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Posted: 2/3/2006 10:13:04 AM EDT
Heres another noob trying to gain some info prior to making his first buy...so please bare with me!have

Thanks for the help!
Diesel
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:08:23 AM EDT
Most info is just from the website as the only person that I know of that has seen one in person is SMGLee in a thread here a while back.

And I don't think you can get one as I don't think they are producing them yet.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:10:44 AM EDT
Ok...well i guess the waiting game starts then! Thanks for the info
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 11:17:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 11:20:55 AM EDT by mattld]

Originally Posted By AR_DIESEL:
Ok...well i guess the waiting game starts then! Thanks for the info


If you want a piston gun, check out the various piston AR manufacturers (POF, LW, etc). The XCR, IMO, is not all that great, especially since apparently, if you want the buttstock, you have to add $150.00 to the $1300 base price.

And I don't know if it will ever acept collapsible stocks, an adaptor would have to be made by someone. And there really isn't any hype to it.

And what do you mean by "Why is it better than what is currently available"?

Try searching this site and Google for Robinson XCR or just XCR and see what you get.

Did it for you.

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=260089

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=433213

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=263741

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=431421

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=118&t=244906
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 12:09:28 PM EDT
WOW...those just created even more questions!
Bare with me again! hatI really like the POF's but the site wasnt clear on their prices and what you get...$975 for just the upper...or the whole thing?
And if i decide to go with an AR, am i better off building one to my specs or buying one straight up?

Sorry, i obviously have very little knowledge on this...but im trying! Diesel
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 3:49:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR_DIESEL:
WOW...those just created even more questions!
Bare with me again!

So what is a piston gun and how does it differ from an AR?
I really like the POF's but the site wasnt clear on their prices and what you get...$975 for just the upper...or the whole thing?
And if i decide to go with an AR, am i better off building one to my specs or buying one straight up?

Sorry, i obviously have very little knowledge on this...but im trying!

Diesel


You're lucky I have nothing else to do today.

Most people (myself included) normally tell new posters to read the FAQ and use the search button but this time I thought I'd lend a helping hand.

A regular AR15 uses a direct gas-impingement system. When the gun fires, gas behind the bullet is normally siphoned from a hole under the front sight base. That gas travels back down the gas tube and hits the gas key on the bolt carrier, driving it back and cycling the gun. This leads to a dirty weapon over time as the gas goes back into the receiver.

A gas piston AR15 uses a piston and operating rod to operate the action. When the gun fires, gas behind the bullet is once again siphoned from a hole under the front sight base. But this time, the gas goes through a piston and hits an operating rod which is directly connected to (or contacts) the bolt carrier where the gas normally would. This keeps the gun considerably cleaner as no gas (or very little) goes back inside the receiver.

And yes, the POF gas piston uppers are $975 or whatever was posted on their website. But all told, that is a pretty fair price considering the extra parts and engineering that goes into the gas piston, plus the model you probably looked at had a Predator Rail System on it instead of regular plastic handguards, and that raises the price.

As for how to go about getting a gun, if this is your first (and I assume it is), I would get one "straight up" as you say instead of building one. But, if you want to get a complete upper somewhere and a complete lower somewhere else, that would work too, as all you would have to do is push them together. I would wait until I had some "time behind the wheel" so to speak before I would consider building on from a parts kit.

No problem on the questions, better to ask and get it right than stay silent and screw something up.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 4:53:38 PM EDT
Well im glad that i can benefit from your bordemhis
Is accuracy affected any by a piston system, good or bad?
Which of the two would you recommend?

I really do appreciate your helpfullness and not telling me to "search" it.
Its alot easier to get the answers you want when you can ask the questions and dont have to find emhanksDiesel
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:13:36 PM EDT
First off-

WELCOME to ArfCom

Check this out too-

www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=433213
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 6:39:48 PM EDT
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 7:44:53 PM EDT
Welcome as well. I've owned 11+ AR's. A (Colt) SP1, SP1 carbine, Colt 20" HBar, Colt MT6400, Bushy AK Carbine, Bushy CAR-type w/A2 FS, Olympic XM-177E2 copy, DPMS "M4gery" among others. I now have a DSA GTC ZM4, which is a POF gas piston upper attached to a DSA lower. I'll never own a standard AR-style platfrom again. The POF does not compromise accuaracy and cleaning is just wiping the bolt face, gas piston and op rod. No more scrubbing carbon off the bolt, more reliable, etc... Try one, they don't have a 2 to 4 month waiting list because they suck...

My $.02,

TS
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:27:32 PM EDT

Originally Posted By TigerStripe:
Welcome as well. I've owned 11+ AR's. A (Colt) SP1, SP1 carbine, Colt 20" HBar, Colt MT6400, Bushy AK Carbine, Bushy CAR-type w/A2 FS, Olympic XM-177E2 copy, DPMS "M4gery" among others. I now have a DSA GTC ZM4, which is a POF gas piston upper attached to a DSA lower. I'll never own a standard AR-style platfrom again. The POF does not compromise accuaracy and cleaning is just wiping the bolt face, gas piston and op rod. No more scrubbing carbon off the bolt, more reliable, etc... Try one, they don't have a 2 to 4 month waiting list because they suck...

My $.02,

TS



I'm trying to understand why someone would suck because they have a waiting list. LaRue Tactical is a great example of someone who can't keep up with the demand for his products, and not because they suck. There are advantages and disadvantages to going with a Leitner-Wise piston setup vs. a POF setup, but I don't think either of them suck, although both limit your options for handguards and such.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:31:24 PM EDT

Originally Posted By AR_DIESEL:
Well im glad that i can benefit from your bordem

Basically i want to do this right the first time, so i want to get something high quality and really cool and not have to spend alot upgrading it right away! I have a bad habit of wanting to upgrade things right when i get them, before i even have a chance to get tired of them.

Is accuracy affected any by a piston system, good or bad?
Which of the two would you recommend?

I really do appreciate your helpfullness and not telling me to "search" it.
Its alot easier to get the answers you want when you can ask the questions and dont have to find em

Thanks again
Diesel


As posted above, the accuracy is not impacted in any major way by a gas-piston in place of the direct gas-impingment. And for that matter, since the XCR is a gas-piston rifle as well, choosing either one won't matter.

If I were you and just starting out, here's what I'd do. I'd get a name-brand complete AR (probably 16") with an A3 upper and chrome-lined barrel and go from there. In my opinion, any AR is more adaptable over the XCR as it stands, since know one knows what, if any, accessories will be available for the XCR when (or if) it comes out.

That would be the simplest route. If that does not float your boat and you are dead set on a gas-piston AR15, I would check out POF and Leitner-Wise. Both make great gas-piston uppers for the AR15 platform.

But as always, your mileage may vary.
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 9:53:55 PM EDT
I think he was saying that if they sucked they wouldn't have a two month wating list.



Originally Posted By bolster:

Originally Posted By TigerStripe:
Welcome as well. I've owned 11+ AR's. A (Colt) SP1, SP1 carbine, Colt 20" HBar, Colt MT6400, Bushy AK Carbine, Bushy CAR-type w/A2 FS, Olympic XM-177E2 copy, DPMS "M4gery" among others. I now have a DSA GTC ZM4, which is a POF gas piston upper attached to a DSA lower. I'll never own a standard AR-style platfrom again. The POF does not compromise accuaracy and cleaning is just wiping the bolt face, gas piston and op rod. No more scrubbing carbon off the bolt, more reliable, etc... Try one, they don't have a 2 to 4 month waiting list because they suck...

My $.02,

TS



I'm trying to understand why someone would suck because they have a waiting list. LaRue Tactical is a great example of someone who can't keep up with the demand for his products, and not because they suck. There are advantages and disadvantages to going with a Leitner-Wise piston setup vs. a POF setup, but I don't think either of them suck, although both limit your options for handguards and such.

Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:19:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/3/2006 10:20:48 PM EDT by TigerStripe]

Originally Posted By bolster:

Originally Posted By TigerStripe:
Welcome as well. I've owned 11+ AR's. A (Colt) SP1, SP1 carbine, Colt 20" HBar, Colt MT6400, Bushy AK Carbine, Bushy CAR-type w/A2 FS, Olympic XM-177E2 copy, DPMS "M4gery" among others. I now have a DSA GTC ZM4, which is a POF gas piston upper attached to a DSA lower. I'll never own a standard AR-style platfrom again. The POF does not compromise accuaracy and cleaning is just wiping the bolt face, gas piston and op rod. No more scrubbing carbon off the bolt, more reliable, etc... Try one, they don't have a 2 to 4 month waiting list because they suck...

My $.02,

TS



I'm trying to understand why someone would suck because they have a waiting list. LaRue Tactical is a great example of someone who can't keep up with the demand for his products, and not because they suck. There are advantages and disadvantages to going with a Leitner-Wise piston setup vs. a POF setup, but I don't think either of them suck, although both limit your options for handguards and such.



i.e. They have one because they don't suck. Sorry for the miss understanding. POF is a great company with great customer service. They answer my dumb questions...

TS
Link Posted: 2/3/2006 10:33:38 PM EDT
Ahh. All clear now.

Back to thread's topic. I am anxious to see how the XCR does upon release. I'll probably buy one if they work well.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 7:20:18 AM EDT
If POF would come out with a light weight barrel then I wouldn't even be looking at the XCR, but they have yet to come out with one and that is why I have an XCR on order. If there is one thing I cannot stand, it is an HBAR carbine. As for accessories lacking on the XCR, the only one I am concerned may not show up is an adapter to put a collapsible stock on it. I will try the one I have for the M96 to see if that fits. Match triggers have no place on a HD/combat carbine and 20" barrels are for .308 IMHO. Every thing else that can be attached to a rail such as BUIS, optics, NV, tac lights, and VFG's should bolt right on to the XCR.
Link Posted: 2/4/2006 9:04:57 AM EDT
SMGLee had a picture in his thread of an XCR with a M4 stock beside it. I read that the XCR is suppose to have a stock adapter available sometime. I guess we need the rifle first, then we can worry about the adapter.
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