down. I doubt two put it in wrong on seperate occasions but it is worth a shot to look at Even a crap barrel shouldn't shoot that bad. I think you need to revisit that barrel nut torque again. Carefully read through the instructions he posted, also watch Bill do an install  ALG DEFENSE - ERGONOMIC MODULAR RAILS - PRODUCT INSTALLATION VIDEO |
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Posted: 5/31/2018 12:23:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What ErikS said above. Soon as I saw the 'hand tight' comment, it threw up a red flag Even a crap barrel shouldn't shoot that bad. I think you need to revisit that barrel nut torque again. Carefully read through the instructions he posted, also watch Bill do an install  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmnN_1UBnAA |
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Posted: 5/31/2018 7:51:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will try this but I doubt it. We did pretty much the same both time and measured shims. Its not loose as far as we can tell but this would explain the problem. I wonder if its not settled |
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Posted: 5/31/2018 7:59:10 AM EDT
[#39]
Are you still using the 123 gr. SST rounds? Have you tried other loads?
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Posted: 5/31/2018 11:14:08 AM EDT
[#40]
123SST 120 Fusion and Handloads fired. Fusion grouped the best but I never see it for sale. The second time the first barrel was installed and shot without the handguard and with the IOR installed he used a pipe. Im wondering if its the actual upper not letting the barrel seat but I have seen three times installed and the extension is fully seated and the collar is pretty tight on there. Maybe it needs to pack in farther
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Posted: 5/31/2018 11:34:35 AM EDT
[#41]
Yes, big red flags regarding torque. Get it right before you start looking at other things.
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Posted: 5/31/2018 12:54:51 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
123SST 120 Fusion and Handloads fired. Fusion grouped the best but I never see it for sale. The second time the first barrel was installed and shot without the handguard and with the IOR installed he used a pipe. Im wondering if its the actual upper not letting the barrel seat but I have seen three times installed and the extension is fully seated and the collar is pretty tight on there. Maybe it needs to pack in farther It sounds time consuming, but so would going after different barrels when you haven't eliminated a problem with the upper. BCA obviously may not be Criterion or Shilen, but I haven't found them to be so consistently as poor as this example. It will be interesting to see what shakes out here. |
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Posted: 5/31/2018 4:15:41 PM EDT
[#43]
Im going to order a set of 15 dollar shims from ALG since it is the cheapest option.I do have other uppers but im not about to start pulling complete uppers that have no issues to salvage this one. One more attempt at seating the barrel If this doesnt work im scrapping the 6.5 barrel and bolt and making this a 5.56 upper before it gets out of hand . As always thank you for the help and it will be a bit but I will update again
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Posted: 5/31/2018 4:54:20 PM EDT
[#44]
If you were close, I'd have a BBQ, have you come over, and would throw it on another upper for testing.
I just can't see 2 barrels in a row be that bad, but then again sometimes 'shit' happens |
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Posted: 5/31/2018 5:02:56 PM EDT
[#45]
Other problem is I cant easily isolate I could order a BA barrel and if its the handguard im worse off. If I fire the Leupold the only other caliber AR i have are 5.56 so there is minimal recoil . Like I said Im going to re check the shims on the handguard and set them and after that im going another direction.
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Posted: 5/31/2018 8:48:42 PM EDT
[#46]
so what I'm seeing is the barrel nut was very clearly not installed correctly.....that will mess you up big time.....the install instructions are there for a reason.....
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Posted: 5/31/2018 9:43:45 PM EDT
[#47]
Tight is not tight with the ALG . I found several threads from the last two years with the same problem. Going to try some of the suggestions in those threads too.
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Posted: 5/31/2018 10:11:53 PM EDT
[#48]
I've got 4 rifles with ALG rails and have built a few uppers for buddies with them as well.......I've not experienced an issue yet....you have to follow the instructions to the absolute letter.
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Posted: 5/31/2018 10:59:03 PM EDT
[#49]
It is tight but we did not pack the spacers three times . The video was much more helpful than the directions that came with the rail
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Posted: 6/1/2018 5:57:44 AM EDT
[#50]
Do you have a mil spec barrel nut laying around?
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