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Posted: 1/1/2006 6:47:23 AM EDT
I am in the process of choosing an AR for myself and I am perplexed by the choice that lay before me. I have decided that I will purchase the M4 version with a 16 inch barrel. As a U.S. Marine I was issued one of the original A2’s to see service back in the 80’s of which all were Colts. Later I heard that some Armalite A2’s were being issued though I never saw one. So now here in 2005 I am wondering what to buy. I always liked my Colt. It was very accurate and not finicky like my A1 had been. (Which I hated by the way!)

So how about some advice? I was at a gun show today and held a Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, Colt, Armalite and Olympic Arms. All were visibly almost identical save for very small details. My question is, are any of them superior and why? Please give real world advice. Today a self-professing expert told me not to buy an Olympic because it was not the rifle an Armalite was. When I asked what he meant he got very confused and started talking out of his very prodigious ass. It really boiled down to the fact that he sold Armalite and not Olympic Arms and he new little or nothing more.

Below are the furniture and extras that I intend to add. Any input on that would be welcome as well. So lets hear what ya got.
Thanks a bunch,
Wil htA.R.M.S. Scope mount and Cantilever Spacer
Yankee Hill folding front sight
A.R.M.S. folding rear sight
Magpul Stock
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:52:18 AM EDT
Colt, Bushmaster, or Armalite you can't go wrong. I would stay away from the Rock River Arms (RRA) if I were you. Those three rifles have all been used by the military so you can't go wrong. Colt is a little more pricey and I think you will find a Bushmaster that is more reasonably priced. Good luck.
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 6:59:30 AM EDT
Welcome to arfcom. The answer you are looking for is yes, get them all.


You will not be disappointed with any of those choices.

TXL
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 7:09:00 AM EDT
I own Colt and ArmaLite Rifles and I would recommend them to eveyone
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 8:45:07 PM EDT
Any one of those will do fine, if you're thinking of more that one manufacturer then you'll eventually end up with more than one rifle
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:20:35 PM EDT

Originally Posted By charliehorse794:
Colt, Bushmaster, or Armalite you can't go wrong. I would stay away from the Rock River Arms (RRA) if I were you. Those three rifles have all been used by the military so you can't go wrong. Colt is a little more pricey and I think you will find a Bushmaster that is more reasonably priced. Good luck.



Other than not having a military contract whats the matter with RRA? 4140 barrel?
Link Posted: 1/1/2006 9:48:03 PM EDT
I'm pretty sure that Armalite uses 4140 as well. Isn't this Armalite not the same Armalite that was around in the 60's?

I see nothing wrong with RRA. Mine has been a fine shooter.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:59:59 AM EDT
Is it true that the RRA lower receivers are milled slightly undersized to get a very tight fit with uppers from other manufacturers? If so, does this contribute to slightly better accuracy?

I can't get the rear receiver pin in/out of my RRA without using a drift pin and mallet.

I've never experienced this with Colt, Bushmaster, or DPMS receivers.

R/ Jim
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:14:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 5:23:03 AM EDT by Tweak]
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 5:21:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 6:57:16 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Rkangel777:
Isn't this Armalite not the same Armalite that was around in the 60's?





NO
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:01:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:03:51 AM EDT
I am pretty sure they did and that they still do. I am almost sure that Armalite is making A2's now for both the Marines and the Army. I could be wrong but I don't think so.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:11:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:24:25 AM EDT
Actually the point is not all that important to me. All that I know was that when the original A2 was released to the Marine Corps they took all of our old grungy A1’s from us and gave us nice shiny Colt A2’s. About 6 months into that replacement cycle there was talk that Armalite was providing some of the A2’s. This came from a buddy of mine that was our battalion armorer. We are still friends and I trust him so I am almost positive that some Armalite A2’s saw service with the Marines. There is the chance that I misunderstood him but I don’t think so
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:27:49 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:41:23 AM EDT
Look I was trying to be nice. If my friend with whom I served in the Corps with says something I take it to heart. If you say it it don’t mean shit sorry but you don’t rate my trust. Plus I find that many think that they understand the complex workings of the great machine we call the military supply chain but I find few that do. I surely don’t, I was just a humble intelligence officer. Most (as I suspect you are) are internet bloggers and self professed experts but much happens in the real world that never gets logged on the net or any other resource. So color me a skeptic. Unless you served I have my doubts. Nuff Said.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 7:47:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:35:42 AM EDT
First off, always was an intelligence officer. (8 years and proud of it.) I could choose to insult you here but I will refrain. Mostly because I got bored about an hour ago and I really just don’t care and never did. (If you would care to check my previous postings) As I stated before (I’ll say this slow and use small words cause I know it is hard for you to follow) all I know about this matter is that while in the FMF (that would be the Fleet Marine Force) the A2 was issued to the Marines first. Later from a far better source then your silly ass I personally was told that Armalite A2’s were making there way into the fleet. I have stated that I never saw one but I have no reason to doubt my friend who knows quite a bit more about the M16A2 then you or I ever will. So Again your ranting and unpleasantness rates you nothing with me.

I personally know only what I was taught about the A2 as a Marine. I am sure that much of that knowledge is gone now but I was there when they were issued. I carried one of the first ones off the line. I have friends that worked on them. That in my book buys me some rope. As far as I can tell you did none of these things and only know what you have read. So again if my friend, a U.S. Marine armorer said that there were Armalite A2’s issued in the 80’s. He rates more trust then your rude ass. So please just go away.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:37:15 AM EDT
First off, always was an intelligence officer. (8 years and proud of it.) I could choose to insult you here but I will refrain. Mostly because I got bored about an hour ago and I really just don’t care and never did. (If you would care to check my previous postings) As I stated before (I’ll say this slow and use small words cause I know it is hard for you to follow) all I know about this matter is that while in the FMF (that would be the Fleet Marine Force) the A2 was issued to the Marines first. Later from a far better source then your silly ass I personally was told that Armalite A2’s were making there way into the fleet. I have stated that I never saw one but I have no reason to doubt my friend who knows quite a bit more about the M16A2 then you or I ever will. So Again your ranting and unpleasantness rates you nothing with me.

I personally know only what I was taught about the A2 as a Marine. I am sure that much of that knowledge is gone now but I was there when they were issued. I carried one of the first ones off the line. I have friends that worked on them. That in my book buys me some rope. As far as I can tell you did none of these things and only know what you have read. So again if my friend, a U.S. Marine armorer said that there were Armalite A2’s issued in the 80’s. He rates more trust then your rude ass. So please just go away.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:41:20 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hermes:
I am in the process of choosing an AR for myself and I am perplexed by the choice that lay before me. I have decided that I will purchase the M4 version with a 16 inch barrel. As a U.S. Marine I was issued one of the original A2’s to see service back in the 80’s of which all were Colts.Later I heard that some Armalite A2’s were being issued though I never saw one. So now here in 2005 I am wondering what to buy. I always liked my Colt. It was very accurate and not finicky like my A1 had been. (Which I hated by the way!)

So how about some advice? I was at a gun show today and held a Bushmaster, Rock River Arms, Colt, Armalite and Olympic Arms. All were visibly almost identical save for very small details. My question is, are any of them superior and why?





I too am waiting for something to back up your Armalite statement, other than "he said, she said"


and a simple answer to your original question:

Quality Control, get a Colt, the others lack as much

My guess is that you already have your mind made up
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:41:42 AM EDT
When the A2 was first being delivered there was no functional company named ArmaLite. Eagle Arms bought the ArmaLite name in 1995. This current company; ArmaLite/Eagle arms does not have the type of facility needed to deliver Standard A rifles to the DOD. Such suppliers are required to have a certain level of security and a specific type of firing range, things the current company lacks.

FN, Colt's, Hyrdamatic, and H&R are the only suppliers of Standard A Service rifles/Carbines to RIA (Rock Island, the outfit that purchases Service rifles for DOD) since 1965. The documentation on these four contractors is easily verified, in that such contracts require huge quantities of paperwork.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:46:14 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 8:49:09 AM EDT by Aimless]
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:48:21 AM EDT
Collect all 3.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:49:47 AM EDT

Originally Posted By hermes:
Later from a far better source then your silly ass I personally was told that Armalite A2’s were making there way into the fleet. I have stated that I never saw one but I have no reason to doubt my friend who knows quite a bit more about the M16A2 then you or I ever will. So Again your ranting and unpleasantness rates you nothing with me.

I have friends that worked on them. That in my book buys me some rope. As far as I can tell you did none of these things and only know what you have read. So again if my friend, a U.S. Marine armorer said that there were Armalite A2’s issued in the 80’s. He rates more trust then your rude ass. So please just go away.





You really have not done your homework here have you?

I would suggest finding proof of any statement you wish to spew upon anyone here, rumors have no place here
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:56:18 AM EDT
Again, I personally never cared about this question. I am recalling a conversation had literally 20+ years ago. I stated in my first post that I never saw an Amalite in Service. I have no proof never had any proof. Never made any claims of proof. Never said that Armalites were in service. Still making no such claims. All I have is my “he said, she said.’ But again, I DO NOT CARE! I never made a claim of fact. I am not now. And until the last few moments I saw no one else stating facts. I never made any claim of fact. I just wanted some advice on an AR. Personally I just don't like Tweaks tone. I really honestly could not care less about this subject other than the fact that Tweak is a know-it-all ass.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:01:06 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:38:57 AM EDT
1Colt 2Bush Both are the TOPS!

And Hearing GOOD about RRA.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 10:45:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 10:46:26 AM EDT by boltcatch]
Hermes, you came here asking for advice and info, but when you were given info about what you posted you repeatedly told the very people you came here to ask stuff that you were pretty sure they were wrong based on some half remembered word from a buddy 20 years ago.

Tweak's "tone" is exactly what you should expect after telling him he doesn't know what he's talking about. I'll bet Tweak probably knows more about AR's than any half dozen people you've known, and we're lucky he comes in here and puts up all the "my local gunshow commando said...." threads.

I knew armorers too, and even they would pass on wild rumors and myths.

In any case, if, you carried a Colt before, you might be disappointed with something else. If you can afford it, just get a LE6920 and be done with it.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 11:20:18 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 1:42:55 PM EDT
Wow… sorry to have stepped on such hollowed ground without removing my shoes. My apoligies that we “gunshow commandos” even show up here at all. I am pretty sure we should be banned from speaking at all much less on important forums like this one. Next time we can just measure our dicks. That will solve all questions that I never asked. Thanks for your input next time I will try to remember that I am a mere mortal.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:11:06 PM EDT
Actually as I stated in the post that started this god awful mess I never saw an Armalite in service. I could be and apparently am wrong. I never really cared. Personally I would have surrendered the point this morning but it got turned into a pissing match at some point.

I put some faith in something that someone I trust said. Instead of blindly trusting someone I don’t know. (That actually makes real sense to me) I am sure that Tweak is knowledgeable from the information you provided. He is probably even a nice guy. But at some point he chose to insult me. (Actually it was the “ooo.. he is an intelligence officer now!” comment) So if he wants me to respect his service he damn well better respect mine. If not screw him.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 2:32:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:01:04 PM EDT
I really like my Bushmaster. Look at the specs of Bushmaster vs the others, and you will see that they have some definite advantages over some or all of the rest, depending on that particular feature. For example, the chamber, bore, and bolt carrier are chrome lined on the Bushmaster. Some other manufacturers only line the bore, or do not line any parts with chrome. Also, Bushmaster barrels are made from ordnance steel just like the M-16 and M-4, not 4140 steel like most other manufacturers. Also, the customer service at Bushmaster is excellent.

Whatever you choose, I hope you have a lot of fun with your new rifle.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 3:03:21 PM EDT
Also, you might want to check out the A.R.M.S. 38-EX Swan Sleeve. It comes with an integral #40 folding rear sight, and with the slightly extended rail, it puts an Aimpoint in perfect position without need for spacers or cantelever mounts. The A.R.M.S. Comp II M68 mount is excellent.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:30:42 PM EDT
Actually tweak, I never professed myself an expert. (Probably why I am here in the first place.) So your quips, snipes and elitists snobbery mean little to me. I have always been a person that can admit that someone knows more about a subject than I. I came to this forum to obtain some knowledge so I could make an informed decision. I personally don’t like people like yourself. I am sure that you are knowledgeable but it doesn’t change the fact that you are a disrespectful horse’s ass. I doubt we would ever be friends in real life so just go away. I can make it without any more of your input. You are welcome to stay away. Thanks for playing and have a nice life.head.gif
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:45:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Mike_AK:
Also, you might want to check out the A.R.M.S. 38-EX Swan Sleeve. It comes with an integral #40 folding rear sight, and with the slightly extended rail, it puts an Aimpoint in perfect position without need for spacers or cantelever mounts. The A.R.M.S. Comp II M68 mount is excellent.



Thanks for the input Mike. I took a look at the Colt and the Bushmaster again this afternoon. I was leaning towards the Bushmaster simply because I am not sure there is $400 worth of difference in them. From what I have read and heard here it seems to be a solid choice.
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 4:50:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/2/2006 5:06:18 PM EDT by hermes]

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By hermes:
my friend who knows quite a bit more about the M16A2 then you or I ever will.



hat
That you like to pretend that you are a princess? Yes that is apparent
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:20:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 8:35:08 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By Aimless:
Maybe we can put that issue aside for the moment and concentrate on what carbine this gentleman wants to buy.hanks.



asked and answered counselor



???horse.gif what are you talking about?
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:20:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 1/2/2006 9:44:22 PM EDT
hey hermes, buy a colt, you wont be sorry.
hey tweek, give the new guy a break, he didnt know that this site has such a thick culture
( yeah, i know i am still a new guy, but you learn fast)
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 5:21:01 AM EDT

Originally Posted By cnow:
hey hermes, buy a colt, you wont be sorry.
hey tweek, give the new guyhe( yeah, i know i am still a new guy, but you learn fast)



I have not made my mind up but it is down to the Colt & the Bushmaster. I have come to realize that the Colt does demand a great deal of respect here. The Bushy seems to have a solid following as well. It really boils down to a price issue at this point. This is not a huge issue but I hate to throw away $400 for little or no reason. I just need to decide if there really is $400 worth of difference between the two. Thanks a bunch for your help.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 9:57:50 AM EDT
Hermes:

Undoubtedly over a period of time you are going to own several AR-15's. All of us do.

However, you should have at least one Colt in your arsenal. Trust me, you will want one, sooner or later. My first rifle was a Colt Sporter lightweight. I was wise enough to purchase a Colt 7.62x39 flat-top upper for it, which gives me 2 great Colt rifles in the 2 best calibers.

So, best advice is to GET THE COLT FIRST.

R/ Jim
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 10:11:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 2:32:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By cnow:
give the new guyhr


I did, he asked a question, he was answered, he argued with the answer using false information. We tend to step on false info here as soon as possible since it tends to propagate

Mattel anyone?



Actually that is false but at this point it really doesn’t matter much. First off I didn’t ask “You” anything. Secondly I didn’t spread “False information” (Still seeing commies behind bushes are we? They have medicine for that you know?) I stated that I thought that Armalite had provided the U.S. Marines some A2’s in the mid 80’s. I also made it very clear that I was unsure about this. All this was in my first post by the way. This quote pretty much clears all that up. “…later I heard that some Armalite A2’s were being issued though I never saw one.” If your dumb ass would read you would realize that.

It was you that crashed my thread and came in here swinging you dick like you were John Holmes. Then you got in a tizzy because I didn’t take your word as gospel even though I have no idea who you are. (those were better days back when I had no idea of your existence… ahh memories!) I have admitted that you were right about that. (I actually never really cared about it in the first place) But you still have gained no cred with me. You are an arrogant ass who does what he does because he has risen as far as he can. A medium sized fish with a small intellect in a small pond.

I got most of the info I came for. So have your fun tweak. God knows it is the only satisfaction you get in your pathetic little existence. I feel sorry for self-important bastards like you. Again you are more than welcome to never come back. I know that is unlikely though because you are just too thick to stop coming. he
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:02:49 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 3:05:28 PM EDT by Tweak]
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 3:09:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 1/3/2006 3:10:41 PM EDT by Ekie]
I like this guy too, and come to think of it would be great to have his input on the legality of M16 carriers in semiautomatics, or what gun was it Al Pacino used in Heat.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:08:47 PM EDT

Originally Posted By hermes:

Originally Posted By Tweak:

Originally Posted By cnow:
give the new guy a break,



I did, he asked a question, he was answered, he argued with the answer using false information. We tend to step on false info here as soon as possible since it tends to propagate

Mattel anyone?



Actually that is false but at this point it really doesn’t matter much. First off I didn’t ask “You” anything. Secondly I didn’t spread “False information” (Still seeing commies behind bushes are we? They have medicine for that you know?) I stated that I thought that Armalite had provided the U.S. Marines some A2’s in the mid 80’s. I also made it very clear that I was unsure about this. All this was in my first post by the way. This quote pretty much clears all that up. “…later I heard that some Armalite A2’s were being issued though I never saw one.” If your dumb ass would read you would realize that.

It was you that crashed my thread and came in here swinging you dick like you were John Holmes. Then you got in a tizzy because I didn’t take your word as gospel even though I have no idea who you are. (those were better days back when I had no idea of your existence… ahh memories!) I have admitted that you were right about that. (I actually never really cared about it in the first place) But you still have gained no cred with me. You are an arrogant ass who does what he does because he has risen as far as he can. A medium sized fish with a small intellect in a small pond.

I got most of the info I came for. So have your fun tweak. God knows it is the only satisfaction you get in your pathetic little existence. I feel sorry for self-important bastards like you. Again you are more than welcome to never come back. I know that is unlikely though because you are just too thick to stop coming.

PS. And by the way you don't need to cut me any breaks. I am perfectly capable of outsmarting your dimwitted ass.



Look, I've got no dog in this hunt, I could see why you took offense, but on the other hand, What I just quoted wasn't quite how it went. You know, if someone spits on you, it just makes you wet. You need a thick skin around here if you're going to last. Now, you don't have to want to hang around but I've found this to be the most informative site on the AR15 weapon there is. There are HIGHLY and I mean Highly knowledgeable people that are here. You need a thick skin and you need to know enough to cut through the BS. How do you know enough, well you know it when you can spot the BS. And on top of that, many points are open to discussion. It's the nature of the beast. Just start over, forget this thread ever happened and maybe we'll all get along. For a bit anyways.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:47:38 PM EDT
I selected ArmaLite when I bought my AR-15s. No real reason except perhaps the name of the company, which really had nothing to do with anything. I met the company president at Camp Perry last summer and we chatted for a while. Does he remember me? Not a chance.

I have talked to some of the ArmaLite people on the phone and via email, they were alsways nice to me.

I am very pleased with my ARs. My neighbor's ARs are Bushmasters; excellent quality also and he likes them very much. As I have said somewhere, sometime in the past, any of the ArmaLite, Bushmaster, Colt, Rock River and Stag (and probably some others that I missed,) will do well for you. It seems all these companies stand behind their product and that is what counts. You can always get a crappy unit, but as long as the company will take its responsibilities seriously, what is the big deal?

I was never in the military and I am way to old to start now, but I have been shooting for a LONG time and I will state here and now that firearms-related companies provide the finest customer service as an industry, than any other,

If you disagree with that statement, big deal, I don't care.

Now, pick the rifle that you think has all the features you want, support your local fireamrs retailer and enjoy the rifle and the service.

I will be happy to answer any other questions you have after you get your dream AR-15. (Unfortunately, there will also be a bunch of other yahoos that will also try to answer your questions, just remember they are all wrong.)

This is a good group, they just have a lot of opinions and those that are divergent from mine should be ignored.
Link Posted: 1/3/2006 6:47:46 PM EDT
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