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Posted: 3/28/2006 3:11:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/28/2006 3:50:53 PM EDT by AR-Doctor]
This was the latest of a bad guy that was shot and killed here in Ohio. Are the L.E. in Ohio under gunned? Last I new, The O.S.P. weapons are a 12 ga. shotgun and a 45.ACP sidearm.

Here is the link to the story.


http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060328/NEWS03/603280412

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:01:30 AM EDT
[flamesuit on]They carry .40cal Sig P226's now[/flamesuit]

And a 12ga. That guy got out so quick and started shooting there was no time to gather the shotgun. A Wood Co. Deputy came in a little later and deployed some buckshot to the guy's head/neck. THAT did him in. I have to think some of the trooper's pistol rounds hit body armor.

YES as a firearms instructor I believe in the patrol carbine concept. Too bad my views are not worth shit. The brass (former highway patrol brass) doesn't want/believe in/feel we need carbines. "Nothing will ever happen to us lowly DNR officers." PLUS they think it's too "tactical/black/dangerous looking." I offered to buy pink Cav Arms furniture to soften the visual effect

It pisses me off because of the shit they send us into!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:36:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:45:31 AM EDT by Yojimbo]
Everyone needs an AR, especially those who may be going into harms way...
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:25:02 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:28:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:03:20 AM EDT
Your correct sir! VERY,VERY scary.

But very useful when you have a perp.that has you out gunned. This guy in Bluftton,oh had AR Pistol. Not sure it thats what he came out with shooting at police with. But latter repots said thats what he shot into the air with at first.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:09:33 AM EDT
I was cool being in Eurpoe in the Army. Euro airport security carried MP-5's. German Police routinely had a SMG's of one type or another in their cars. SMG's in Eurpoe are like shotguns in the USA--the next step above a pistol. I didn't see a lot of rifles, though.

Try that here in the good 'ol USA and people think they are in a fascist police state. I guess we want our people better armed than the police--whether out of desire or ignorance, I don't know.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 12:57:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 12:59:05 PM EDT by ThumbTact]
That is interesting. Here in WA it is rare to see a patrol car without an AR in the front of the cab. And I also happen to know that these tend to be M4's with 3 rnd burst.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:18:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ThumbTact:
That is interesting. Here in WA it is rare to see a patrol car without an AR in the front of the cab. And I also happen to know that these tend to be M4's with 3 rnd burst.



Am not sure about the full auto..

but I have seen several AR's in place of shotguns.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:23:59 PM EDT
Most LE agencies in WA, judging by what I have seen, issue or allow the use of M16s, M4s or AR15s. It is the rare patrol car that does not have one of those in a rack next to the driver.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:37:41 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:44:54 PM EDT
50 shots estimated

"Authorities estimated that officers fired 50 shots at Henry. The driver’s-side door of the Canadian couple’s SUV was riddled with bullets. "

They don't need bigger guns , but they may need more Training.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:50:57 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 2:58:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
50 shots estimated

"Authorities estimated that officers fired 50 shots at Henry. The driver’s-side door of the Canadian couple’s SUV was riddled with bullets. "

They don't need bigger guns , but they may need more Training.


Watch the video dumbass.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:18:30 PM EDT
Wow, he made it from BG to Bluffton?


Most of the LE agencies I've seen in the So Cal area have ARs in the front of the car. If the agency has the money to put AR-15s in patrol cars, they should all do it. Crap can happen anywhere, any time. Better to have it and not need than the other way around.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:24:18 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
50 shots estimated

"Authorities estimated that officers fired 50 shots at Henry. The driver’s-side door of the Canadian couple’s SUV was riddled with bullets. "

They don't need bigger guns , but they may need more Training.



Same group of guys that engaged the Kehoe brothers at [Ron White] Point Blank Range[/Ron White]. Front Sight Post fellas Front Sight Post.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 3:34:50 PM EDT
We carry 870's and Bushmaster AR 15"s in our cruisers. Sad thing is the AR's are in the trunk. Budget cuts this year will keep us from getting cab mounts. Priorties!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:42:37 PM EDT
There are L.E. here in ohio that carry there AR's in the front seat.Yes they are locked but so ar the 870's.Our S.O. has 4 units that carry MP-9. They are trained like a SWAT,Just in S.O. MP-9 vs AR. Well I'll take the AR. Nothing against the 9. But I know i can inflict alot of round with a carbine at some great distance.

This guy in Western,Ohio was one of Detroits finest (LOL). Your avarage low life. Figure that if you already have on a bullet prof vest then you MIGHT have a idea that you might need it,Go figure.

Also, I personal now a instructure on the State shooting team. Have seen this guy shot,from handgun (45 ACP) to Shotgun.Very impressive. Matter of fact i have tried like hell to have him get into doing some combat shooting training on the side and the State told him,, NO.

Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:45:46 PM EDT
shadowcop:

To bad you guys have no way of raising funds on the side to get those weapons where they belong. Next to your ass...

Getting from drivers seat to trunk in a fire fight is a long ways.

Good luck Bro..
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:51:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 4:56:15 PM EDT by watersniper]

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
50 shots estimated

"Authorities estimated that officers fired 50 shots at Henry. The driver’s-side door of the Canadian couple’s SUV was riddled with bullets. "

They don't need bigger guns , but they may need more Training.


Watch the video dumbass.




How much training is enough? The State Patrol trains more than most agencies. (More than us for sure) The sad fact is nationwide the officer hit ratio is abismal. 15-25% or something like that. Now if officers started a gun fight with a carbine, I'd bet those rates would climb a little.

ETA: try a simunitions course where you have to actually engage a suspect in a reality based scenario, and see how few shots make it on target. OR try paintball with a reality based scenario where you limit the paintball marker to 15 rounds or so... (no spray and pray paintball) And no full body head to toe safety gear either. Just head and neck cover.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 4:55:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AZ-K9:

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
50 shots estimated

"Authorities estimated that officers fired 50 shots at Henry. The driver’s-side door of the Canadian couple’s SUV was riddled with bullets. "

They don't need bigger guns , but they may need more Training.


Watch the video dumbass.




Ok , I watched the video - it doesn't show much of who was shooting.
I based my comment on the News Story.


BTW - don't EVER call me a name on this Board again
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 5:57:23 PM EDT
AKsRule:
The story kind of has its own legs here in ohio. And alot more to do with the western end of the state (ie closer to Detroit). This crimanal element has a taken to better arming them selves, and to body armory/vest. The point to my posting this thread was to bring to lite this story.

Did you read the follow up report about the part of him having a AR pistol? It was kind of hidden at the bottom of the news article. This guy had one thing on his mind.He was going to get what he wanted. And the use of deadly force was not part of his worries.

Im sorry,But i think the world is a better place with him not in it.

Trainng,trainng, and when your done, More trainng. Thats what we where tought in the Corps. It has to work!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 6:03:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fogofwar:
I was cool being in Eurpoe in the Army. Euro airport security carried MP-5's. German Police routinely had a SMG's of one type or another in their cars. SMG's in Eurpoe are like shotguns in the USA--the next step above a pistol. I didn't see a lot of rifles, though.

Try that here in the good 'ol USA and people think they are in a fascist police state. I guess we want our people better armed than the police--whether out of desire or ignorance, I don't know.



I guess you don't see the disconnect there.
Europe, all of it, is not a free place.

In the US, I firmly believe the police should have access to rifles.
The police should be armed just as well as the citizenry.
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 7:47:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/29/2006 7:48:25 PM EDT by Glock_10mm]

Originally Posted By AKsRule:
BTW - don't EVER call me a name on this Board again



What are you gonna do, tell your mommy?

Girly Man!
Link Posted: 3/29/2006 8:28:44 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/31/2006 3:30:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By fogofwar:
I was cool being in Eurpoe in the Army. Euro airport security carried MP-5's. German Police routinely had a SMG's of one type or another in their cars. SMG's in Eurpoe are like shotguns in the USA--the next step above a pistol. I didn't see a lot of rifles, though.

Try that here in the good 'ol USA and people think they are in a fascist police state. I guess we want our people better armed than the police--whether out of desire or ignorance, I don't know.



Well, the police definitely shouldn't be armed better than the people.
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