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Posted: 3/5/2006 12:30:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 6:35:20 AM EDT by FALARAK]
I am wanting to build an 18" to 20" SPR'ish gun to replace my varmint rig. The bull varmint rig is just too heavy, and I can build a cool factor gun with the same accuracy potential. My 20" wilson barrel varmint rig will do .5MOA with my handloads on a very regular basis. I have been very happy with my Wilson barrel, but I dont know if they are all consistently this good.


So - what barrel should I go with to build on? I was looking at the WOA SPR barrels, or ordering a Kreiger. What else is out there? What does the hive mind recommend for pure accuracy?

My biggest fear, is special ordering one, and then being slightly dissapointed in the accuracy potential. I want a tack driver. I will be handloading only for this barrel.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:47:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By FALARAK:
I am wanting to build an 18" to 20" SPR'ish gun to replace my varmint rig. The bull varmint rig is just too heavy, and I can build a cool factor gun with the same accuracy potential. My 20" wilson barrel varmint rig will do .5MOA with my handloads on a very regular basis.


So - what barrel should I go with to build on? I was looking at the WOA SPR barrels, or ordering a Kreiger. What else is out there? What does the hive mind recommend for pure accuracy?



LILJA if you want pure accuracy! If your looking economical than a WOA turned barrel. Just above that in order, Douglas, Pac Nor and Kreiger....Now this is just my Opinion, I'm sure others will chime in here and give you their thoughts.

Ant
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 12:55:05 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:36:18 PM EDT
For the money, maybe a Wilson? I always had luck with them.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 1:42:51 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 1:43:35 PM EDT by DK-Prof]
tag


... and another question to piggyback in this thread:


Are there dealers that sell barrels and install them (if you ship them your upper), or do you buy a barrel somewhere, and then ship it elsewhere to have it installed?


I don't have a decent vise or a receiver block, and I figure it's cheaper to have someone do it for me than buy all that stuff, and then still screw it up myself
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 3:01:01 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:23:37 PM EDT
Check out the Oly SUM.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 5:42:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/5/2006 5:44:48 PM EDT by Green0]
My observations of groups posted by users is that Douglas accuracy seems similar to RRA SS barrels. (maybe that's just the shooters but I haven't been "wow-d" by them.) The RRA/Wilson SS 1/8 was more impressive [me shooting my RRA DCM rifle] and I want to say for sure it would be cheaper.

Krieger triple cryoed cut rifled barrels rank high in my book.
Rock 5r barrels are up there with them.
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 6:15:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 4:24:43 AM EDT by jjmcrowell]

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
You rate a Douglas over a Krieger?
J



I think he is trying to say...

1. Lilja
2. Kreiger
3. Pac Nor
4. Douglas
5. WOA (edited)
Link Posted: 3/5/2006 9:37:49 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:14:52 AM EDT
How does WOA tune the Wilson barrels?
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 3:57:24 AM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:26:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By jjmcrowell:

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
You rate a Douglas over a Krieger?
J



I think he is trying to say...

1. Lilja
2. Kreiger
3. Pac Nor
4. Douglas
5. White Oak



Interesting that anyone would put a button rifle over a Krieger? Also, there is no "white Oak" barrel - those are Wilson barrels.



I'm just trying to decipher what he said....

My list is short...

1. Kreiger
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 4:53:00 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 4:53:34 AM EDT by C4iGrant]
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:10:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 6:11:27 AM EDT by bigbore]
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:27:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By metroplex:
How does WOA turned/contoured the Wilson barrels?



- on a lathe. There is no "tuning".



woops the text was tool small so it looked like someone wrote "tuned" instead of "turned"
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 6:32:45 AM EDT
Poll added.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 8:06:16 AM EDT
I have a custom Badger barrel cut by Northern Competition that I would rank with the very best. However, Badger and Northern Competition probably won't rank on any list because they are not in vogue.

Northern Competition

Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:03:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 9:04:49 AM EDT by Green0]
There must be different grades of Wilson, as my model 1 Wilson stainless shot like crap compared to my RRA wilson stainless. The WOA groups I've seen look like the RRA. If I had to guess the factory sorted and sold different barrels to different suppliers based on grade.

I think the idea that all the barrels produce the same results is rediculous.

I have heard from a custom barrel maker who's opinion is that a Rock 5R will probably only shoot .050inch smaller groups at 100yds than a Pacnor Polygonal, so they may be close, but they still rank seperate to him. Not a big deal at all to a military shooter, but to a bench rest guy that could be winning and losing right there.

The contour of the barrel of course will dictate results as well but that is two barrels of equal taper.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 9:45:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2006 9:46:59 AM EDT by Corporal_Chaos]

Originally Posted By Green0:
There must be different grades of Wilson, as my model 1 Wilson stainless shot like crap compared to my RRA wilson stainless. The WOA groups I've seen look like the RRA. If I had to guess the factory sorted and sold different barrels to different suppliers based on grade.

I think the idea that all the barrels produce the same results is rediculous.

I have heard from a custom barrel maker who's opinion is that a Rock 5R will probably only shoot .050inch smaller groups at 100yds than a Pacnor Polygonal, so they may be close, but they still rank seperate to him. Not a big deal at all to a military shooter, but to a bench rest guy that could be winning and losing right there.

The contour of the barrel of course will dictate results as well but that is two barrels of equal taper.



Wilson makes the blanks. It's entirely possible that the barrels were chambered and crowned by different shops. That said, as a matter of economics, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that Wilson sells different grades of barrels.

As to the original question, right now if I were to buy a precision barrel on a budget, I would go with something from WOA as offered by many of the vendors here. Stretching finances a little farther to $500 or $600 would probably allow for a cut-rifled barrel, which I'm sure is capable of producing far better accuracy than I (but then again, so is a properly button-rifled barrel).

ETA: I personally don't consider a $500 barrel to be "budget" oriented in any sense of the word.
Link Posted: 3/6/2006 7:48:17 PM EDT
voted woa wilson. ive only owned wilsons, and have been pleased. planned on a woa wylde chambered 1/7" 16" ss heavy contour. interested to see if other barrels are worth the $.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 2:52:41 AM EDT
Our of curiosity, are you talking about chrome lined RRA wilson barrels or unchrome lined RRA wilson barrels where they have comparable groupings to the WOA Wilson barrels?
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 4:24:29 AM EDT

Originally Posted By metroplex:
Our of curiosity, are you talking about chrome lined RRA wilson barrels or unchrome lined RRA wilson barrels where they have comparable groupings to the WOA Wilson barrels?



I imagine, that would be stainless Wilson blanks.
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:19:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/7/2006 8:42:58 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Green0:
There must be different grades of Wilson, as my model 1 Wilson stainless shot like crap compared to my RRA wilson stainless.




I didnt know Model 1 sold Wilsons. I know they use ER Shaw and Krieger.

Link Posted: 3/7/2006 10:27:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By jjmcrowell:

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By jjmcrowell:

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
You rate a Douglas over a Krieger?
J



I think he is trying to say...

1. Lilja
2. Kreiger
3. Pac Nor
4. Douglas
5. White Oak



Interesting that anyone would put a button rifle over a Krieger? Also, there is no "white Oak" barrel - those are Wilson barrels.



I'm just trying to decipher what he said....

My list is short...

1. Kreiger



+1
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 3:51:40 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:11:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By First_LSK:

Originally Posted By jjmcrowell:

Originally Posted By bigbore:

Originally Posted By jjmcrowell:

Originally Posted By JTAC_Supply:
You rate a Douglas over a Krieger?
J



I think he is trying to say...

1. Lilja
2. Kreiger
3. Pac Nor
4. Douglas
5. White Oak



Interesting that anyone would put a button rifle over a Krieger? Also, there is no "white Oak" barrel - those are Wilson barrels.



I'm just trying to decipher what he said....

My list is short...

1. Kreiger



+1



I can't see myself buying a Kreiger unless i'm trying to eek out High Master, my WOA barrel just crapped out, and I'm sitting on a pile of cash that has no better use. For the price of a Krieger installed you can almost get a WOA wilson and a Giessel trigger. Or for the difference you can get enought bullets for a busy season.
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:35:14 PM EDT
Krieger barrels are not only one of the most accurate (if not the most), but they are also the longest lasting super-match grade barrels. A single point cut will outlast a button pulled & stress relieved barrel. Point-being is that you are getting more than just an accurate barrel for your money.

So, when the question was asked about best quality for the money barrel, I based my answer on overall quality, accuracy, longivity vs. cost of the product.

Link Posted: 3/8/2006 6:53:14 PM EDT
what about SABRE Defense Barrels I know they supply alot for the military
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 7:59:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By First_LSK:
A single point cut will outlast a button pulled & stress relieved barrel.




I'm not commenting on the longevity of a Krieger vs. others, but wouldn't a process that works the metal increase barrel more so than a process that doesn't? Isn't this why CHF barrels are so durable?
Link Posted: 3/8/2006 8:09:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By V-Rod:
what about SABRE Defense Barrels I know they supply alot for the military



Thats an interesting question. Their 2006 catalog says they use both cut and button rifling techniques.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 2:21:34 PM EDT
As mentioned above............... Where are the Oly SUM barrels in the poll?
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 4:38:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Noxspector:
As mentioned above............... Where are the Oly SUM barrels in the poll?



Had one back when all they had was 1:10. It was a good barrel.... and I hear they are making 1:8 now.... but I just wont consider Oly products anymore. So they arent in *my* poll.
Link Posted: 3/9/2006 6:56:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Corporal_Chaos:

Originally Posted By First_LSK:
A single point cut will outlast a button pulled & stress relieved barrel.




I'm not commenting on the longevity of a Krieger vs. others, but wouldn't a process that works the metal increase barrel more so than a process that doesn't? Isn't this why CHF barrels are so durable?



I assume that you are referring to the work hardening of the steel. The rifling in a button barrel is not work hardend, but stressed -- as in stress cracks kind of stress. So much so, that after being rifled, the barrel must be heated and stress relieved. So, any possible benefit that may have resulted from the button pull, has been removed.

Here is what they ram through a button pulled bore:


Here is some really good reading about barrels:
Barrel Manufacture Processes
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:37:17 AM EDT
How do polygonal rifled barrels fit into the discussion of accurate barrels for the money?
Link Posted: 3/10/2006 9:42:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/10/2006 9:43:28 AM EDT by FMJ]
FALARAK let us know how it turns out?

For the money Im going to get a wilson and buy extra stuff with the savings!

I have a BushwackerA1 rack grade 20hbar that shot clovers all day long @ 100 yards w/ 10x
Wilson/RRA has to be better?
Link Posted: 3/11/2006 6:49:15 AM EDT
Polygonal rifling:

is a relatively new type of rifling wherein the traditional lands and grooves are replaced instead by "hills and valleys" in a polygonal pattern, usually a hexagon. This has many advantages over the traditional form of rifling, in that it deforms the bullet less while also sealing the gas slightly better, resulting in a slightly higher muzzle velocity in most cases. Because the bullet is less deformed, it provides less surface area for the wind to push against and thus it is more accurate at long range. Also, as a result of the fewer sharp edges pushing against the bullet, the barrel life is extended compared to that of a traditionally rifled barrel.

This type of rifling, however, has drawn criticism from various law enforcement agencies because, unlike the deformations traditional rifling leave on a bullet, deformations left on a bullet by polygonal rifling cannot be used to identify which gun fired the round. As a result, many of these agencies forbid the use of polygonal rifling so that shots fired by the officers may be identified as such.

Another disadvantage to polygonal rifling is that firing lead bullets through the barrel results in an accumulation of lead — a phenomenon known as "leading", that can lead to poor accuracy or even barrel failure.

The most notable manufacturer to create barrels with polygonal rifling is GLOCK, though there are others that manufacture them as well, such as Kahr arms and Heckler and Koch.



Source: Wikipedia

My Vepr has a hammer forged barrel, but it appears to use the same type of rifling as my AR-15.
The Glock has polygonal rifling which makes it look weird when you shine a light through it.
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 1:54:13 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 4:41:54 AM EDT
Noveske barrels-- Does he use PacNor SUPER match blanks, or match blanks?
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 5:18:04 AM EDT
Tagaroni.

Danny
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:26:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/25/2006 6:49:42 AM EDT
Wes, who turns your Kriegers? Do they come with a basic contour from the factory?
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