User Panel
Thanks for sharing. Lots of interesting things happening in the AR world nowadays.
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Chen,
Can you clarify this? The first picture shows a Troy rail system. I was under the impression that the POF gas system would only work with the POF rail system or with their own standard handguards. Did they redesign it so that it would fit with other aftermarket railed handguards? If so, which ones will fit? Thanks! ETA: Another thing I wonder is if it is available with a one piece fixed front sight. I see that there is a railed gas block that they attach a fixed front sight to, but if it were my gun I would feel more secure with an all one piece FSB, like a standard FSB. Of course, my worries may be unfounded once more reliability testing is done. I look forward to hearing more about that front sight setup when you get more time. I am just not a big fan of flip front sights personally. |
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Is this system close to a HK 416 style upper?
Looks like a nice piece. I like the idea of a 18" barrel to add some fps over a M4 style. |
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I love that nickle plating-- That's pretty impressive--
If it fits under a Troy rail system isn't it technically better than the HK system that needs a higher upper receiver rail? Those are some aggressive flutes-- not like BM's barely noticeable weight reduction. |
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It is still prototype stage and I will give a better insight to this new developement in the near future when I receive a test unit. In my opinion, this is one neat little system which i had a look of it at last year's shot show. now that POF is full bore behind the development, I think we will soon see a production veriosn of it. I like it better then LW in a way is the gas regulator is a proven system. much like the highly developed HK system, there is a regulator where as teh LW system is just a simple piston design. of course the Lw clan will soon jump in and porbably correct my statement since they have a better in depth knowledge of their system. |
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Great. Thanks for the info. I look forward to hearing more details as they become available. |
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The LW system is self-regulating. If there is more resistance (dirt or what ever), the pressure will continue to rise until the resistance is overcome. It has it's limitations, of course. I don't mean to hi-jack, just wanted to clarify. |
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"of course the Lw clan will soon jump in and porbably correct my statement since they have a better in depth knowledge of their system."
I wouldn't doubt it. Look at what happened when I asked for everyone's opinion BUT THEIRS |
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Im reallllllly liking that troy rail system on there.
If they make the upper barrel 4150 with chrome and a 1/7 with a vortex as an option minus the flutes, I know what my next upper is going to be, and its going to replace my current M4 as my go to gun. |
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Is the interior REALLY nickled? Why nickle instead of hard chrome?
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tagorama.
I have to POF lowers and I love them to death. I really want a POF upper sometime soon. |
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The Troy rail system in the picture is a prototype. There is a slight difference, well one that I know of, to the Troy rail system. I think other manufactures will have to design there system to fit POF uppers. I hope the production version comes out soon. I like both the carbine and MRF version. |
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This is very interesting me- I will have to do more reading on this.
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Because hard chrome would be inferior in that application would be my first guess. Second guess is to do hard chrome right in that application it would have to be on top of the nickle and they didnt feel that was necessary. |
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Because the LW is self regulated you can attach a suppressor and never mess with the piston system. With the POF you must disassemble and reassemble the piston when you add or remove a suppressor. The POF is louder than DI with a suppressor and LW is quieter with a suppressor than DI.
How much for one of those nickled uppers? |
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At Shot Show 2005 didnt troy debut their "own" piston upper with the Troy rails. Someone mentioned it was done in concert with POF. Anybody remember this?
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Can you explain this in more detail? I plan on building an SBR that I would like to have a quick detatch suppressor for. I certainly wouldn't want to mess with the piston system everytime I took it off. Why would you have to do this with the POF system? How do you know that it would be louder than DI and the LW would be quieter than DI? Have you tested it or seen tests posted somewhere? I'm still not even sure I want to go with a gas piston for my SBR, rather than just DI, but if I do, I want to make sure this stuff is all worked out before I buy. Thanks. |
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You have to flip the piston thingy in the front on POF and reinstall and yes it has been tested LW was quieter by 5 db. Testing done by Mr Silvers of silencertests.com
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I think Troy did not have the resources to run with it so POF took it and kept on developing it and the low profile system is what you see today is the result. |
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Flipping the piston will take you all of about 30 seconds. Not hard at all and should not be considered much of an issue. Im willing to bet that the POF will shoot through a silencer with the piston in either way. I have no proof of it but trust me it will. Im very impressed with all of the pistons out there but the POF is robust and has yet to fail me with any ammo. It runs very clean! |
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What type or brand of Buttstock is that one with the adjustable cheek piece and buttpad?
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That's the Magpul PRS stock. Got one last mont (pre-production) and love it. It should be out for retail now. Check their site or your dealers. |
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For more info on the PRS:
PRS On the POF - come on Frank! you have got to stop teasing us with the rifle length system stuff. PLEASE make it happen like yesterday. While I am sure the 11.5" - 16" are flying out the door with the CQB folks, please don't forget that us long range precission types are chomping at the bit for the 18"-24" versions. Piston Systems = YES! Gas Systems = NO! On second thought forget that I said that, my wife and my bank account will thank you if you don't come out with the 18"-24" versions! Got to build an 18" version, a 24" version, man this is going to get expensive. Thanks, "Capt Richardson" |
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Why does that 416 have a tube sticking out the front of the regulator and generally getting in the way? It doesn't appear on the other guns picced.
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OK Simon. It is the piston partially removed is all. Demonstrating the AAC FH giving some trouble. Some quick dremel time and she should work great.
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OK.....now I get iy. The darned thing gets int he way of the piston being removed for disassembly etc. Sorry.....real slow today. Simon |
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Thanks a lot for the picture. I appreciate it. You'll have to let me know how the can works out on that system once you go at it with the dremel. |
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Mr. H, hey, you still out there? Can you give us a few more pix of that new front sight from a couple different angles so we can see how it looks overall, as well as some details? Thanks.
John |
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range report; thursday moring, 35 degrees
shot the POF upper for the first time today. the first 8 rounds fired went fine. then i attached the silencer and fired about 8 more rounds with no problems. after that the shit started. to make a long painfull story short, the gas piston that you see in the picture above, was binding up in the gas tube at the rear most position. it was preventing the piston and push rod from returning home. that in turn prevented the bolt from closing. i removed the piston and push rod and rolled the gas piston on a flat surface and could see a ever so slight hump in it. in addition to that, when the piston was installed i could get it to move freely IF i rotated it to a certain spot. but i could also get it to bind if i rotated it to another spot. so in short, i can't tell if the piston got warped or the tube is bent and needless to say its going back to POF today. other than that, its pretty cool while it worked! cycling was nice and smooth,,,,, on the notion that piston type rifle will run cleaner when using a suppressor; they do run a little cleaner obviously since there is no dumping gas on the bolt but you still have the back blast down the barrel and that will still leave crap on the bolt. the nice part is though you can wipe it off with a rag real easy since the bolt didn't have all that extra oil that i normally run in a DI ar15. |
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as soon as i get the rifle back, i'll take some more pics. i shipped it back today to get it fixed, hopefully. frank seems like a great guy, from a customers stand point, and he was always there to answer the phone when i called about the problem. the issues seems pretty straight forward so it shouldn't be an issue. |
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other than the piston binding up, the upper didn't seem to care which way the piston was installed. there is a small hole end and a large hole end in the piston and it would cycle completly when installed either direction. more to come later. |
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WELL, I GOT MY UPPER BACK FROM pof YESTERDAY AND TOOK IT TO the range this morning. ran 180 rounds thru it with no problems. half of those fired were with a suppressor and using the standard gas setting.
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I want one so frickin bad. when can we expect the longer versions?
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"... and are they working up a 6.8 SPC version?"
If it takes standard barrels all you would need is that and a bolt. I don't know if their bolt is any different but i would think you could install a 6.8 bolt into their carrier. correct me if im wrong. but that would be sweet. |
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They are working on a 6.5 Grendel version. I think 6.8 is further down the road... TS |
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Do you think you just bent the system one of the times you removed it or when it was being removed by someone else? I can't imagine it's something you are going to ever need to remove much, is it?
I'm one of the people who thought the predator looked like the cat's ass as opposed to the cat's meow. Now this first upper in the first picture really looks slick. I am not one for fluting, but it seems to fit. What type of FS is that? Is that a BiLock? It just seems to have a lot of meat in the area with the wrench flats... |
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So it just is over gassed then when the suppressor is attached correct? Did you notice increased recoil witht he more open gas setting? |
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Interesting reading:
www.armalite.com/library/techNotes/tnote54.htm |
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Yeah well if they would have done the test between a FN-FAl rather than a M-14 the results would have been reversed. |
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blah blah blah
That's their official statement on why gas piston uppers are no good. We've heard it already. I understand that even with the teenie tiny gas pistons in these new systems and the very small and lightweight operating rods that there is still SOME added moment above the centerline of the bore of the rifle but it is very negligible. I'd rather take that little extra moving mass above the barrel for the cleanliness the piston offers. I plan on supressing my AR15 so a piston system would keep me from having to buy a gas buster as well... |
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LOL, that link is old...I just want to see how you guys react to it ,haha. Seriously though, I almost ordered an upper from POF, but they told me about 6-8 weeks for production. I'll prob wait til the price drops a bit.
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