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Posted: 12/7/2005 9:11:06 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/7/2005 9:15:11 PM EDT by SMGLee]
If anyone is think the XCR is a vaporware, think again... RobArms was in full presence at this year's SAR show in Phoenix, Arizona. Alex stated the delivery of the XCR will begin within the next month. They are just finishing production of a few small parts. Currently the 1400 plus for the weapon with Yankee Hill Machine front and rear sight stands.

the extrude 6000 series Aluminum receiver is much cheaper to produce then the LMT MRP, much in tune as the FN SCAR but I believe the FN is doing its receiver in 7000 series. instead of paying the thousands to replace a damaged receiver like the MRP it will be around 3-400 for the XCR receiver.

This is the gun in full guise.


As you begin to see, this is the final production version and they have tested the 6.8 and also a 7.62x39 version which might be in production in the future. currently this weapon will accept any AR platform magazines, that and a few small parts are all it has in common between the two platforms.

one screw relese the barrel assembly which also contain the front gas assembly.


barrel disassembled, notice the much longer barrel extension which is suppose to provide much more strengthen then the AR system.


This is what is interesting...AK style gas system which uses a three lug bolt that is both stronger and provide a better lock up.


This is the close up of the XCR receiver which show the removable ejection port buffer. This buffer will be part of the assemble that will require changing when a new caliber in 6.8 nad 7.62x39 arrives.


A complete assembly pic ture show some interesting features. the bolt carrier assembly is minus the bolt, and a neat little feature is still held as secret until the release of the system.


one upgrade available with the production XCR is the adapter for AR stock...


The weapon felt good in the hand, it balanced well and it can be mounted quickly and a sight picture acquired. the trigger is crisp I think this can be a great weapon with excellent potential.. I reserve the final judgement until I get some trigger time on the system. only time will tell if XCR can succeed this is highly competitive market.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:26:44 PM EDT
If it is around 1400 I WILL be buying one. I hope they continue with plans to make it in 7.62x39 that takes AK mags
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:31:16 PM EDT
I checked it out too at SAR Show in Phoenix, looks very promising.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:32:18 PM EDT
lets see the bolt
1 does it have a fixed ejector like an AK?
2 or does it have a plunger like a AR?
3 what does the extractor look like?

this stuff is important as far as reliablity is concerned!
looks like a FNC with a bolt hold open to me
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:44:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By sr-47:
lets see the bolt
1 does it have a fixed ejector like an AK?
2 or does it have a plunger like a AR?
3 what does the extractor look like?

this stuff is important as far as reliablity is concerned!
looks like a FNC with a bolt hold open to me



fixed ejector build into the receiver....
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:48:49 PM EDT
.
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:49:29 PM EDT

Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:52:33 PM EDT
on the left side where the two holes in the receiver are in the 3rd pic
that looks the same as a FNC
i like your post
do you have i pic of the bolt

thanks
marvin
Link Posted: 12/7/2005 9:57:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
If anyone is think the XCR is a vaporware, think again...



Sorry, the XCR still qualifies as vaporware. That may change.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 5:37:11 AM EDT
Outstanding photos, thanks SMGLee.

Its nice to see the XCR is still moving ahead. I look forward to checking one out.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 5:48:16 AM EDT
Looks like the folding stock wont block the trigger or pistol grip so is there any reason it wouldnt fire with it folded ?
Thanks for the pic's.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 6:23:58 AM EDT
Hmmm, one hex screw is all that holds the barrel in place? Chen, did you get any idea of how the barrel retaining system works? Is it really this simple? Thanks for the pics, this system looks promising.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 6:33:22 AM EDT

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
If anyone is think the XCR is a vaporware, think again... RobArms was in full presence at this year's SAR show in Phoenix, Arizona. Alex stated the delivery of the XCR will begin within the next month. They are just finishing production of a few small parts. Currently the 1400 plus for the weapon with Yankee Hill Machine front and rear sight stands.

the extrude 6000 series Aluminum receiver is much cheaper to produce then the LMT MRP, much in tune as the FN SCAR but I believe the FN is doing its receiver in 7000 series. instead of paying the thousands to replace a damaged receiver like the MRP it will be around 3-400 for the XCR receiver.

This is the gun in full guise.
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/SAR05-007.jpg

As you begin to see, this is the final production version and they have tested the 6.8 and also a 7.62x39 version which might be in production in the future. currently this weapon will accept any AR platform magazines, that and a few small parts are all it has in common between the two platforms.

one screw relese the barrel assembly which also contain the front gas assembly.
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/SAR05-008.jpg

barrel disassembled, notice the much longer barrel extension which is suppose to provide much more strengthen then the AR system.
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/SAR05-009.jpg

This is what is interesting...AK style gas system which uses a three lug bolt that is both stronger and provide a better lock up.
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/SAR05-010.jpg

This is the close up of the XCR receiver which show the removable ejection port buffer. This buffer will be part of the assemble that will require changing when a new caliber in 6.8 nad 7.62x39 arrives.
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/SAR05-014.jpg

A complete assembly pic ture show some interesting features. the bolt carrier assembly is minus the bolt, and a neat little feature is still held as secret until the release of the system.
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/SAR05-012.jpg

one upgrade available with the production XCR is the adapter for AR stock...
photos.imageevent.com/smglee/cltactical/SAR05-016.jpg

The weapon felt good in the hand, it balanced well and it can be mounted quickly and a sight picture acquired. the trigger is crisp I think this can be a great weapon with excellent potential.. I reserve the final judgement until I get some trigger time on the system. only time will tell if XCR can succeed this is highly competitive market.



Thanks for sharing the photos SMGLee!
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 7:53:33 AM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 8:16:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 8:22:41 AM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By SMGLee:


the extrude 6000 series Aluminum receiver is much cheaper to produce then the LMT MRP, much in tune as the FN SCAR but I believe the FN is doing its receiver in 7000 series. instead of paying the thousands to replace a damaged receiver like the MRP it will be around 3-400 for the XCR receiver.






That is all I need to hear about this to make up my mind not to buy it.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 8:23:08 AM EDT
I continue to hate you, SMGLee.



Link Posted: 12/8/2005 9:12:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 9:34:02 AM EDT by SMGLee]

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By SMGLee:


the extrude 6000 series Aluminum receiver is much cheaper to produce then the LMT MRP, much in tune as the FN SCAR but I believe the FN is doing its receiver in 7000 series. instead of paying the thousands to replace a damaged receiver like the MRP it will be around 3-400 for the XCR receiver.






That is all I need to hear about this to make up my mind not to buy it.




ok, why?? no disrespect to your statement, but i like a healthy discussion on your opinion. :)

A easily replaced upper is a very nice feature that will keep your wallet where it belongs... besides, if you are a civilian, it wouldbe hard press for you to damage the upper.

I am a big MRP fan... as you can see the 40pg thread on MRP started by me.. but from my limited experience... I see a great potential for this system to excel. the quick change barrel, AK gas system with a very robust bolt, fixed ejector and monolitic rail platform is all what you need to take the 556 to the next level... FN is doing it with SCAR and that civilian is still years from being released, but this XCR as stated by Alex Robinson..will be released in the next few month. of course we shouldn't count on the date since we all have seen enough vaporware in our times... I for one plug down the big bucks for a Shrike...., but this is not a Shrike... this has solid engineering behind it, and the company has continue to produce M96 en mass so as far as the ability to put it on the market, Robinson Arms should be able to fulfill its promise. as far as the exact date.. I guess we will have to wait and see.

I for one think this XCR is a nice rifle, pack with the feature of AR egronomics, AK simplicity, and advanced feature such as rail platform, if Alex can keep it around 1400 to 1600, it should be a solid hit... I do however dislike the YHM sights on it.. I would in the first minute switch it out for the Troy BattleSight.

AK conversion will not be able to take a battle field pickup.. it will have to be a redesigned magazine. this is also the same for SCAR for now.

Link Posted: 12/8/2005 9:38:55 AM EDT
thats probably the same rifle alex had at the SAR show in 2004, that was supposed to be ready in february '05. so whatever. by the time they get it to market POF, LW and even FN will most likely own the piston 223 market but thats just my displeasure with RA and thier promisses. kindas like the shrike i guess.

as form the the AR15 carbine stock, ya it looks great but it also looks still set to low to get a good check rest. at least it an improvment over the tube thing.

all that RA bashing aside, if they work well and dont break i'll own one, if they ever make it to market.

to bad the RAV 7.62 can't be available.


Link Posted: 12/8/2005 11:32:46 AM EDT
Thanks for the pics SMGLee. I have been waiting this long, what is another month or so. This seems to be the trend with new weapons. I ordered a Cobb Mfg. BA50 5 months ago and it was suppose to be ready in 2.5, but should be here in 3 weeks. I guess we just have to play the waiting game. I don't understand why they announce delivery dates early, wait until there is a good quantity produced then ship it to market. You would think RA would have learned from all the bad PR they have received from the M96. The FN Scar is a year or more away so the XCR will hold me over unti the L and H are released.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 11:46:04 AM EDT
Looks like a winner to me.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 2:03:40 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SMGLee:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By SMGLee:


the extrude 6000 series Aluminum receiver is much cheaper to produce then the LMT MRP, much in tune as the FN SCAR but I believe the FN is doing its receiver in 7000 series. instead of paying the thousands to replace a damaged receiver like the MRP it will be around 3-400 for the XCR receiver.






That is all I need to hear about this to make up my mind not to buy it.




ok, why?? no disrespect to your statement, but i like a healthy discussion on your opinion. :)




My sentiments exactly.

On an unrelated note, does anyone know why the Picatinny raisl found on the side of the XCR are split down the middle (similar to the Surefire railed forearm) as opposed to the normal type (i.e., MI, KAC, Troy, GP, ect...)?

Thanks.

Justin
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 2:25:15 PM EDT

Originally Posted By SMGLee:

This is the close up of the XCR receiver which show the removable ejection port buffer. This buffer will be part of the assemble that will require changing when a new caliber in 6.8 nad 7.62x39 arrives.



If RA's pratices/performance with the M96 have been corrected, then I might be interested in a 6.8SPC XCR. That and assuming the $1.4K price tag holds.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 2:47:52 PM EDT
Looks great and actually a lot simpler than I imagined

Kudos to RA and those soon to get theirs!!
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:00:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 3:02:25 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By SMGLee:

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By SMGLee:


the extrude 6000 series Aluminum receiver is much cheaper to produce then the LMT MRP, much in tune as the FN SCAR but I believe the FN is doing its receiver in 7000 series. instead of paying the thousands to replace a damaged receiver like the MRP it will be around 3-400 for the XCR receiver.






That is all I need to hear about this to make up my mind not to buy it.




ok, why?? no disrespect to your statement, but i like a healthy discussion on your opinion. :)






SMGLee,

Forging is way superior to extrusion and 7000 series (Quality AR-15 Brands) Al is superior to 6000 series Al.

Extrusion is a cheap way to make parts. The tradeoff is a lack of strength when compared to the same forged part.

IMHO, forging is the only way to make parts for firearms.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:10:28 PM EDT
Scott,

I see you point, but that gets into the expense... Robinson can bring this rifle to the market for teh same price LMT charges for a stripped MRP upper. FN is keeping the SCAR at a extreme low price for the military. all this can only be accomplished by using the extrusion method.

I think with proper engineering on the platform, XCR can be durable as a military firearm.. the only question is how far will the XCR go in today's very crowd market with mega buck manufacture pouring dollar to win military contracts.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:11:26 PM EDT
Thanks for posting this my friend.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:19:14 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 3:19:53 PM EDT
Thanks for the update.

I am curious as to why RA would produce it with out of spec rails though, especially when the original version would have had 1913's for the SCAR trials.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:03:36 PM EDT

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Thanks for the update.

I am curious as to why RA would produce it with out of spec rails though, especially when the original version would have had 1913's for the SCAR trials.



just a thought, but maybe to save an ounce of weight (or less)

i thought ARMS has rails like that, no?
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:45:19 PM EDT
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:45:21 PM EDT
Why do you feel that a extrusion is not well suited for the upper rec'r? All it needs to do is hold some parts in rough alignment and provide a mounting surface for all those silly gadgets that people insist on putting on guns these days.

What differences between 60xx and 70xx aluminum make 70xx that much more suitable for upper rec'rs?

I'm not trying to be arguemnetitive or abrasive - I'm just curious.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:47:30 PM EDT
Why do you feel that a extrusion is not well suited for the upper rec'r? All it needs to do is hold some parts in rough alignment and provide a mounting surface for all those silly gadgets that people insist on putting on guns these days.

What differences between 60xx and 70xx aluminum make 70xx that much more suitable for upper rec'rs?

I'm not trying to be arguemnetitive or abrasive - I'm just curious.

Thanks.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:49:39 PM EDT
My interest in the XCR has been renewed. Thanks for the post.

Bomber
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 4:59:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Thekatar:
Sorry, the XCR still qualifies as vaporware. That may change.





Absolutely.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 5:25:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mr_h:

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Thanks for the update.

I am curious as to why RA would produce it with out of spec rails though, especially when the original version would have had 1913's for the SCAR trials.



just a thought, but maybe to save an ounce of weight (or less)

i thought ARMS has rails like that, no?


ARMS has similar rail dimensions as well that are out of spec and have caused mounting issues with some products.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 5:34:15 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 5:34:55 PM EDT by h8mtv]
I am very much looking forward to getting one of these in my hands.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 6:33:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 6:34:06 PM EDT by scottryan]

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Scott,

I see you point, but that gets into the expense... Robinson can bring this rifle to the market for teh same price LMT charges for a stripped MRP upper. FN is keeping the SCAR at a extreme low price for the military. all this can only be accomplished by using the extrusion method.

I think with proper engineering on the platform, XCR can be durable as a military firearm.. the only question is how far will the XCR go in today's very crowd market with mega buck manufacture pouring dollar to win military contracts.



I know where you are coming from. I just don't like the trend currently with manufacturers making parts from lesser processes such as...

Cast zinc on the Walther P22
Same for the Sig Mosquito
Cast steel on Springfield M1A
Cast Ruger Parts

All these guns have potential if they weren't made the way they were.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 7:02:36 PM EDT
SMG Lee, thanks for putting this up. I have been interested in this rifle for awhile now and if they bring it to us for $1400.00 I will buy one.
Link Posted: 12/8/2005 9:34:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2005 9:36:08 PM EDT by handbook]
wow, awesome pics Chen!

There's nothing wrong with using 6xxx series alloy and extrusions.

although 7xxx series alloys can have approximately 80% greater yield strength of 6xxx alloys, we're talking 73,000psi vs. 40,000psi. that's more than enough strength for the receiver and rails. the additional strength of 7xxx alloy is not necessary.

7xxx alloys are much more difficult to extrude, by a factor of 10. the 7xxx alloys require a greater minimum wall thickness than 6xxx alloys(10% more) when extruded. the stiffness, density and elongation of the two series are basically the same. the end 7xxx product would be slightly heavier.

the raw 7xxx series material also costs more. also 7xxx alloys take longer to age in the hardening process and have less corrosion resistance than 6xxx alloys.

a brand new forge or machining raw billet is very expensive. tooling and mill machine time is expensive. the extrusion dies are much less $$ investment and less machining.

some big name rail makers use wrought(extruded tubes) for their aluminum freefloats... and they haven't failed yet.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 4:51:41 AM EDT

Originally Posted By scottryan:

Originally Posted By SMGLee:
Scott,

I see you point, but that gets into the expense... Robinson can bring this rifle to the market for teh same price LMT charges for a stripped MRP upper. FN is keeping the SCAR at a extreme low price for the military. all this can only be accomplished by using the extrusion method.

I think with proper engineering on the platform, XCR can be durable as a military firearm.. the only question is how far will the XCR go in today's very crowd market with mega buck manufacture pouring dollar to win military contracts.



I know where you are coming from. I just don't like the trend currently with manufacturers making parts from lesser processes such as...

Cast zinc on the Walther P22
Same for the Sig Mosquito
Cast steel on Springfield M1A
Cast Ruger Parts

All these guns have potential if they weren't made the way they were.



Ruger?
When was the last time you heard about a Ruger revolver going tits up? Also, since Ruger casts parts for certain other quality brands you will have to forgive me if I have trouble with Ruger being on that list.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:15:07 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoadedDrum:

Originally Posted By scottryan:
I know where you are coming from. I just don't like the trend currently with manufacturers making parts from lesser processes such as...

Cast zinc on the Walther P22
Same for the Sig Mosquito
Cast steel on Springfield M1A
Cast Ruger Parts

All these guns have potential if they weren't made the way they were.



Ruger?
When was the last time you heard about a Ruger revolver going tits up? Also, since Ruger casts parts for certain other quality brands you will have to forgive me if I have trouble with Ruger being on that list.




There is a huge difference between parts that are designed to be cast from the outset (Rugers, Steyr AUG receiver) and parts that are cast simply because it's cheap (SA M1A, P22, Mosquito, cheap AR lowers and FSBs).
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 5:54:33 AM EDT
As usual, great post and pic! Thanks Chen!
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:26:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 6:27:06 AM EDT by NewbHunter]
tag

Thanks SMGLee!
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 6:50:29 AM EDT
Thanks for the pics and the writeup.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 7:20:15 AM EDT
SMGLee

Thanks for the update. I would have to agree with some others that, until they start delivering these in numbers, they are still pretty much "vaporware". I do think they will get delivered but they question is when??? I think most would agree that they would rather see these take another 3 months to get released, but run perfect when they do, rather then releasing them this week with issues. I think Robinson just needs to quick stating dates until the are 100% (or at least 99.5%) sure they are ready to ship.

All that said, it does look like a hell of a design. It looks like they kept just about all of the positives things from the AR platform and improved the AR's short comings. I doubt I will have the money for one (well really more like, for my needs, I would be hard pressed to justify the money) but assuming they run as advertised, I think it's a hell of a weapon and well worth the asking price.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 7:53:44 AM EDT

Originally Posted By CitySlicker:

On an unrelated note, does anyone know why the Picatinny raisl found on the side of the XCR are split down the middle (similar to the Surefire railed forearm) as opposed to the normal type (i.e., MI, KAC, Troy, GP, ect...)?

Thanks.

Justin






Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:

Originally Posted By mr_h:

Originally Posted By olds442tyguy:
Thanks for the update.

I am curious as to why RA would produce it with out of spec rails though, especially when the original version would have had 1913's for the SCAR trials.



just a thought, but maybe to save an ounce of weight (or less)

i thought ARMS has rails like that, no?


ARMS has similar rail dimensions as well that are out of spec and have caused mounting issues with some products.




So that is a weight saving measure?
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 8:29:14 AM EDT
I saw somewhere on the XCR website that they plan on a .308 for the end of 2006 also.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 8:53:42 AM EDT
Chen,
Great pics & post, she sure looks like a winner (once you add the AR stock adapter that is )
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 9:12:30 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 9:14:17 AM EDT by Green0]
"barrel disassembled, notice the much longer barrel extension which is suppose to provide much more strengthen then the AR system."

My guess would be that it needs to be longer to be a slip-fit [as it must be] and provide decent accuracy. It's probably more about that. That barrel system (slip fit) is common to belt fed machine guns like the 249, and M60, neither of which produced amazing point accuracy. (The 240 series which does provide good point accuracy uses an interupted thread-- slip fit and half a turn to provide the best of both worlds- accuracy like a rifle with the interchangeable barrels of a machine gun.)

I do love the idea of an un-interupted top rail and a folding stock though; and that is what I like about this design.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:22:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/9/2005 10:23:44 AM EDT by Kisara]
Only $1400? I'll definitely take one.

Future EE post:
WTT: Misc. AR parts, New Condition
YHM front/rear sights, A2 grip, Thermold magazine, A2 FH, rail panels. Will trade for Troy sights, MIAD, TD VFG and panels, Vortex.
Link Posted: 12/9/2005 10:25:55 AM EDT
This rifle seems to get rid of the AR's shortcomings and add all the good features of the AR and other rifles. I LOVE the side folding stock also.

Hopefully they will be available SOON
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