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Posted: 10/6/2017 1:34:53 PM EDT
[#1]
If you compare the pics you can actually see the rust pattern and where it's pitted the same area after cleaning. I have a BCA AR15 ruskie caliber and love it but that is unacceptable...
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Posted: 10/6/2017 1:38:28 PM EDT
[#2]
Range report from earlier today. I took the freshly cleaned and rust free Bear Creek Arsenal upper and mated it to a Windham Weaponry lower.
This is a factory spec lower complete with basic Mil Spec trigger. I did replace the firing pin with an enhanced firing pin. The firing pin included in the BCG is not an enhanced version. I mounted a Vortex Diamondback 4-12x40 scope. Way more magnification than I plan to use on this upper, but it was what I had available. Magazines were C-Products 7.63x39 AR mags, one 20 round and 2 10 rounds. Ammunition was cheap steel case Tula and Bernaul. I fired 40 rounds of Tula and 80 rounds of Bernaul. Each magazine was used 3 times. 100% function with every round, 100% bolt lock back on each empty mag and consistent ejection noted. Here's my "accuracy" set up:  Attached File50 yard groups off bags:  Attached File Attached FileAll in all I'm happy. Function was 100% and accuracy was reasonable. Before I left I did some shooting at 100 yards. One of the target boards had a life size deer target, and I took 20 shots at 6X Mag doing my best to simulate various hunting shooting positions - braced off a tree stand gun rail, braced against a tree, off shooting sticks & seated at the base of a tree - every shot hit well within a paper plate sized group. I'm going to try some better factory ammo (Hornady SST most likely) and see if I can shrink the group size s little. I may just take this rifle hunting in some of the heavy cover timber areas. ETA: I tiok a picture of the wrong Bernaul group. There was another target with a full 10 round group, which did look similar to the group pictures. |
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Posted: 10/6/2017 4:27:26 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Doesn't change the fact that my next cheap upper will be a PSA. |
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Posted: 10/6/2017 4:28:47 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you compare the pics you can actually see the rust pattern and where it's pitted the same area after cleaning. I have a BCA AR15 ruskie caliber and love it but that is unacceptable... I cleaned one of them and you can see some staining or pitting. The other one I have not cleaned. |
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Posted: 10/6/2017 9:40:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Interesting. I think the assessment about corrosive Tula ammo may be a good possibility. I've dealt with 4 BCA barrels...two phosphate 300BO's and two 5.56 units. None of them had a speck of rust in the chamber, bore, or anywhere else.
I've never used Tula ammo. If some of it has elements in the powder and/or primers that can cause these results, I don't think I'll be using it. Yes, you can clean the chamber/bore after every session with this ammo, but I don't think I want that requirement as an absolute. Then again, maybe this is just with the 7.62X39 stuff. |
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Posted: 10/6/2017 9:43:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I think the assessment about corrosive Tula ammo may be a good possibility. . |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 9:09:21 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I think the assessment about corrosive Tula ammo may be a good possibility. I've dealt with 4 BCA barrels...two phosphate 300BO's and two 5.56 units. None of them had a speck of rust in the chamber, bore, or anywhere else. I've never used Tula ammo. If some of it has elements in the powder and/or primers that can cause these results, I don't think I'll be using it. Yes, you can clean the chamber/bore after every session with this ammo, but I don't think I want that requirement as an absolute. Then again, maybe this is just with the 7.62X39 stuff. |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 9:18:01 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thise pics are much worse than I was envisioning when I read your earlier comments on some rust. Wow. Hard to believe they are sending out uppers in that condition. I'll be sure to break out the bronze brush and CLP ASAP after mine arrives. IMHO, that negates any "bargin" aspect for me ! I hope everyone's barrels shoot well. BC could have avoided most of this by just swabbing the bore and chamber after a test firing.... personally I doubt they have corrosive 7.62x39 laying around ( who knows though ) I think they just test fired them and didn't care. I haven't looked at their website... are the bores chrome lined at all ? |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 10:12:22 AM EDT
[#9]
PSA has their complete 7.62x39 upper for 250, and the upper without BCG and CH for 150 this morning.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa47-16-7-62x39-upper-w-bcg-and-charging-handle.html http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa47-16-carbine-length-7-62x39-nitride-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle-5164463801.html lifetime warranty I assume..... fwiw |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 12:18:17 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tula ammo is not corrosive. Hasn't been for quite a while. More likely they had a batch of uppers that weren't stored correctly or something to that effect. And as far as the accuracy issue for their cheapest barrels in 5.56 and 300BO, I've frankly been a little surprised at how good they are. The one on the most recent setup in 300BO that I helped a friend install to replace his 5.56 with a 16" 300BO cost $63...plain vanilla phosphate all the way. It shoots 2" at 100 yards with a 3X9 scope with the cheapest Remington ammo he had...supersonic not suppressed. |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 12:27:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Interesting. I think the assessment about corrosive Tula ammo may be a good possibility... I've never used Tula ammo. |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 12:31:14 PM EDT
[#12]
I have sold hundreds of barrels (in many calibers) made by Bear Creek. I absolutely think think they are the best value barrel on the market.
I think the only issue is some of these pre-assembled 7.62x39 uppers were test fired with corrosive ammo and not cleaned. It won't be hard for them to figure it out and I have 100% faith that they will get the issue sorted out and take care of anyone that has had issues. |
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Posted: 10/7/2017 12:33:44 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good to know. As I stated I have no experience with Tula or any 7.62X39 caliber stuff. Nothing against the caliber, I guess I'm just not an AK caliber gun guy. Still, it appears that this is only showing up in 7.62X39 so far, isn't it? Seems odd they'd do something different in prepping their barrels in that caliber differently to cause this. I've seen quite a few of their other plain, phosphate barrels in other calibers with none of this rust issue. And as far as the accuracy issue for their cheapest barrels in 5.56 and 300BO, I've frankly been a little surprised at how good they are. The one on the most recent setup in 300BO that I helped a friend install to replace his 5.56 with a 16" 300BO cost $63...plain vanilla phosphate all the way. It shoots 2" at 100 yards with a 3X9 scope with the cheapest Remington ammo he had...supersonic not suppressed. |
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Posted: 10/15/2017 11:51:03 AM EDT
[#14]
@jonblack - did you ever hear back from Bear Creek about your barrel(s)?
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Posted: 10/15/2017 6:51:19 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
PSA has their complete 7.62x39 upper for 250, and the upper without BCG and CH for 150 this morning. http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa47-16-7-62x39-upper-w-bcg-and-charging-handle.html http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-pa47-16-carbine-length-7-62x39-nitride-upper-without-bcg-or-charging-handle-5164463801.html lifetime warranty I assume..... fwiw |
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Posted: 10/15/2017 7:29:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Took mine out the other day, shot 30 rounds of Tula and 30 of Red Army Standard. Total through the upper now 110 rounds, one malfunction and that was my fault. Don't rest the bottom of an ASC magazine on the bench, no matter how convenient it is. That was the one round that caused a misfeed. Still using the firing pin it came with and the springs that came in the PSA LPK I have in the lower.
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Posted: 10/16/2017 2:50:17 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@jonblack - did you ever hear back from Bear Creek about your barrel(s)? I contacted them and then sent me a shipping label and said they would replace the barrels for me. We stay so busy in our store that I have not had enough time to get the uppers boxed up and shipped back. Like I said earlier I have no doubts that BCA will take care of the issue. Hopefully they figure out were they are going wrong (test firing corrosive ammo?) so they can get past this. On a side note, someone did a transfer of a complete BCA 7.62x39 carbine through us last week. Figured I would sneak a peak in the barrel. Rusted from top to bottom! |
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Posted: 10/17/2017 9:10:27 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aero I contacted them and then sent me a shipping label and said they would replace the barrels for me. We stay so busy in our store that I have not had enough time to get the uppers boxed up and shipped back. Like I said earlier I have no doubts that BCA will take care of the issue. Hopefully they figure out were they are going wrong (test firing corrosive ammo?) so they can get past this. On a side note, someone did a transfer of a complete BCA 7.62x39 carbine through us last week. Figured I would sneak a peak in the barrel. Rusted from top to bottom! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@jonblack - did you ever hear back from Bear Creek about your barrel(s)? I contacted them and then sent me a shipping label and said they would replace the barrels for me. We stay so busy in our store that I have not had enough time to get the uppers boxed up and shipped back. Like I said earlier I have no doubts that BCA will take care of the issue. Hopefully they figure out were they are going wrong (test firing corrosive ammo?) so they can get past this. On a side note, someone did a transfer of a complete BCA 7.62x39 carbine through us last week. Figured I would sneak a peak in the barrel. Rusted from top to bottom! It’s funny that I said previously my opinion of Bear Creek was low but this upper has actually improved my perception. Aside from the surface rust, the upper is put together well. I was halfway expecting slipshod construction but was pleasantly surprised. If they can just get a handle on the rust issue now... |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 12:54:41 AM EDT
[#19]
Quoted:
Asked in GD on general opinion of these when I ordered one and it was suggested that once I received it I post here as well. Gambled and bought before posting. Received the upper 2 days ago, seems well put together. Minor issues - the bayonet lug is oversized and the $20 carry handle...meh, it's worth $20. Less minor, they must test fire with corrosive ammo because I received the upper 3 weeks after factory test fire(according to the date on the QC tag), and the whole bore had a film of rust. That cleaned out with no sign of pitting so while annoying mine was fixable. Positives, it fits the lower well(80% build I got from my brother) and anodizing is a fair color match. Shot 50 rounds of Tula today using the firing pin it came with and the PSA springs I already had in the lower. No malfunctions and 15 rounds went into a 3.5-3.7 inch group at 100 yards. Could have done better if I'd put more effort into tight groups, and definitely would have shot better with better ammo-overall, for having well under $400 in the rifle I like it(after cleaning). Bad guys, zombies and coyotes are bigger than 3.7 inches so it should do the job. I did email BCA about the rust, no response yet but if it gets them to clean/oil the barrels after test firing it's an issue that should be a non-issue in the future. Headstamp on the test fire cases looked like 603, anyone know what that is? https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/146284/7624-312339.JPGhttps://i.imgur.com/pxSo9Ob.jpg Does anybody know who's headstamp that is? Is that a steel case? They say not to use steel cased ammo in their uppers. 
What are the head stamp on the cases that came with everybody else's uppers? |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 7:21:26 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Does anybody know who's headstamp that is? Is that a steel case? They say not to use steel cased ammo in their uppers.
What are the head stamp on the cases that came with everybody else's uppers? |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 8:05:06 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Someone said the headstamp I posted is a Barnaul case. I have some steel Monarch from Academy, same headstamp, even has the headstamp and "Barnaul" on the flap of the packaging. Without case in hand, cant be 100% sure it's steel though. As to how the barrels got rusted, I'd guess something else is going on. I now have a reason to stay away from them, no matter how cheap Classic marks them down. Bear Creek needs to publicly respond imho, or it will soon spread all over the Internet that "buy a new BearCreek, get a rusted barrel"... |
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Posted: 10/18/2017 11:04:52 PM EDT
[#22]
 Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached FileThey were quick to send a RMA. Couple weeks later, I’ve received an upper that may or may not be the original, with a scrubbed looking but rusty chamber, a barrel that looks worse, and a scuffed upper marked “rust”. |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 12:50:11 AM EDT
[#23]
I wunder if it could be some thing wrong with the way they are parkerized them?
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Posted: 10/19/2017 7:47:23 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I wunder if it could be some thing wrong with the way they are parkerized them? |
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Posted: 10/19/2017 11:33:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Aero
Had someone transfer in one of those polymer lowers yesterday, alongside a BCA 7.62x39 upper. Guess what...yep, rusted. I have sold Anderson 7.62x39 barrels for a couple of years, and they are made by BCA. Never had a problem. Now that I am sourcing straight from BCA I am getting rusty barrels. The outside looks great but the insides are rusted like crazy. The photos above have me worried that I am just going to get some "cleaned" barrel, which I could do myself. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 2:17:48 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Aero Had someone transfer in one of those polymer lowers yesterday, alongside a BCA 7.62x39 upper. Guess what...yep, rusted. I have sold Anderson 7.62x39 barrels for a couple of years, and they are made by BCA Never had a problem. Now that I am sourcing straight from BCA I am getting rusty barrels. The outside looks great but the insides are rusted like crazy. The photos above have me worried that I am just going to get some "cleaned" barrel, which I could do myself. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 2:39:02 AM EDT
[#27]
What is the barrel profile on these, under the hand guards? HBar?
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Posted: 10/20/2017 7:46:38 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the barrel profile on these, under the hand guards? HBar? |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 7:55:07 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have sold Anderson 7.62x39 barrels for a couple of years, and they are made by BCA. Never had a problem. |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 3:06:22 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What is the barrel profile on these, under the hand guards? HBar? https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/barrels?spec_caliber=34 |
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Posted: 10/20/2017 9:42:32 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Huh, never knew that. |
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Posted: 10/21/2017 9:45:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here are pics from their web sight. Looks like hbar. https://www.bearcreekarsenal.com/barrels?spec_caliber=34  Attached File |
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Posted: 10/29/2017 8:00:32 PM EDT
[#33]
I'm going to look at mine when I get home... Just built two rifles with BCA uppers.
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Posted: 10/30/2017 3:37:26 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm going to look at mine when I get home... Just built two rifles with BCA uppers.
When ever I get a barrel or upper the first thing I do is look through the bore. |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 3:42:18 AM EDT
[#35]
I posted over in bcas industry forum to let them know about this thread, it's been ten days and no reply yet.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/maybe-BCA-could-chime-in-on-this-thread-/732-285490/ |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 8:47:08 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I posted over in bcas industry forum to let them know about this thread, it's been ten days and no reply yet. https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/maybe-BCA-could-chime-in-on-this-thread-/732-285490/ |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 9:11:24 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I tagged their industry account in this thread about a month ago, and not a peep. I don't think a rep actually monitors this board. |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 1:55:35 PM EDT
[#38]
I'm getting the feeling they (BCA) are using corrosive ammo when they are test firing their uppers...I almost ruined
a custom built x39mm complete upper with a 18" Stainless barrel when I test fired it using Tula/Wolff ammo marked NON CORROSIVE ! So one would think such ammo would not harm the bore even if it was left for days or weeks w/o cleaning the bore, WRONG ! The Upper was super accurate and reliable, It was especially accurate with brass cased American ammo was sub MOA at 100 yards of the portable bench (that wasn't very stable) with a decent scope mounted to it...little did I know the steel cased commercial Russian ammo was Indeed corrosive even though the boxes were marked NON CORROSIVE and were current production... Long story short, I was reading a article regarding current production Russian ammo being corrosive even though the boxes were marked NON CORROSIVE...So sure enough I quickly checked the barrel/upper on the custom X39mm and you guessed it RUST FILM in the chamber and bore of the barrel and BCG in some areas ! Naturally I quickly scrubbed and oiled it vigorously and luckily no permanent damage was seen or anything Ill affects were noted...Never will I trust the non corrosive labeling on foreign made ammo again, especially Russian ammo. I will ALWAYS clean out the bore and chamber area right after shooting a weapon... Certainly BCA needs to do a better job of QC on the barrels and uppers BEFORE they leave the shipping department ! Good luck all. Test fire shots video clip... Test Firing X39mm |
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Posted: 10/30/2017 3:15:36 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm getting the feeling they (BCA) are using corrosive ammo when they are test firing their uppers...I almost ruined a custom built x39mm complete upper with a 18" Stainless barrel when I test fired it using Tula/Wolff ammo marked NON CORROSIVE ! So one would think such ammo would not harm the bore even if it was left for days or weeks w/o cleaning the bore, WRONG ! The Upper was super accurate and reliable, It was especially accurate with brass cased American ammo at sub MOA at 100 yards of the portable bench (not very stable) with a decent scope mounted to it...little did I know the steel cased commercial Russian ammo was Indeed corrosive even though the boxes were marked NON CORROSIVE and were current production... Long story short, I was ready a article regarding current production Russian ammo being corrosive even though the boxes were marked NON CORROSIVE...So sure enough I quickly checked the barrel/upper on the custom X39mm and you guessed it RUST FILM in the chamber and bore of the barrel and BCG in some areas ! Naturally I quickly scrubbed and oiled it vigorously and luckily no permanent damage was seen or anything Ill affects were noted...Never will I trust the non corrosive labeling on foreign made ammo again, especially Russian ammo. I will ALWAYS clean out the bore and chamber area right after shooting a weapon... Certainly BCA needs to do a better job of QC on the barrels and uppers BEFORE they leave the shipping department ! Good luck all. Test fire shots video clip... Test Firing X39mm If it really is corrosive ammo the only way to clean it is with hot water and or Windex. I've tried cleaning old guns that I'd shot corrosive ammo in with regular cleaning supplies and no matter how much you scrub and oil, the corrosive salts remain and continue to corrode. You also contaminate your cleaning tools (brushes, bore snake, etc) and you'll cross contaminate your other guns. |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 12:01:55 AM EDT
[#40]
I did the $199 side charge 7.62x39 upper way back in April. I had a rust issue too.
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Posted: 11/1/2017 1:26:08 AM EDT
[#41]
BCA complete 7.62x39 upper for $199.
Anybody willing to roll the dice? I'd buy one my self but I'm trying to quit spending so much. If anybody ordered one, please post if the bore was rusted. |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 2:15:11 AM EDT
[#42]
Tempting....
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Posted: 11/1/2017 8:04:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tempting.... I wouldn't chance $200 on this headache. Jmho |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 9:32:39 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
BCA complete 7.62x39 upper for $199. Anybody willing to roll the dice? I'd buy one my self but I'm trying to quit spending so much. If anybody ordered one, please post if the bore was rusted. |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 10:07:07 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Surely Classic isn't sitting on a pallet of uppers with rusted bores? Would be nice to know.... |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 10:08:56 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You didn't look down the bore as soon as you got the uppers?
When ever I get a barrel or upper the first thing I do is look through the bore. |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 10:56:41 PM EDT
[#47]
The surface rust cleaned up fine with mine and didn’t impact function. I wanted a rattle can, EE project and this was the opportunity for under $425.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 11/1/2017 10:57:40 PM EDT
[#48]
double tap, and sorry for the dirty shed door
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Posted: 11/2/2017 12:22:28 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The surface rust cleaned up fine with mine and didn’t impact function. I wanted a rattle can, EE project and this was the opportunity for under $425. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/93996/A34BFBBB-2317-4A54-B302-30E8AB4BD6BB-350692.JPG Can I ask what handguard you installed? |
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Posted: 11/2/2017 6:36:07 AM EDT
[#50]
I went with the psa upper because of the potential rust issues in the bca upper.
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