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Posted: 2/4/2006 9:39:45 PM EDT
was at a show last weekend and saw some Sun Devil AR lowers on a table for $125, looked real good but are they worth the $ when I can buy a RRA or other for a little more?
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 11:25:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By spaceghost:
was at a show last weekend and saw some Sun Devil AR lowers on a table for $125, looked real good but are they worth the $ when I can buy a RRA or other for a little more?



You saw them in NY? I cant even find them here where they are made unless its a different Sun Devil manufacturing company. Supposedly they are made out of billet.

Does the person who had them have a website?
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:05:13 AM EDT
don't know about a websight but I'm sure theres only one sun devil. It was at the greensboro ,NC show last weekend!I like how they look,!
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 6:51:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 6:52:32 AM EDT by stiles]
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:04:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 7:05:31 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:32:30 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I've been told that theoretically forged lowers are stronger.



Please explain.

I saw some of these at the Raleigh show two weeks ago or whenever it was. They were nice looking, but they were 25 bucks more. Sharp edges, but cleaner lines was something I noticed.

I really would like to know how a forging makes it stronger, please.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 10:45:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Gimme_A_Carbine:


I really would like to know how a forging makes it stronger, please.



Grain Structure... or that is the argument at least.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:50:52 AM EDT
When a foundry makes alum barstock the material goes though a series of rollers as the material cools which leaves the stock with very good grain structure.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 11:56:48 AM EDT
Thanks for clearing that up guys.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:03:31 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 12:03:56 PM EDT by txgp17]
I think the money is better spent on higher quality components like a better barrel or bolt. But that's just my opinion. I'm not knocking the idea of a machined lower, I'd love to have one, I just think the Forged ones are more than adequate.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 12:35:29 PM EDT
I've always been told billet is the way to go, but my past experience doesn't come from firearms so I don't know if it's valid here. But I've always been told billet will get you the most consistent and pure raw metal.

I got a sun devil recently and it's pretty nice. I don't know if it's worth the extra money over a CMT but being in Ca I didn't have much of a choice.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 1:48:27 PM EDT
Most of the billet lowers I have seen are only 6061 T6. Most forged ones are 7075 T6. There is a difference in properties of these two alloys. The only billet lower I have seen made out a material close to 7075 T6 is the new run of Socom lowers that I was told were made of Fortal aluminum.
Matweb is a good site to look up material properties.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 3:12:09 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/5/2006 3:13:59 PM EDT by LesBaer45]

Originally Posted By Gimme_A_Carbine:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
I've been told that theoretically forged lowers are stronger.



Please explain.

I saw some of these at the Raleigh show two weeks ago or whenever it was. They were nice looking, but they were 25 bucks more. Sharp edges, but cleaner lines was something I noticed.

I really would like to know how a forging makes it stronger, please.



Yeah I saw those there too. Guy selling was out of Jacksonville. I thought they were $145 stripped.
They seemed very well made to me. Almost felt slighty heavier but I didn't have another manufacturer lower to compare it with.

I thought about it, but decided to wait for some feedback from users. Might be interesting if they made a matching upper.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 7:05:13 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:
Most of the billet lowers I have seen are only 6061 T6. Most forged ones are 7075 T6. There is a difference in properties of these two alloys. The only billet lower I have seen made out a material close to 7075 T6 is the new run of Socom lowers that I was told were made of Fortal aluminum.
Matweb is a good site to look up material properties.



Good find on material properties. Do you know who carries the SOCOM lowers? I'd like to be able to get one of those brought in. I've been wanting one ever since I saw a pic over a year ago. They look built to take anything.
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 8:19:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:
Most of the billet lowers I have seen are only 6061 T6. Most forged ones are 7075 T6. There is a difference in properties of these two alloys.



Yea 7075 is far more susceptible to stress corrosion cracking than 6061 is
Link Posted: 2/5/2006 9:22:01 PM EDT
Now I'm all for better materials. But has that been an issue with AR's? Cracking receivers of 6061 T6 aluminum due to stress? Of course stronger is always better, I'm just wondering if it's one of those things to be worried about in the long term.
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 2:10:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 4:04:05 PM EDT by j3_]

Yea 7075 is far more susceptible to stress corrosion cracking than 6061 is


Guess thats why the Gov. uses the 7075 So their guns will crack. Or maybe they use it so the holes will stay round after a lot of use.


Do you know who carries the SOCOM lowers?

The dealer is getting out of the buisness and I heard he had sold the new run to someone but I do not know who. I bought mine from him a couple of months ago when they were made. I got a single digit number lower. I bought it in the white and sent it to Techplate and had it hardcoat anodized
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 7:44:36 AM EDT

Originally Posted By j3_:
Guess thats why the Gov. uses the 7075 So their guns will crack. Or maybe they use it so the holes will stay round after a lot of use.



So your saying there is enough strain in an AR lower to approach the yeild strength of either alloy? Now if this is true and you have a corrosive environment (ammonia based solvents?) then you would also have a condition where stress corrosion cracking could be a concern. But since there is no stress to speak of and the lowers are anodized there is no problem. That being said how many 6061 T6 lowers have you seen have out of round holes from "a lot of use"?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:05:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/6/2006 3:05:45 PM EDT by j3_]
I have only seen one post that pin hole problems were mentioned in a 6061 billet lower. The lower that the post was about was a different maufacturer. But Again why would I buy a lower made of a material that I do not consider equal to the 7075 T6 when no other benifits are offered?
Link Posted: 2/6/2006 3:58:30 PM EDT
I can't speak for you but the only reason I would buy a 6061 billet lower is fit and finish and only if the cost was reasonable. So I'm really not interested in buying one, but I would like to see one. That being said I just don't see any real disadvantage of the lower yield strength if we are talking about a lower receiver. Now if we were talking about the upper receiver I would have some reservations similar to yours.
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