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Posted: 1/29/2006 7:36:07 AM EDT
Did a search, didn't find alot. I'm wanting to get involved in the local 3 gun matches. What I would like is some ideas and pictures of your 3 gun AR's. I've been reading some of the rules and regs but any links to more rules would be great as well.

I'm thinking:

16.1" Krieger Recon barrel
DD 12.0 forend
ACOG TA31 RCOm4
Chip McCormich single stage curved trigger (is it worth the money?)
LMT SOPMOD Stock
Harris BiPod

So again, any help and pics would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks guys
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:04:15 AM EDT
Probably the biggest factor you need to look at before you start spec'ing stuff out is what kind of ranges you're looking at. Some clubs that dont have access to rifle range facilities shoot rifle stages just like pistol stages but maybe with some minature steel targets and lots of hard cover and no shoots around the paper. In that instance a dot sight, short barrel, light weight gun (like you're talking about) is perfect. Some might even opine that a pistol caliber AR or a mech-tech pistol conversion rifle is the ideal gun. If your club has access to long rifle ranges (150 plus yards) you're going to be more interested in a 18/20 inch gun that will fire heavier bullets, with an optic with some magnification.

At most matches the bipod will put you into open class...so unless your willing to put a second optic on the rifle (dot and magnifying scope), and finish out your kit with an open shotgun and open pistol, you're probably better off shooting tactical/limited so you'd better make sure the bipod can be removed easily prior to the match.

The trick way to go is to travel to the match with 2 uppers/guns. Take a look at the stages that are set up. If it all hoser stages you pull out the 16 inch with the dot sight, if there's some long shots you mount the 20 inch gun with the scope.
Link Posted: 1/29/2006 9:40:48 AM EDT
If your just getting into it I wouldn't worry too much about what you're runnin' as long as you know your gun(s) and are competent with them....
Gear doesn't make for a good score...
I've seen guys shootin' plain Jane iron sight SKS's out do those sportin' big $$ tricked out AR's....

I get a little pleasure from listening to a shooter list/brag about all the name brand mods and doo-dads on his fancy AR and then witnessing the same guy pooch a stage 'cause his gun goes FA, his battery dies or something breaks...
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 6:19:42 AM EDT
I'm not a 3 gun expert and I am looking at getting into it myself and I'm looking at building a 3 gun upper here pretty soon.

Well check out this thread for pictures and you may want to ask your question on Brian Enos' 3 gun rifle forum.

I would say away from the DD forearm w/ teeth. Almost nobody uses a vertical foregrip, bipods are a non-issue unless you shoot in open and other typical AR accessories that are hung off of these rail systems are not used. The new JP free float tube is bad ass, you can put sling swivel studs or rail sections where you need them and you are not limited to only 12, 3, 6, 9 o'clock positions you can also put them at 1:30, 4:30, 7:30 and 10:30. The other popular forearm is the PRI carbon fiber freefloat tube.

Popular compensators for limited/tactical are:

F2
Bennie Cooley
Benny Hill's rolling thunder
MSTN QC Brake

for open the JP tank break is very effective.

Most people are shooting a middle weight profile 17-18" barrel with a rifle length gas system. Quite a few people are picking up HBAR barrels and having them turned down to .750” under the hand guards and cut to 18” in length. You really don't have to get a $500 barrel to be competitive but if you want one it's all good.

JP is the most popular trigger setup, it's hard to go wrong with a properly set up JP. The CMC has a history of problems, first was bad springs, and now CMC isn't shipping new product because they have had out of tolerance parts from their EDM contractor. I just don't like the lock box approach, gotta send them back to replace the springs but that's my prejudice.

ACOG's are popular, but most seem to run the 3.5x ones. The 1-4x variables are pretty popular too. The Meopta 1-4x w/ the K-dot reticle has been getting a lot of interest lately. To be honest optics are all over the place in tactical and open you'll see everything from the ACOG's and high end 1-4x variables to the Benny Hill specials.

BTW MSTN builds lots of 3 gun AR's so if your looking to have some one set up an upper for you.

3 gun AR's are so much different than what you see here, you never see light weight bolt carriers and buffers w/ adjustable gas blocks to make a faster lighter cycling gun but that's common place with the 3 gun AR's.

Best thing is go do a club and take see what people are using, you'll probably get some trigger time too and that will be the best test to see what you like no doubt.
Link Posted: 1/30/2006 10:45:47 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 8:05:50 AM EDT
choice of gear depends a lot on what you want to get out of the competition. if you just want to win, building up a "gamer" rifle is the way to go.
if you keep an AR for self-defense, and want to get some training benefit out of matches, just shoot your stock AR. you shouldn't build a gun just for 3gun unless you plan on really getting into it and being competitive. i have 6 AR's and i use whatever one strikes my mood that day. i shoot at least 2 local matches a month and 4-6 major matches across the country every year. but i'm not very competitive, i just try to improve my shooting skills (and beat Sinistral_Rifleman!!!)

as a disclaimer: the above attitude is very rarely encountered in 3gun in my experience, but that's changing too...
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:19:53 AM EDT

Originally Posted By 62nd_Assassin:
choice of gear depends a lot on what you want to get out of the competition. if you just want to win, building up a "gamer" rifle is the way to go.
if you keep an AR for self-defense, and want to get some training benefit out of matches, just shoot your stock AR. you shouldn't build a gun just for 3gun unless you plan on really getting into it and being competitive. i have 6 AR's and i use whatever one strikes my mood that day. i shoot at least 2 local matches a month and 4-6 major matches across the country every year. but i'm not very competitive, i just try to improve my shooting skills (and beat Sinistral_Rifleman!!!)

as a disclaimer: the above attitude is very rarely encountered in 3gun in my experience, but that's changing too...



That's how I've always rolled. I don't currently have that many working ARs, but my ARs used in 3gun are by no means race guns. They are more .mil type and I use the competition more of a means to get more proficient/see where my problems are.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:28:02 AM EDT
My local club only has a short 80 meter range, so on the days we run steel all the way out to 80m I use a compact ACOG on a 16" upper. On winter days where the ground is wet or it is raining and you don't want to take a knee for the longer shots, we move the plates in to about 40m or 50m. For those matches I use my KittyKat with AimPoint. Some poeple think I am crazy but the SBR is great for the CQB no shoot around paper targets and still has enough velocity to knock down the steel plates. Our club doesn't allow bipods but you can use cover any way you wish to your advantage.

MadDog
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 10:46:33 AM EDT
Do Not be in a rush to go out and spend your hard earned money on gear until you have at least a half dozen matches at at least 2 or more clubs under your belt.
Talk to the shooters , check out their gear and see where in the sport you want to play.
There are 3 differnet USPSA rifle classes and if you start shooting "tactical" 3 gun it only expands gear wise.

Slow down and go learn first. Good Luck
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:16:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 12:16:34 PM EDT by Zak-Smith]


Most people are shooting a middle weight profile 17-18" barrel with a rifle length gas system.

JP is the most popular trigger setup, it's hard to go wrong with a properly set up

ACOG's are popular, but most seem to run the 3.5x ones

MSTN builds lots of 3 gun AR's so if your looking to have some one set up an upper for you.

17" to 18" medium weight barrel with a rifle length gas system as it has smoother cycling than a 16" mid length setup.
Put an MSTN QC comp on the front and it really will sit still for you.
No need for a quad railed forend, go with a PRI competition model or a JP.
You can add short rails to either one just where you need them.


I seem to remember we covered all this back in NOV 2004.
Pair of new MSTN 17" lightweight uppers (PICS)


[ link to LARGER image ]

Link Posted: 1/31/2006 12:23:37 PM EDT

Originally Posted By stiles:
3 gun AR's are so much different than what you see here, you never see light weight bolt carriers and buffers w/ adjustable gas blocks to make a faster


The AR15 crowd has a historic and ingrained preference for heavy carriers and heavy bolt carriers, usually to mask fundamental reliability problems with their upper builds or mags.

All my AR's run a regular carbine buffer, and I am running the Y.M. lightweight carrier in my 14.5 Noveske "SRECCE" as well as my 17" 3Gun rifle.

-z
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:08:07 PM EDT
Alright, looks like I have more studying to do.

What ammo is typically used? Is it match ammo or surplus XM or what?

Waht twist on the 17-18" barrels?

I was trying to kill two birds with one stone, my SPR build and a 3 gun AR. Guess I should go a cheaper route on the 3 gun and build a seperate SPR
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:13:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 1:14:22 PM EDT by Zak-Smith]
If you want a SPR clone, then that's that. But consider that the SPR is very heavy and uses obsolete fore-end rail/optics mounting methods (the long ARMS rail). If you don't mean an exact SPR clone, then we're right back at a 17-18" versatile upper.

A 17-18" 3Gun upper can basically double for anything a SPR can do.

Ammo used will depend on accuracy and range requirements. I shoot XM193 for close-range stages or matches, but BH 75gr for longer range 3Gun stages or precision matches. This requires an 8 twist or faster barrel. My Krieger 17" is 1:7.7".

-z
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:30:05 PM EDT
Yep, don't really mean an exact replica SPR. I mean an 18" Neoveske/Krieger/etc barrel, DD or Larue forend, bipod, scope/ACOG etc. A nice 18" gun that is capable of sub MOA up to 600 yards
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 1:43:07 PM EDT
The limit is going to be the ammunition and the shooter. 223 does not have much oomph left at that distance, and you are at the mercy of wind.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:31:54 PM EDT
Why would you guys not reccommend a 16" match grade upper (like a Recon barrel)?
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:33:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/31/2006 3:34:37 PM EDT by Zak-Smith]

Originally Posted By Onslaught:
Why would you guys not reccommend a 16" match grade upper (like a Recon barrel)?


A rifle length gas system will run smoother with less sight picture movement than a mid or carbine length gas system.

Follow the link I posted to the OLD thread on archive.ar15.com. We hashed out most of these issues there.
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 3:40:58 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:02:37 PM EDT
This is my current 3-gun rifle.

Bushmaster 20" govt profile bbl on a flattop cmt upper. This one has an adj stock so I can change the lop if I use the scope. Most of the time it has a EO-tech. It also has a Wilson comp, not as loud as some of the others and works pretty well. For what you save building one like this, you can get optic's or more ammo. jmo
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 5:43:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Zak-Smith:

Originally Posted By Onslaught:
Why would you guys not reccommend a 16" match grade upper (like a Recon barrel)?


A rifle length gas system will run smoother with less sight picture movement than a mid or carbine length gas system.

Follow the link I posted to the OLD thread on archive.ar15.com. We hashed out most of these issues there.


That was the last straw...

I joined so I can view archived threads
Link Posted: 1/31/2006 9:11:29 PM EDT
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