User Panel
Posted: 3/5/2006 12:30:42 PM EDT
I am wanting to build an 18" to 20" SPR'ish gun to replace my varmint rig. The bull varmint rig is just too heavy, and I can build a cool factor gun with the same accuracy potential. My 20" wilson barrel varmint rig will do .5MOA with my handloads on a very regular basis. I have been very happy with my Wilson barrel, but I dont know if they are all consistently this good.
So - what barrel should I go with to build on? I was looking at the WOA SPR barrels, or ordering a Kreiger. What else is out there? What does the hive mind recommend for pure accuracy? My biggest fear, is special ordering one, and then being slightly dissapointed in the accuracy potential. I want a tack driver. I will be handloading only for this barrel. |
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LILJA if you want pure accuracy! If your looking economical than a WOA turned barrel. Just above that in order, Douglas, Pac Nor and Kreiger....Now this is just my Opinion, I'm sure others will chime in here and give you their thoughts. Ant |
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tag
... and another question to piggyback in this thread: Are there dealers that sell barrels and install them (if you ship them your upper), or do you buy a barrel somewhere, and then ship it elsewhere to have it installed? I don't have a decent vise or a receiver block, and I figure it's cheaper to have someone do it for me than buy all that stuff, and then still screw it up myself |
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Absolutely! There are more and more High Masters with Wilson barrels. |
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My observations of groups posted by users is that Douglas accuracy seems similar to RRA SS barrels. (maybe that's just the shooters but I haven't been "wow-d" by them.) The RRA/Wilson SS 1/8 was more impressive [me shooting my RRA DCM rifle] and I want to say for sure it would be cheaper.
Krieger triple cryoed cut rifled barrels rank high in my book. Rock 5r barrels are up there with them. |
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I think he is trying to say... 1. Lilja 2. Kreiger 3. Pac Nor 4. Douglas 5. WOA (edited) |
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Interesting that anyone would put a button rifle over a Krieger? Also, there is no "white Oak" barrel - those are Wilson barrels. |
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I'm just trying to decipher what he said.... My list is short... 1. Kreiger |
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I would say that there is no real silver bullet out of the barrels mentioned (as they are all quality). It really just comes down to the trigger puller.
With that said, I am huge fan of the Novesked tuned PAC NOR barrels. C4 www.GRTactical.com |
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- on a lathe. There is no "tuning". |
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woops the text was tool small so it looked like someone wrote "tuned" instead of "turned" |
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I have a custom Badger barrel cut by Northern Competition that I would rank with the very best. However, Badger and Northern Competition probably won't rank on any list because they are not in vogue.
Northern Competition |
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There must be different grades of Wilson, as my model 1 Wilson stainless shot like crap compared to my RRA wilson stainless. The WOA groups I've seen look like the RRA. If I had to guess the factory sorted and sold different barrels to different suppliers based on grade.
I think the idea that all the barrels produce the same results is rediculous. I have heard from a custom barrel maker who's opinion is that a Rock 5R will probably only shoot .050inch smaller groups at 100yds than a Pacnor Polygonal, so they may be close, but they still rank seperate to him. Not a big deal at all to a military shooter, but to a bench rest guy that could be winning and losing right there. The contour of the barrel of course will dictate results as well but that is two barrels of equal taper. |
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Wilson makes the blanks. It's entirely possible that the barrels were chambered and crowned by different shops. That said, as a matter of economics, it wouldn't surprise me at all to learn that Wilson sells different grades of barrels. As to the original question, right now if I were to buy a precision barrel on a budget, I would go with something from WOA as offered by many of the vendors here. Stretching finances a little farther to $500 or $600 would probably allow for a cut-rifled barrel, which I'm sure is capable of producing far better accuracy than I (but then again, so is a properly button-rifled barrel). ETA: I personally don't consider a $500 barrel to be "budget" oriented in any sense of the word. |
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voted woa wilson. ive only owned wilsons, and have been pleased. planned on a woa wylde chambered 1/7" 16" ss heavy contour. interested to see if other barrels are worth the $.
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Our of curiosity, are you talking about chrome lined RRA wilson barrels or unchrome lined RRA wilson barrels where they have comparable groupings to the WOA Wilson barrels?
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I imagine, that would be stainless Wilson blanks. |
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Wilson does sell different grades of blanks. WOA uses their match blank, and on a budget one can do no better than one of Johns barrels, they are excellent.
Jason |
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I didnt know Model 1 sold Wilsons. I know they use ER Shaw and Krieger. |
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+1 |
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Wilson are excellent barrels. the "match" grade barrels just air gauged
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I can't see myself buying a Kreiger unless i'm trying to eek out High Master, my WOA barrel just crapped out, and I'm sitting on a pile of cash that has no better use. For the price of a Krieger installed you can almost get a WOA wilson and a Giessel trigger. Or for the difference you can get enought bullets for a busy season. |
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Krieger barrels are not only one of the most accurate (if not the most), but they are also the longest lasting super-match grade barrels. A single point cut will outlast a button pulled & stress relieved barrel. Point-being is that you are getting more than just an accurate barrel for your money.
So, when the question was asked about best quality for the money barrel, I based my answer on overall quality, accuracy, longivity vs. cost of the product. |
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what about SABRE Defense Barrels I know they supply alot for the military
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I'm not commenting on the longevity of a Krieger vs. others, but wouldn't a process that works the metal increase barrel more so than a process that doesn't? Isn't this why CHF barrels are so durable? |
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Thats an interesting question. Their 2006 catalog says they use both cut and button rifling techniques. |
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As mentioned above............... Where are the Oly SUM barrels in the poll?
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Had one back when all they had was 1:10. It was a good barrel.... and I hear they are making 1:8 now.... but I just wont consider Oly products anymore. So they arent in *my* poll. |
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I assume that you are referring to the work hardening of the steel. The rifling in a button barrel is not work hardend, but stressed -- as in stress cracks kind of stress. So much so, that after being rifled, the barrel must be heated and stress relieved. So, any possible benefit that may have resulted from the button pull, has been removed. Here is what they ram through a button pulled bore: Here is some really good reading about barrels: Barrel Manufacture Processes |
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How do polygonal rifled barrels fit into the discussion of accurate barrels for the money?
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FALARAK let us know how it turns out?
For the money Im going to get a wilson and buy extra stuff with the savings! I have a BushwackerA1 rack grade 20hbar that shot clovers all day long @ 100 yards w/ 10x Wilson/RRA has to be better? |
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Polygonal rifling:
Source: Wikipedia My Vepr has a hammer forged barrel, but it appears to use the same type of rifling as my AR-15. The Glock has polygonal rifling which makes it look weird when you shine a light through it. |
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I forget what Kreiger charges for a finished barrel, but I charge $475 for a finished out Krieger barrel in any length/profile etc... Kreiger only has a couple profiles, but I don't have those same limitations as I am buying a rough profiled blank and doing the final profiling and chambering myself. |
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Noveske barrels-- Does he use PacNor SUPER match blanks, or match blanks?
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THE BARRELMAKER IS ONLY HALF OF THE BARREL EQUATION. WHO TURNS THE BARREL OUT IS THE OTHER HALF.
WE'VE HAD SUPERB RESULTS WITH LILJA, DOUGLAS AND KRIEGER TURNED BY COMPASS LAKE. MORE RECENTLY, WE'VE ADDED JOHN NOVESKE'S POLYGONAL S/S PAC-NOR BARRELS TO OUR LINE UP; THE RESULTS WE GET WITH THEM ARE MOST IMPRESSIVE, AS WELL. JUST GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT, IN THE PROFILE YOU WANT, THE FIRST TIME. YOU'LL FORGET ABOUT THE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE WHEN YOU CHECK YOUR GROUP SIZE. WES GRANT M.S.T.N. |
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Wes, who turns your Kriegers? Do they come with a basic contour from the factory?
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