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Posted: 2/22/2006 12:48:53 PM EDT
Getting ready to build a SOCOM upper into a more precision shooter. Magnified scopes are new to me and am wondering what some of the favs are.

Cold seems to do wonders to the pig population with his set up.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 12:53:54 PM EDT
I have a Leupold Vari-X III Illuminated Duplex on mine and it works great
Will allow hits to what I consider end range of my shooting ability

Just ordered a Eotech 512 to put on it for short range shooting. Will allow a little faster shots in the 50 yards and in range.
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 3:24:07 PM EDT
I'm using an Aimpoint on mine right now, and I'm hitting 6 inch plates at 200yds with 300-400gn loads no problem. Anything else and I'm afraid of getting the dreaded "Scope eye".

Tom
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 6:53:58 PM EDT
Have used nothing but a 3-9 power on mine since I first started working on it. I have settled with a Redfield LE9 of which I mailed into Redfield and had them change the ranging rectile out with a milspec one. Keeping on 4 power I shoot well under 1' groups at 100yrds. Have not paced it past that yet. Have no problems with scope eye - just set it up correctly and you should not have a problem.

Group buy on the Super Sniper scopes..........sale is at noon of the 28th. For the money - the 10 power would do all of the down range picking you need!
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 7:25:23 PM EDT
I've got a Nightforce on mine, with one of the ranging reticles (NPR-2). You did not say whether you want precision paper or precision live targets, but I would say that if you have live targets in your plans, than any better quality optic with some type of ranging cross hairs or mil dots would help with the 458 trajectory calculations. If you plan on punching paper, and have time to fiddle between shots, than a scope with good tight repeatable clicks on a target knob would shine.

Craig
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:47:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/22/2006 9:52:40 PM EDT by Cold]

Originally Posted By newbe:
Getting ready to build a SOCOM upper into a more precision shooter. Magnified scopes are new to me and am wondering what some of the favs are.

Cold seems to do wonders to the pig population with his set up.

Thanks.




Heh, wait till you see what I am going to use this weekend....a friend 1 hour south of Dallas, has a piggie problem, and needless to say, I am going to do my best to clear the situation up.

now for the past year I have used a Leupold VX III 3-9 mildot. However....I am going to try an EOtech 552 rev f...will see how this goes for faster repeat shots. I tend to like to engage them at close range and then work on my running shots from there with my 3-9, will see how it goes with the EOtech. Now, US Optics is coming out with a new hunting line of scopes called Jager. I am going to be demo'ing one or two of these for them on a few hunts. I know their stuff is heavy, but they claim these will be closer to NF scopes in weight. If money is no object, the NF is the way to go.

Now some really nice guy loaded me 405 grain remingtons, which I am going to sight in friday for the saturday and sunday pig and predator hunt this weekend. im very excited to see if they stay IN THE ANIMAL as opposed to going in and out. I would love massive energy dumps into the target without exiting the animal, this round might do the trick!

Oh and heres some eyecandy, I got a few more skulls back and a new round added to the list.



from left to right: Boar Skull (that boar was shot with my 458 SOCOM), empty 50 Beowulf, empty 458 SOCOM case, 300 grain CORBON load, 400 grain Brass round nose CORBON load, 400 grain Barnes X, 405 grain remington softpoint, 66 grain hollowpoint Sabot, 72 grain Sierra Match Game King Sabot, and for compairson 300 grain 45-70 Gov't loaded by Winchester. Boar skull

inset, some snake i shot while trying to ruin a deer camp, and a coon skull which was ruined by a 17 HMR...

Link Posted: 2/22/2006 9:57:59 PM EDT
Cold
Where did you find the sabots at?
Chris
Link Posted: 2/22/2006 10:14:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By uafgrad:
Cold
Where did you find the sabots at?
Chris



Well, I got them as a demo, to test on some animals, boars, Coyotes/bobcats and some red fox. However when I went to Dallas Gun Club with my shooting buddy.....I found that I couldnt get them to group right out of the gate at 25 yards, the 77 grain SGK DID cycle the action, I shot 5 rounds with out any issues, however, I was not getting anything but a shotgun pattern on the Shoot N See target, not to mention the sabot left a nice smack on there too, which was rather neat! It would be great to see 77 grain SGK's loaded for the 458, the load itself was obviously very light to shoot. I only shot 3 rounds of the other sabot load however it did NOT cycle the action, I had what was basically a stove pipe after the first shot. I believe they were loaded with the same charge but I cant be sure. I would love for this sabot concept to come around but it needs more testing by people with far greater reloading ablity then mine (as I have yet to take the dive and buy a press, yet I own dies...brass and bullets...). Beyond hunting with them, the concept seems great to me, imagine being hit in the chest with that sabot.... then the 77 grain SGK...not pretty....the SGK is a vicious round, second only to the Barnes X IMHO.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 6:08:29 AM EDT
I'm using a Meopta 1.5-5X20 with a post reticle. The Meopta scopes are increadably clear and TOUGH. They are designed for dangerous game rifles like the big Nitro Express's and Lotts. I went to this optic after my .458 killed my ACOG and my EO Tech.

If you get the chance, try to compare a Zeiss, a Schmidt & Bender, and a Meopta side by side. You will see the "family resembelance" except in the price tag.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 1:24:05 PM EDT
Jerry,,

That is interesting about the Acog and Eo-thingy. The 458 is a bit befuddling when it comes to optics. The recoil is certainly no worse than a 12 guage shotgun, and I know guys that have much lesser glass on their shotguns with no problems. I have destroyed one cheap red dot, and have a Leupold VX-I style scope that Leupold checked and said was fine, but it patterns on my 458. I think that the recoil is not enough to destroy the erector assembly, but enough to make it settle differently with each shot.

I have an Aimpoint that I use, one of the new 2 moa dots, but have not put enough rounds through it to call it good to go. I have a Nikon Monarch that has survived many hundreds of rounds, and it is certainly not what I would call a high end optic. I have always thought that the Burris line with the Posi-lock system might be a good choice if you can live without click adjustments. I just have a hard time with the Burris turrets.

How many rounds have you got with the Meopta? At some point I would like to add a low power variable to my QCB system which includes my 458. I would also like it to be less than a grand and a half. I'll take a look at the Meopta line. I live in a pretty remote area, and it is hard to get my mits on much of anything to compare side by side.

Thanks,

Craig
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 4:10:32 PM EDT
Thank you much guys!

I think I'm looking for something with the ranging cross hairs. This will be a "live target" rifle.

I guess I'm a little uneducated on the different tragectory paths with different weight bullets. I know that the heavier the round, the quicker the drop off. I'll probably end up with using one grain of bullet. I'm sure the different grain bullets for the SOCOM have very different paths.

Thanks again!
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 5:39:00 PM EDT
Newbe,

I'll throw some numbers out at you, to help visualize what is going on.

First, the trajectory is mostly a function of bullet speed and ballistic coefficient. Using the 300 Barnes X spire point, the bullet that Marty designed around originally, here's what things look like.

At 2000 fps muzzle velocity with a 100 yard zero and a 1.5 inch scope height:

(these numbers are rounded, roughly, and I can easily get 2000 fps with my 20" bbl)

100 yds - 0.00
200 yds - down 10 inches
300 yds - down 32 inches
400 yds - down 74 inches
500 yds - down 137 inches

The kicker with this bullet is that at 200 yards, the velocity is at 1600 fps, which is the lower threshold of the bullet to open reliably. No expansion equals FMJ performance with this bullet. And, if you run the numbers with any of the flat point bullets designed for the 45-70 lever guns, it gets real ugly, fast.

You can use the numbers to roughly calculate the number of clicks needed, and it is easy to see that you can easily run out of scope click adjustment pretty easily past 200 yards. You can use similar math to help decide the number and spacing of crosshair ranging marks might be useful. It is also worth noting that a 30 mm scope tube will have more available clicks than a 1 inch tube.

I guess the bottom line in deciding what to do for a reticle and/or scope type is to figure out how far you want to shoot accurately, decide on a bullet, run the numbers through a ballistic program, then compare the drop numbers to what you want to have to do in the field. One minute of prairie dog or piggie is not the same as one minute of elk. Then there is always the option of spending the money on good clear glass with a simple cross hair, and using good old Kentucky elevation.

If you want me to run any numbers specifically for you, or clarify what I have posted, drop me a line.

Craig
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:32:29 PM EDT
Cold I have the 552 rev f on the 500P proto. At the range it has worked out great. Can not wait to get it out and do some - live tissue testing - of my own with it.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 7:44:05 PM EDT

Originally Posted By doc-rock:
Cold I have the 552 rev f on the 500P proto. At the range it has worked out great. Can not wait to get it out and do some - live tissue testing - of my own with it.


good to hear...I dont want my new EOtech crappying out on me....too soon! if the EOtech holds up to the 500P then the 458 SOCOM should be fine...let us hope.
Link Posted: 2/23/2006 10:04:09 PM EDT
Craig, I have about 100 rounds with the new Meopta with good luck so far. If you get a chance take a good hard look at the Meopta, the new Meostar is awesome and I wouldn't hesitate to buy another.
The ACOG knocked a prism loose at less than 60, and the EO Tech lasted about a dozen before the recoil crushed the battery contacts. I stretched the contacts back and it's 100% now.

To be fair, I have a Tromix lightweight and I wonder if the recoil impuls is "quicker" than a standard
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 3:32:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/25/2006 1:32:56 PM EDT by rrbgeb]
Key considerations - Eye relief and elevation adjustment.

For sighting in (edit should read, accuracy testing) and load development 3-9 Leupold VXIIc (a beater scope)

Normally wears a 1.5-5 VXIII. (much better eye relief)

If I was starting from scratch I'd go back with a 30 mm tube for the extra elevation adjustment. I'm at the limit of the 1" 1.5-5 for a 100 yd. zero with 405 gr. loads and a 16" bbl. Of course my loads are mild in comparison to some.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 5:44:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 5:45:28 AM EDT by Cold]

Originally Posted By rrbgeb:

For sighting in and load development 3-9 Leupold VXIIc (a beater scope)




....

Just curious, what after you have sighted in with said beater scope, what would you mount on your 458 SOCOM?
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:21:32 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/24/2006 8:22:00 AM EDT by SimonTan]
2.5-8X Mk4 M3 MR/T

A good balance of size, weight, performance and price. Added eye relief.

On a Larue SPR-E mount.

Try and get an older one with the cant built in.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 8:40:15 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SimonTan:
2.5-8X Mk4 M3 MR/T

A good balance of size, weight, performance and price. Added eye relief.

On a Larue SPR-E mount.

Try and get an older one with the cant built in.



looks to me like a Close quarters combat round and the 1.5x5 VX-III would be perfect with the Larue
SPR-E mount. The Aim Point would be my other choice. This things a mini mortor past 200 yards.
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:29:02 AM EDT
Jerry,

Thanks for the details. I might expect the contacts/springs on a device that is parallel to the recoil of the gun might suffer a bit. I have a Springfield scope that has inners that held up to quite a few 458 rounds, but the recoil would toss off the cap to the battery compartment. Very surprising info on the Acog.

Craig
Link Posted: 2/24/2006 9:35:32 PM EDT
Hence the cant. Run a M2 MRT on a .499 and it works great but if you reall want to shoot groups, the extra power is useful.

2.5-10x NF should be good too. LOTS of adjustement.

Simon
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