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Posted: 10/16/2017 8:31:50 PM EDT
Federal will be offering 4 loads for it
 Introducing 224 Valkyrie (old version) LaRue has plans for uppers, and Q had plans for a mini fix chambered in it so far. Looks like a neat round. 
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Posted: 10/16/2017 8:36:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Does this use a standard AR lower/mag or is this like Six8?
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Posted: 10/16/2017 8:39:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does this use a standard AR lower/mag or is this like Six8? |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 9:19:23 PM EDT
[#3]
Looks pretty interesting to me. I'm reload though too.
I believe I read an article that said it uses 6.8 spc brass. Don't quote me on that. I'm guessing a barrel burner. |
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Posted: 10/16/2017 9:22:33 PM EDT
[#4]
6.8 mag and bolt?? I have one of each sitting on the shelf
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Posted: 10/16/2017 10:08:58 PM EDT
[#5]
I have had a unused 6.8 LMT enhanced bolt for the better part of a decade. This makes me glad that I didn't sell it at a loss.
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Posted: 10/16/2017 10:44:53 PM EDT
[#6]
Could be a handy conversion idea for one of my BMS bolt action rifles: had been considering getting an AR15 bolt/barrel in 6.8SPC, to run alongside my Rem 700 LTR 6.8; having a .224 round using the same 6.8 bolt could make for an interesting set-up.
Will look into this for more ballistic data, etc. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 9:27:37 AM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
LaRue has plans for uppers, and Q had plans for a mini fix chambered in it so far. Looks like a neat round. 
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Posted: 10/17/2017 11:03:17 AM EDT
[#8]
I'll be keeping an eye on the development of this round.
I'm curious about what kind of barrel life folks will be getting. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 6:28:11 PM EDT
[#9]
Looks similar to that company that cannot be named Yote Smoker (5.56x42). 6.8 cat.
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Posted: 10/17/2017 8:38:49 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Can't believe I missed that. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 8:56:34 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
6.8 mag and bolt?? I have one of each sitting on the shelf Never mind then. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 9:18:14 PM EDT
[#12]
When I heard mark say wow it hits harder than the Grendel doesn't it , I thought to myself wow that 6.5 round didn't last long.
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Posted: 10/17/2017 10:26:42 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
When I heard mark say wow it hits harder than the Grendel doesn't it , I thought to myself wow that 6.5 round didn't last long. |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 10:40:40 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't believe I missed that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LaRue has plans for uppers, and Q had plans for a mini fix chambered in it so far. Looks like a neat round. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 12:11:47 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at the energy graph I posted, Grendel isn't going anywhere. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
When I heard mark say wow it hits harder than the Grendel doesn't it , I thought to myself wow that 6.5 round didn't last long. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 12:40:51 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you see this? |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 1:18:36 AM EDT
[#17]
Those velocities are reported to be out of a 24" barrel according to the main thread on it. With the expansion ratio, I suspect it will suffer pretty heavily from a 16". It's one thing to bang steel, varmit hunt or put a hole in a bad guy, but it's use for medium game will still have range limitations likely not too dissimilar to 556. Unless a 90 gr expanding bullet with high BC comes out, which it might.
This is a wait and see cartridge to me... as a wildcatter/hunter, I look at cartridges through that lense. If I wanted to build a new rig for steel banging, it looks pretty cool. Real world velos from "normal" barrel lengths will be a significant factor for the round's success. I do a see potential to wildcat this round for better medium game performance, but there are already rounds that likely overlap in that context. We shall see. The more options the better though. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:08:15 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Look at the energy graph I posted, Grendel isn't going anywhere. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:10:54 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those velocities are reported to be out of a 24" barrel according to the main thread on it. With the expansion ratio, I suspect it will suffer pretty heavily from a 16". It's one thing to bang steel, varmit hunt or put a hole in a bad guy, but it's use for medium game will still have range limitations likely not too dissimilar to 556. Unless a 90 gr expanding bullet with high BC comes out, which it might. This is a wait and see cartridge to me... as a wildcatter/hunter, I look at cartridges through that lense. If I wanted to build a new rig for steel banging, it looks pretty cool. Real world velos from "normal" barrel lengths will be a significant factor for the round's success. I do a see potential to wildcat this round for better medium game performance, but there are already rounds that likely overlap in that context. We shall see. The more options the better though. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:34:42 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you see this? Mentioned it to a buddy of mine at Q and got a "Hell Yeah" back. Im not a bolt gun person, but I've really wanted a 556 bolt gun that takes AR mags, but the MVP wasn't doing it for me. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 9:41:19 AM EDT
[#21]
I purchased a 22 nosler barrel. The 224 looks interesting. The graph above puts down the nosler from what I've read. Looks like they took their data from a 18in barrel instead of a 24in. I've not yet assembled or shot my nosler but eager to get it out.
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Posted: 10/18/2017 10:04:23 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those velocities are reported to be out of a 24" barrel according to the main thread on it. With the expansion ratio, I suspect it will suffer pretty heavily from a 16". It's one thing to bang steel, varmit hunt or put a hole in a bad guy, but it's use for medium game will still have range limitations likely not too dissimilar to 556. Unless a 90 gr expanding bullet with high BC comes out, which it might. This is a wait and see cartridge to me... as a wildcatter/hunter, I look at cartridges through that lense. If I wanted to build a new rig for steel banging, it looks pretty cool. Real world velos from "normal" barrel lengths will be a significant factor for the round's success. I do a see potential to wildcat this round for better medium game performance, but there are already rounds that likely overlap in that context. We shall see. The more options the better though. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 10:26:15 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The graph above says 20" barrel. Dont know if that accurate, but other forums are saying 20". In the video, federal refers to making a 90gr fusion round. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 10:28:47 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those velocities are reported to be out of a 24" barrel according to the main thread on it. With the expansion ratio, I suspect it will suffer pretty heavily from a 16". It's one thing to bang steel, varmit hunt or put a hole in a bad guy, but it's use for medium game will still have range limitations likely not too dissimilar to 556. Unless a 90 gr expanding bullet with high BC comes out, which it might. This is a wait and see cartridge to me... as a wildcatter/hunter, I look at cartridges through that lense. If I wanted to build a new rig for steel banging, it looks pretty cool. Real world velos from "normal" barrel lengths will be a significant factor for the round's success. I do a see potential to wildcat this round for better medium game performance, but there are already rounds that likely overlap in that context. We shall see. The more options the better though. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 11:48:59 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can't believe I missed that. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 12:21:21 PM EDT
[#26]
That 100gr Fusion has a SD of .286 which is he equivalent to a 190gr .308 cal. That's pretty good. Hopefully the velocity-expansion threshold is low. It would be great to see other bullet manufacturers producing heavy for weight .224 hunting bullets. Like a 90gr ABLR would be sweet.
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Posted: 10/18/2017 12:37:14 PM EDT
[#27]
I looked up the Litz BC for the 90gr SMK, which is .514 G1/.256 G7.
2700fps mv at sea level, 59°F Ran it through 2 different programs using G7 and G1 models. That puts it supersonic anywhere from 1075-1140fps. With the 90gr VLD/.283 G7 BC, it takes it out to 1225fps using G7 drag model. Berger requires a 1/6" twist for the 90gr VLD. Berger Target Bullets This is the first major ammo manufacturer who has picked up one of the .224 Wildcats off the newer, higher capacity cases for the AR15, which opens up that option for those who don't want to form brass or who just want to be able to by ammo and shoot. This should do really well in the gas gun matches. It basically delivers the cartridge one of the Army Ordnance engineers wanted back in 1957, where he suggested to take the .25 Remington and neck it down to .224 to make the SCHV camp happy, while still being able to easily perforate the M1 steel helmet at 500yds. Several people have been necking the SPC case down to .224 over the years, but until now, no major ammunition maker has offered a factory option, so Federal getting behind it is pretty big. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 1:01:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is the first major ammo manufacturer who has picked up one of the .224 Wildcats off the newer, higher capacity cases for the AR15, which opens up that option for those who don't want to form brass or who just want to be able to by ammo and shoot. This should do really well in the gas gun matches. It basically delivers the cartridge one of the Army Ordnance engineers wanted back in 1957, where he suggested to take the .25 Remington and neck it down to .224 to make the SCHV camp happy, while still being able to easily perforate the M1 steel helmet at 500yds. Several people have been necking the SPC case down to .224 over the years, but until now, no major ammunition maker has offered a factory option, so Federal getting behind it is pretty big. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 1:07:59 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If one were getting in to PRS type paper/steel punching, does it look as good as 6mm or 6.5mm creedmoor, from a drop/drift perspective? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is the first major ammo manufacturer who has picked up one of the .224 Wildcats off the newer, higher capacity cases for the AR15, which opens up that option for those who don't want to form brass or who just want to be able to by ammo and shoot. This should do really well in the gas gun matches. It basically delivers the cartridge one of the Army Ordnance engineers wanted back in 1957, where he suggested to take the .25 Remington and neck it down to .224 to make the SCHV camp happy, while still being able to easily perforate the M1 steel helmet at 500yds. Several people have been necking the SPC case down to .224 over the years, but until now, no major ammunition maker has offered a factory option, so Federal getting behind it is pretty big. The 6mm cats off of the Grendel case are the ones to beat in the AR15 for wind drift. 6mm AR and 6mm AR Turbo pushing 105gr and 107gr 6mm bullets with G7 BCs in the .3 region at 2750-2850fps. The 6mm Creedmoor (requires a larger, heavier receiver and BCG) pushes the same bullets to 3100fps. If you've ever shot a 6mm AR/.243 LBC, or 6mm AR Turbo, there is hardly any recoil. I would really like to see a big ammo maker get behind that. Hornady did the 6mm Hagar, but case length is too long for any of the high BC projectiles at mag length in the AR15, so it didn't really take off. For the SPC-based cartrtidges, the AerMet LMT enhanced bolts are the ones to beat, but you also need to be careful pushing pressures due to the barrel tennon. Keep it at 53,000psi or less, otherwise you'll egg the chamber out quickly, especially with stainless steels. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 1:34:12 PM EDT
[#30]
I can’t confirm it but I’ve heard this is a new generation of 90gr SMK.
As to barrels, WOA sells a barrel extension that allows for a thicker/longer tenon and that should make a difference. Obviously that’s for custom barrels. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 2:11:47 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I can’t confirm it but I’ve heard this is a new generation of 90gr SMK. As to barrels, WOA sells a barrel extension that allows for a thicker/longer tenon and that should make a difference. Obviously that’s for custom barrels. Even when I ran the 90gr VLD though, it didn't make it supersonic to 1300yds using a G7 model. If they get the BC up higher with a pointed meplat, that will help. Sierra has been doing that with the 6mm 107gr SMK and 110gr SMK, which are really the class of bullets you want for shooting 1000yds in the wind. 110gr SMK is well over .6 for G1, and over .3 for G7. The 6.5mm 123gr SMK has a higher BC than at least the older .224 90gr SMK. Would be interesting to see them upgrade all their SMKs that people actually shoot. The .224 Valkyrie is a serious improvement over the .223 Rem though by a long shot. A barrel extension that moves the relief cut for the threads more forward to where the pressure has gone down is one way of dealing with the wall thickness of the AR15. Should be able to handle 55,000psi after that. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 2:29:20 PM EDT
[#32]
I’m sure you’re familiar with the product but fornthose thatbarent it uses 20TPI instead of 16, and moves the relief cut to the barrel extension which is .3” longer and therefor that much farther forward. I’m not sure what the increase in minor diameter is in absolute terms but it’s visibly larger.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 3:29:33 PM EDT
[#33]
The relief is in the extension, where it should be, instead of in the barrel.
I'm not totally sure, but I think along with being 20 tpi, the major is larger than the .812" of a normal extension. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 3:45:17 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If one were getting in to PRS type paper/steel punching, does it look as good as 6mm or 6.5mm creedmoor, from a drop/drift perspective? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is the first major ammo manufacturer who has picked up one of the .224 Wildcats off the newer, higher capacity cases for the AR15, which opens up that option for those who don't want to form brass or who just want to be able to by ammo and shoot. This should do really well in the gas gun matches. It basically delivers the cartridge one of the Army Ordnance engineers wanted back in 1957, where he suggested to take the .25 Remington and neck it down to .224 to make the SCHV camp happy, while still being able to easily perforate the M1 steel helmet at 500yds. Several people have been necking the SPC case down to .224 over the years, but until now, no major ammunition maker has offered a factory option, so Federal getting behind it is pretty big. |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 4:18:57 PM EDT
[#35]
Here is the link to many more graphs... compared to .22 Nosler, 6.5 Grendel, 5.56 etc...
Velocity, Energy, Drop, Drift.... http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/06/ar-15s-creedmoor-224-valkyrie-vs-22-nosler-6-5-grendel-modern-intermediate-calibers-025/ More info... http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2017/10/04/larue-surg-224-valkyrie-big-3-east/ |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 10:27:17 PM EDT
[#36]
I want to see this necked up to 6mm.
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Posted: 10/18/2017 10:30:08 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to see this necked up to 6mm. |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 1:21:33 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So a Hagar? |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 12:21:15 PM EDT
[#39]
Will work with standard AR15 lower and PRI mags are clearly the best choice for any 6.8 case.
LWRC Advanced Combat Bolt would be my choice. I’ve got well over 1000 rounds through mine and no issues or signs of degradation. |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 12:51:30 PM EDT
[#40]
22x6.8 has been around for a while now. I looked at building one a couple years ago but didn't have the time for another wildcat. Nice to see some factory loads coming out for it, might be a good time to take another look at it.
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Posted: 10/19/2017 6:16:18 PM EDT
[#41]
I'm currently saving up for glass for a long-range ar15. Was going 6.5, but now I will sit back and watch what happens and make the barrel choice in spring. For long-range, long barrel, paper punching AR, this is a great development, but I won't be the first to jump on board.
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Posted: 10/19/2017 10:59:53 PM EDT
[#42]
I'm going to be watching this one. My customers are always wanting to know "what's new" so this will be on my short list.
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Posted: 10/29/2017 8:39:15 AM EDT
[#43]
I agree with chewbacca, this has the shoulder set back to allow for the long heavy 90gr .223 pills. Keep the shoulder set back at this same point, open the neck to .243 or .257. If only the quarterbore had a more complete choice of bullets appropriate.
DB |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 10:24:11 AM EDT
[#44]
This 224 Valkyrie sort of reminds me of the venerable 5.6x63 Von Hofe Super Express cartridge that came out in 1937 in Germany. It used heavier than normal extra long bullets. Typically 77 grains or heavier. Some bullet designs had long needle like tips to them too. But the extra long bullets had some phenomenal ballistics though. Unfortunately for the cartridge WWII started which likely killed it off for sporting uses outside of a few years in Germany. But for a while it was quite popular for hunting in Germany, especially with the rimmed cartridge version used in the multi-caliber drilling guns at the time.
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Posted: 10/29/2017 11:40:53 AM EDT
[#45]
I've got a billet lower I need to start getting ready to build out. I was originally going to do .223 Wylde, then decided on Grendel, now this Valkyrie comes along... tough decision. It's between the Grendel and Valkyrie at this point. Thanks for all the info.
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Posted: 10/29/2017 2:21:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I agree with chewbacca, this has the shoulder set back to allow for the long heavy 90gr .223 pills. Keep the shoulder set back at this same point, open the neck to .243 or .257. If only the quarterbore had a more complete choice of bullets appropriate. DB |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 7:10:19 PM EDT
[#47]
That FB page has some numbers... his 18" and a comment about a 24" doing 2900fps with the 90gr SMK.
https://www.facebook.com/Shadow6.net/?hc_ref=ARTAcjRzmWVozL3k55B5zDje0iTjorRZWy23PjhXtx5JdfC2220cZVPYus2GDKQIgWc |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 9:30:36 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That FB page has some numbers... his 18" and a comment about a 24" doing 2900fps with the 90gr SMK. https://www.facebook.com/Shadow6.net/?hc_ref=ARTAcjRzmWVozL3k55B5zDje0iTjorRZWy23PjhXtx5JdfC2220cZVPYus2GDKQIgWc |
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Posted: 10/31/2017 10:49:57 AM EDT
[#49]
Very good chance I will be looking for a 24".
Maximize the velocity.. etc. |
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Posted: 10/31/2017 11:36:05 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Said his 20" handload with 90gr was 2667 out of a 20" barrel. Guesstimation of 60ish foot per second loss per inch of barrel. I will probably be looking at a 20" when and if I buy. |
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