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Posted: 2/5/2006 8:22:36 AM EDT
I'm not sure this post goes here, or in Optics... so forgive me if it's not right. Could not find anything with the search either. Tnx! ;-)

I got a RAS II, bought as one of those Afcom specials a couple years back, it was 275 including VHG, 3 std. panels and a short panel.
I finally found a use for it, and mounted on a 16" M4gery. I use a Aimpont M2 mounted on the "hump" with an ARMS mount.

The problem is, the RAS II does not reliably keep zero: it seems like the fasting on the upper is not secure enough to keep the whole RAS from moving (I can easily check this by cowitnessing with the iron sights the position of the dot... it shifts!).

On a range, and gently used, the RAS II does not move, in a class scenario, with the VHG and fast rough movement it easily knocks off zero. And, yes, I routinely tighten both the hex screw on the top rail and the cross screw that fastens the RAS to the flat top upper.

Would I be better off with a FF RAS? Is there any way I can save the situation?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:27:39 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:26:07 AM EDT
Hi,
yes, I'm sure it is properly seated, the fact is that the shift is about 4-6 inches at 100 meters, at 25 yards it is almost unnoticeable, BUT it does shift.... if you have a aimpoint, pop up your BUIS and try this: while aiming at a distant target and keeping your barrel on a rest (yes the BARREL) try moving the RAS sideways, youll see that the red dot actually shifts a bit off the aiming line of the iron sights... in a FF RAS, the one that you have to remove the original barrel nut to install, when you remove pressure to the side of the RAS itself, the dot shifts back where it was, with the RAS II it does NOT.

So now im really concerned... I just remembered I got it from Pete (Legal Transfers), it was a great deal at the time.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:28:26 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:09:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 2:20:33 AM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
what kind of upper is it on?



An Olympic. It does look in spec though. And the shift is only noticeable thru the optics, the platform feels rock solid in your hand. It is enough, OTOH, to make you miss a bottle at 100 meters, and that BUGS me.
BTW, placing the M2 on the FT behind the "hump", I get 1/2 MOA groups.

Maybe I should replace the upper with something better?
Or better yet, replace with FF RAS? I like accuracy...

I'm losing faith in the RAS II as a stable platform.

And, Grant, as for the "great deal" yes I believe you're right! There must be a reason why KAC sold these waaayy lower than list, I think I found out why!

franco
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:47:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:52:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:23:13 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 6:26:27 AM EDT by new-arguy]
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:28:02 AM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
Ive had a RAS II on a Bushmaster upper ever since it came out. The gun its on is used quite frequently. I think it is unlikely the rail itself is whats giving you a problem. The RAS II is a package deal, not because it is junk. If you are up for it, I would try to replace the upper with something a little nicer. Maybe CMT or LMT? I would suspect that would solve the problem as I believe your Oly lower upper is the weak link, not the RAS II.



Ditto comments above, but my KAC RAS II is mounted to a LMT upper and BTW, the Aimpoint setting on it hasn't been re-zero'd in years.....

Mike
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:30:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 6:31:00 AM EDT by SHIVAN]
What ARMS mount is the Aimpoint in? I'd suspect the mount before a properly installed RAS II.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 6:44:17 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:03:43 AM EDT
I've had great luck with my RAS II. I used it in several classes including a 3 day BW course and it's held zero since I mounted my aimpoint (LaRue mount). I would think it's the Arms mount.....never liked them.

Bomber....goood luck!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:09:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
What ARMS mount is the Aimpoint in? I'd suspect the mount before a properly installed RAS II.



Spoken like a true LaRue lover and ARMs product basher........

Too insensate to know that the #22M68 is most likely choice for this appication, the most preferred "choice" in the military and one which rarely causes any problems that aren't a result of someone mis-assembling it.

All my Aimpoints are mounted in ARMS #22M68s and I've never had any issues with any of 'em.

(but then I ain't got my nose stuck up LaRue's butt either)

Mike
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:17:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 7:17:54 AM EDT by SHIVAN]

Originally Posted By mr_wilson:

Originally Posted By SHIVAN:
What ARMS mount is the Aimpoint in? I'd suspect the mount before a properly installed RAS II.



Spoken like a true LaRue lover and ARMs product basher........

(but then I ain't got my nose stuck up LaRue's butt either)



Uh, or maybe someone who is giving the person another angle to investigate....

I suppose you've never seen a worn "shoe" on an ARMS mount?

I have, so have lots of others. Including people who run all ARMS gear.

I'm not bashing anything. So go back under your rock.

I've got two RAS II's on two different uppers. When properly installed, that hump is going to be repeatable for zero. Period.

Therefore I highlighted two areas of concern. The mount and a PROPER installation of the RAS II.

Since he is convinced his RAS is installed properly. I would suspect the mount.

BTW, where the fuck did I ever mention LaRue??
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:34:47 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:01:00 AM EDT

Originally Posted By thebomber:
I've had great luck with my RAS II. I used it in several classes including a 3 day BW course and it's held zero since I mounted my aimpoint (LaRue mount). I would think it's the Arms mount.....never liked them.

Bomber....goood luck!




Actually Mr Wilson's comment should have been directed at me. I'm the one who mention LaRue and who indicated I didn't like the ARMs mount.


For the record, I've owned both and frankly speaking, I find all of ARMS produts to be over rated (IMHO).

Bomber
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 8:58:11 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 9:00:28 AM EDT by pizzigr1]

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
One quick thing to check, make sure the small fastening plate on the hump of the RAS II is flush with the reciever, and installed the right way. If you installed it backwards, its possible it isnt allowing the mount to secure flush with the reciever. Short of that, Ive had a RAS II on a Bushmaster upper ever since it came out. The gun its on is used quite frequently. I think it is unlikely the rail itself is whats giving you a problem. The RAS II is a package deal, not because it is junk. If you are up for it, I would try to replace the upper with something a little nicer. Maybe CMT or LMT? I would suspect that would solve the problem as I believe your Oly lower is the weak link, not the RAS II.



Which "small fastening plate"...? You mean the two plates secured by a threaded crossbolt?
If that is what you mean then maybe that's what is causing the problem!!!!!!

I disassembled the RAS today, and this is what I found out: one of these "plates" is actually crooked, it did not fail, it is a factory defect: somehow it was mechined off-center. Here's a few pics to show what I mean:
http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/9471/12fw.jpg
http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/3074/24ls2.jpg
http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/5158/31iu.jpg
http://img320.imageshack.us/img320/4159/43dv.jpg
so the culprit is Knights Armament after all! Or at least I think, that does not seem right at all.
How can I find a replacemet? Is anybody attending the Shot Show in Vegas, maybe we can meet up and I can purchase a spare "plate" from someone???
thanks to every body!!!

Franco
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:01:34 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 9:24:23 AM EDT

Originally Posted By pizzigr1:
]img320.imageshack.us/img320/4159/43dv.jpg



Yep, that would certainly result in an improperly installed RAS II. Not your fault, of course, but without the ability to install it correctly will change your POI.

Call KAC, and ask for a new plate.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:10:24 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By pizzigr1:

Originally Posted By new-arguy:
One quick thing to check, make sure the small fastening plate on the hump of the RAS II is flush with the reciever, and installed the right way. If you installed it backwards, its possible it isnt allowing the mount to secure flush with the reciever. Short of that, Ive had a RAS II on a Bushmaster upper ever since it came out. The gun its on is used quite frequently. I think it is unlikely the rail itself is whats giving you a problem. The RAS II is a package deal, not because it is junk. If you are up for it, I would try to replace the upper with something a little nicer. Maybe CMT or LMT? I would suspect that would solve the problem as I believe your Oly lower is the weak link, not the RAS II.



Which "small fastening plate"...? You mean the two plates secured by a threaded crossbolt?
If that is what you mean then maybe that's what is causing the problem!!!!!!

I disassembled the RAS today, and this is what I found out: one of these "plates" is actually crooked, it did not fail, it is a factory defect: somehow it was mechined off-center. Here's a few pics to show what I mean:
img320.imageshack.us/img320/9471/12fw.jpg</a>
img320.imageshack.us/img320/3074/24ls2.jpg</a>
img320.imageshack.us/img320/5158/31iu.jpg</a>
img320.imageshack.us/img320/4159/43dv.jpg</a>
so the culprit is Knights Armament after all! Or at least I think, that does not seem right at all.
How can I find a replacemet? Is anybody attending the Shot Show in Vegas, maybe we can meet up and I can purchase a spare "plate" from someone???
thanks to every body!!!

Franco




Just call KAC and ask for replacement. I doubt they will have any small parts at the SS.


C4



Just did that. They will NOT sell to the public, and going at their booth at the SS is NOT going to help, rep said. Doubt Pete will make things right, couplke years have passed anyway and I kept too long - yes I did inspect it but overlooked a small detail such as thae plates- and rep said they will not honour any warrantee or repair or even sale of spare parts other than to authorized distributors & dealers. Pete is NOT, so warranty does not applyt to me! So I'm stranded!!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:40:44 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:45:39 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:


Just did that. They will NOT sell to the public, and going at their booth at the SS is NOT going to help, rep said. Doubt Pete will make things right, couplke years have passed anyway and I kept too long - yes I did inspect it but overlooked a small detail such as thae plates- and rep said they will not honour any warrantee or repair or even sale of spare parts other than to authorized distributors & dealers. Pete is NOT, so warranty does not applyt to me! So I'm stranded!!



I will make someone aware of your problem and see if they can help.


C4



Thank you, I do appreciate any help!
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 10:52:30 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 11:05:22 AM EDT
we need more people like you C4iGrant here in Italy
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:54:26 AM EDT
Please send me you mailing address and i will send you a new bolt, clamp, and nut for your RAS II.
I just spoke with the guys in Sales and they misunderstood your call to them.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 10:56:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:01:32 AM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:

Originally Posted By coldblue:
Please send me you mailing address and i will send you a new bolt, clamp, and nut for your RAS II.
I just spoke with the guys in Sales and they misunderstood your call to them.



Thaks CB.


C4


That is a big reason why I like KAC.
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 11:38:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/7/2006 11:45:48 AM EDT by bigsapper]
I had a KAC RAS II on my Colt MT6400C. It was absolutely rock-solid. (I no longer have it)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was there a mounting part that was purposely off-center? I seem to recall the instructions stating to make sure it's mounted correctly.

ETA: ...


Note: the Pass-Through Clamp & Nut have off-center holes. Their rear edges are flush with the
rear of the Upper Rail Assembly when orientated properly.



From PDF file instructions...
www.quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/rasii22243inst.pdf
Link Posted: 2/7/2006 12:38:31 PM EDT

Originally Posted By coldblue:
Please send me you mailing address and i will send you a new bolt, clamp, and nut for your RAS II.
I just spoke with the guys in Sales and they misunderstood your call to them.



WOOOHOOO
Coldblue, that's GREAT!
I'll email you NOW!

and I wish to thank everyone here at AR15.com......
this is the place to get help, if you own a black rifle!

franco

Link Posted: 2/8/2006 3:20:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By bigsapper:
I had a KAC RAS II on my Colt MT6400C. It was absolutely rock-solid. (I no longer have it)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but was there a mounting part that was purposely off-center? I seem to recall the instructions stating to make sure it's mounted correctly.

ETA: ...


Note: the Pass-Through Clamp & Nut have off-center holes. Their rear edges are flush with the
rear of the Upper Rail Assembly when orientated properly.



From PDF file instructions...
www.quarterbore.com/library/pdf_files/rasii22243inst.pdf



Let me thank Quarterbore once again for posting our (KAC) instructions where everyone can benefit from them.
This story of buying a second-hand part and then having some problems is all too common. (Same as when we sometimes ship a part without the instructons) Rarely (if ever) are the original instructions included in the transaction. I went back to check the machine set-up of how we hold the RAS II nut when the treading is done, and in my opinion it is just aout impossile for it to be drilled and tapped at anything other than a right angle. So perhaps the original owner was not paying attention and cross-threaded the nut while it was 180 degrees off from its correct orientation.
If any of you optain one of our products without the factory instructions, please call me at (321-607-9900) or e-mail me at dlutz@knightarmco.com and I will walk you through it. As I have written near all our instruction sheets and have them right on my computer, I think I'l have the knowledge to help. Of course you can check Quarterbore's site and even ours (knightarmco.com) where the instructions reside as well.
Link Posted: 2/15/2006 5:48:09 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/15/2006 5:57:23 AM EDT by pizzigr1]
Mr. Lutz,
we nearly missed each other at the SS!
I did not know it was you, otherwise I'd given you the original nut in person!
I believe the nut has been drilled in the factory at that angle, actually I even have an idea how that happened, because there is a mark on the side of the nut that I believe is from the "clamping" vise that holds the part for drilling and tapping, that in fact is 90° to the actual threading: probably the nut was not properly seated during this machining step; 1 in a 1000000 chance and I got it... I'd love this kind of luck when I play lottery.
The mark is pretty visible in the posted pics, in the third from the top.

I can send you the nut if you want!


edited to add:
and BTW, the RAS II was brand new in the wrapper, which was inside a white box.
I broke the seal myself
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