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Posted: 11/25/2005 1:50:00 PM EDT
In comparison to Bushmaster, How would you guys rate CMMG as a complete firearm for longevety and parts quality?
Would it be more along the lines of "LMT" to "CMT", or something like "RRA" to "DPMS" or maybe even "Olyimpic" to "Calvery".
I know each individual company has it's ups and downs, as far as quality, but kind of on an over all scale from 1to10 in an overall comparison? For example....Bushmaster 9? CMMG 7?
Thanks.....
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 1:59:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 1:59:51 PM EDT by eklikwhoa]
bushmaster hands down



but it hards to compare the newer guys to the ones that have been established
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 2:04:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
bushmaster hands down



but it hards to compare the newer guys to the ones that have been established



+1
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 3:14:34 PM EDT
Sorry for the hi-jack, but could someone tell me who makes parts for CMMG. I had heard that their parts were made by DPMS.

In a recent thread CMMG chimed in about having 1/7" chrome lined, gov't profile 20" barrels. When I asked CMMG who made their barrels I never got an answer.


As far as my thoughts on Bushmaster, I have purchased NUMEROUS guns from them over the last decade. Recently their prices have increased while their quality control has steadily decreased. I would take a Rock River Arms, Stag Arms (aka CMT), and Colt over a Bushmaster anyday of the week. I have hope for Bushmaster that once the demand for their guns lightens up a little the quality will go back up to what it once was....but for now I wouldn't buy one of their guns and I don't recommend them to students or friends.

My thoughts and experiences from a recent thread on the subject:


I use to be a big fan of Bushmaster, in the last 18 months I have purchased 4 Bushmasters, ALL of them had to go back to the factory for one problem or another.

Bushmaster's prices have gone up and their quality has gone down in the last couple years.

The wait for a Rock River Arms gun is longer, but the quality and attention to detail is much better.

Within the last few months I purchased a Rock River Arms and I am VERY happy with the purchase.


Here is an email I sent some friends / students when I got a few emails asking what I thought about Rock River Arms:


A few of you guys have asked me recently about the quality of Rock River Arms rifles. I rank them in the top 3 or 4 AR15 manufacturers.

Here is some more info from Pat Roger and Ken Campbell (Sheriff Capt. and Gunsite Adjunct Instructor).

Thought you guys would appriciate the second opinion:

www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5320&an=0&page=0#5320


While I like RRA better than Bushmaster (quality), especially when you factor in the price, there are a few things that RRA does to their guns that I don't like:

-Comes with a 2 stage trigger (I do not like 2 stage triggers on combat gun, seen too many of them go tit's up in classes, matches, and other training)
-Most models come with a HBAR profile barrel
-Most models come with a NON-Chrome lined barrel.

Now that I've pointed out the bad about RRA, I look at this as a blessing in disguise. If you order a RRA from Steve at www.adcofirearms.com he will credit you $65 if you request a standard trigger group. For less than $60 Steve will install a RRA Chrome Lined Barrel on the gun and can profile it to your specs. With the RRA I just ordered, I got a mid-length barrel (I LOVE mid-lengths....wish colt made them, because all my 6920's would have mid-lengths on them) I had Steve install a chrome lined barrel and the HBAR was too heavy and the Govt A2 profile was too thin, so I had him profile the barrel at .73 under the handguards (for reference, the A2 barrel is .75 from the front sight post forward and it's .64 under the handguards).




Take care and stay safe




____________________________________________________________________________________

Another gun you may want to take a long hard look at is Stag Arms (Stag / CMT is the same company....CMT Contentinal Machine and Tool is a sub-contractor for Colt and Rock River Arms and make most of their parts).

I compared a Stag Arms M4 to my Colt LE6920 M4 and was very impressed with the Stag M4. A Stag COMPLETE lower can be purchased from www.eaglefirearms.net for $215. A complete Stag M4 upper is $429.....That's a complete gun for $644, add the detachable carry handle for $60 more, and that puts you at $705. I would highly recommend the RRA or the Stag.

The Stag comes with a 6 position Mil-Spec carbine stock (ie. you can put a VLTOR or LMT stock on the Stag Mil-Spec tube), it has a 16" M4 barrel (with a perminately attached muzzle device (14.5" barrels have a perminaltely attached flash hider) you can't install most free floated rail systems, like LaRue, Daniel Defense, Knights, etc......I have 16" barrels on ALL my carbines), it has M4 feed ramps, it has a M4 profile chrome lined barrel, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc.


Just some food for thought.



I was so impressed with the quality and price of Stag Arms, that last week I purchased 2 Stag Arms carbines.

Get a Stag or RRA, I'm currently not recommending Bushmaster to my friends and students until the demand slows down and their quality comes back up. Generally Bushmaster is more expensive than RRA. I'm not bashing Bushmaster just stating an observation, I've purchased over 20 guns from them over the last 10 years. I use to be a huge Bushmaster fan, but as of late Bushmasters prices have gone up and their quality has gone down.

Link Posted: 11/25/2005 3:49:59 PM EDT
cmmg=dpms



notice their whole site offers dpms
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 3:54:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
cmmg=dpms



notice their whole site offers dpms



Most of their stuff such as barrels, uppers and lowers are not made by DPMS any longer.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 3:56:33 PM EDT

Originally Posted By giffmann:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
cmmg=dpms



notice their whole site offers dpms



Most of their stuff such as barrels, uppers and lowers are not made by DPMS any longer.




If you know something, speak!

Link Posted: 11/25/2005 3:56:53 PM EDT
I just bought a new Bushmaster in september and it's looks and shoots great, never had a jam...
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 3:57:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:

Originally Posted By giffmann:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
cmmg=dpms



notice their whole site offers dpms



Most of their stuff such as barrels, uppers and lowers are not made by DPMS any longer.




If you know something, speak!





+1
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 4:02:48 PM EDT
Personally, after being a HUGE Bushmaster fan, I now stick to CMMG products. Those guys set out to build high quality firearms. Period. And it shows. Best bunch of guys to deal with too.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 4:07:39 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 4:09:23 PM EDT by ShamusMcOI]

Originally Posted By USMC03:

Originally Posted By giffmann:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
cmmg=dpms



notice their whole site offers dpms



Most of their stuff such as barrels, uppers and lowers are not made by DPMS any longer.




If you know something, speak!






Maybe this hasn't crossed your mind yet, but there are many good reasons why manufacturers wouldn't want to release the names of who are making their parts (any parts that may not be being made in house). Or is that not obvious?

Ever asked Bushmaster who makes their bolt carriers? Their barrels? Their uppers?

And if so, did you get an answer?

Link Posted: 11/25/2005 4:14:43 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:


Ever asked Bushmaster who makes their bolt carriers? Their barrels? Their uppers?

And if so, did you get an answer?




I asked them and they told me.

However, I've seen some of their parts being made so it wouldn't have mattered if they hadn't.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 4:46:11 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:


Ever asked Bushmaster who makes their bolt carriers? Their barrels? Their uppers?

And if so, did you get an answer?




I asked them and they told me.

However, I've seen some of their parts being made so it wouldn't have mattered if they hadn't.




Yes, but I'm sure they aren't releasing that information to the general public.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 5:15:46 PM EDT
Hese is making parts for CMMG......There I said it so no one else would have to.


I notice in the gun industry like many other industries, when a sub-contractor has a bad reputation the parent company tries to be evasive about who their sub-contractors are......When the sub-contractor is known for quality, the parent company is usually quick to tell it's potential customers who their sub-contractors are.


Noveske is a prime example of what I have stated above....they advertise (on their website) that their uppers and lowers are made by CMT.

Just my experience, your milage may vary.




Link Posted: 11/25/2005 5:19:05 PM EDT
I was personally thinking the same about their bolt/carrier groups. I've E-mailed/called bushmaster several times, and yet have received a reply either way. To me if you were proud of your product, then you would do your best to reassure the customer with a valuable source of tech. information. I am in no way, being an pesamist about Bushmaster, I am simply trying to get a little more info. on CMMG's quality,service, and all around over all product in comparison to other major brands, that have been already established. We as consumers are pretty much the sound, mind, and body of an over all product view.....becouse we are the ones that are the critics. Our opinion matters, without us there would not be a product to sell. I'm simply contemplating the difference in the two.
Thanks for the opinions, and keep them flowing.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 5:37:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:
Hese is making parts for CMMG......There I said it so no one else would have to.


I notice in the gun industry like many other industries, when a sub-contractor has a bad reputation the parent company tries to be evasive about who their sub-contractors are......When the sub-contractor is known for quality, the parent company is usually quick to tell it's potential customers who their sub-contractors are.


Noveske is a prime example of what I have stated above....they advertise (on their website) that their uppers and lowers are made by CMT.

Just my experience, your milage may vary.








The difference here is simple.

With so many new companies jumping in the AR15 pool right now, it is obvious that most wouldn't want to divulge their resources, as it would let competitors (present and future) get a leg up on them. And this would be especially true if one had a high quality product.

I ask again, has anyone here (not in the firearms industry) asked Bushmaster who makes their barrels, bolt carriers or receivers?
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 5:49:59 PM EDT
Wasnt there a big debate couple months ago about some uppers that CMMG put out for a high price that didnt work worth a sh%t? People were selling them for $100 or more, less then what they bought them for just to get rid of them and advised people of the problems and to buy at own risk. Why do their guns cost as much as a colt or bushy?
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 5:55:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:

I ask again, has anyone here (not in the firearms industry) asked Bushmaster who makes their barrels, bolt carriers or receivers?




I have not and here is why: I have been purchasing NUMEROUS AR15 variants from Bushmaster for the last decade, and up until approximately 2 years ago they had an awesome product. Over the last couple years I have watched the quality of their product steadily decline.

Bushmaster had a reputation for quality. When you say Bushmaster you think "AR15 manufacturer".

When I think CMMG, I think parts distributer, not manufacturer. When I think of CMMG's quality, I think of the Giffman barrel group buy.

So I have not asked Bushmaster who makes their bolt, bolt carriers or receivers, because they had a great reputation as a quality firearms manufacturer. This is something that CMMG has not yet earned. I ask who makes their parts because I may be interested in purchasing items from them. I know they use to or still do have a buisness partnership with DMPS, and due to my past experiences I will NEVER purchase a single product from DMPS.

And so their is no confusion, I'm not trying to be a dick or start a flame war. I am interested in who makes the AR15 parts, barrels, etc. for CMMG. If it's something that can't be announced publically, cool...but I would never purchase products from them until they had a well earned reputation for a qulaity product.....Something that can take many years to build.

Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:09:05 PM EDT
I love my CMMG rifle -it,s built like a brick dodo house

The fit is Excellent -the finish is Excellent and it has worked Perfectly.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:22:49 PM EDT
After the debacle on the Giffmann Barrel by CMMG I won't support them for one minute. They didn't back up their product for a second. Not only couldn't they measure the gas port distance correctly, several of their barrels have had tight chamber issues.

When ADCO dumps all their CMMG built Giffmann Barrels at $100 a pop, something is up, and it ain't good.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:53:08 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 7:53:37 PM EDT by glazer1972]
I bought a midlength upper from them because I wanted 1:7 twist A2 specs with a chrome lined bore. I have not had a chance to shoot it yet but it looks like a quality upper.
Link Posted: 11/25/2005 7:56:35 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 7:58:05 PM EDT by ian187]

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:
I ask again, has anyone here (not in the firearms industry) asked Bushmaster who makes their barrels, bolt carriers or receivers?



Here's a little nugget to roll over in your mind, Shartimus, with the exception of the barrels, Bushmaster and DPMS use the exact same subs.


Link Posted: 11/25/2005 9:03:57 PM EDT
The barrels are finshed in house I know for sure, the crome lining is done by US crome i believe, there upperrs I have no clue,they are t marked and the feed ramp are cut after assymbly. there buttstocks are like the Cavarms ones. I just know they are top notch guns,the fit and finish on the my upper is awsome.

I dont know what happend with the giffman barrel buy.

Link Posted: 11/25/2005 10:18:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2005 10:19:58 PM EDT by JasonC]

Originally Posted By JBowles:
The barrels are finshed in house I know for sure, the crome lining is done by US crome i believe, there upperrs I have no clue,they are t marked and the feed ramp are cut after assymbly. there buttstocks are like the Cavarms ones. I just know they are top notch guns,the fit and finish on the my upper is awsome.

I dont know what happend with the giffman barrel buy.




My thoughts exactly. I really like my CMMG 14.7 lightweight. The fit and finish is super. I would buy another bbl. from them.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 4:14:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:
I ask again, has anyone here (not in the firearms industry) asked Bushmaster who makes their barrels, bolt carriers or receivers?



Here's a little nugget to roll over in your mind, Shartimus, with the exception of the barrels, Bushmaster and DPMS use the exact same subs.







if this is true then bushmaster gets theres from the top of the barrel and dpms gets whats left over. i own both and comparing the two the dpms one looks like it was made wiht the left over metal swept off the floor
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 4:15:56 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:

I ask again, has anyone here (not in the firearms industry) asked Bushmaster who makes their barrels, bolt carriers or receivers?




I have not and here is why: I have been purchasing NUMEROUS AR15 variants from Bushmaster for the last decade, and up until approximately 2 years ago they had an awesome product. Over the last couple years I have watched the quality of their product steadily decline.

Bushmaster had a reputation for quality. When you say Bushmaster you think "AR15 manufacturer".

When I think CMMG, I think parts distributer, not manufacturer. When I think of CMMG's quality, I think of the Giffman barrel group buy.

So I have not asked Bushmaster who makes their bolt, bolt carriers or receivers, because they had a great reputation as a quality firearms manufacturer. This is something that CMMG has not yet earned. I ask who makes their parts because I may be interested in purchasing items from them. I know they use to or still do have a buisness partnership with DMPS, and due to my past experiences I will NEVER purchase a single product from DMPS.

And so their is no confusion, I'm not trying to be a dick or start a flame war. I am interested in who makes the AR15 parts, barrels, etc. for CMMG. If it's something that can't be announced publically, cool...but I would never purchase products from them until they had a well earned reputation for a qulaity product.....Something that can take many years to build.





after the whole incident i dont see them as an option
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 4:58:25 AM EDT

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:
I ask again, has anyone here (not in the firearms industry) asked Bushmaster who makes their barrels, bolt carriers or receivers?



Here's a little nugget to roll over in your mind, Shartimus, with the exception of the barrels, Bushmaster and DPMS use the exact same subs.






Wow ian, your amazing wit graces us once again huh? Shartimus? You sir are a genius.

And yes, I know that DPMS and Bushmaster use the same subs. Not big news to me. Care to divulge who those subs are though?

Link Posted: 11/26/2005 5:55:08 AM EDT
Okay, while we are on the subject, who makes CMMG's barrels? They don't seem to be DPMS because they have features DPMS just does not offer. Anyone know? By the way, my CMMG upper works just fine.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 5:59:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By LoadedDrum:
Okay, while we are on the subject, who makes CMMG's barrels? They don't seem to be DPMS because they have features DPMS just does not offer. Anyone know? By the way, my CMMG upper works just fine.





any manufacture can turn a barrel that is not usually offered, for example.... bushmaster's 1x7 barrels
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 8:27:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/26/2005 8:32:18 AM EDT by JBowles]
CMMG's barrels are they're own.
No one makes them for them, but most of the barrel making processe is not done in house.
They buy the blanks, I dont know who does the cambering and contoring it my be them or someone else, its then sent to the cromer, then back to CMMG for finishing , assymbly and QC testiing.

Now with all the new barrel veritions they have now Im thinking they have started turning the barrels down them selves, I know they Made there retail area of the shop 1/2 the size of what is was before giving them more room for what ever,

­


And I could Care less about who makes there barrels be it them or a sub contractor, I just know they are damn fine barrels, hell damn fine guns, and Jeff and John are the best around.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 11:18:24 AM EDT
Better watch out, shamus will wait for you outside of a 7-11 and beat you up for arguing.

Sound familiar shame?

After the giffman barrel buy i dont see myself buying from them, alot of people were upset over that and i would of too. Their stuff is too high priced anyway, rather get a colt.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 12:14:06 PM EDT

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:

Originally Posted By ian187:

Originally Posted By ShamusMcOI:
I ask again, has anyone here (not in the firearms industry) asked Bushmaster who makes their barrels, bolt carriers or receivers?



Here's a little nugget to roll over in your mind, Shartimus, with the exception of the barrels, Bushmaster and DPMS use the exact same subs.






Wow ian, your amazing wit graces us once again huh? Shartimus? You sir are a genius.

And yes, I know that DPMS and Bushmaster use the same subs. Not big news to me. Care to divulge who those subs are though?




That's funny, you KNOW they use the same subs but you don't KNOW who they are.

Link Posted: 11/26/2005 12:15:01 PM EDT

Originally Posted By beltfedMGs:
Better watch out, shamus will wait for you outside of a 7-11 and beat you up for arguing.

Sound familiar shame?




Will the rest of his skin head friends be there with him?

Link Posted: 11/26/2005 4:48:43 PM EDT
man, fuck nazi boneheads.

I bought a CMMG A4 upper, and I have a few observations. The barrel is beautiful. Much better than the Bushmaster barrels I've shot and worked on. The upper is teflon coated, like a DPMS upper. Lockup with a RRA lower was loose, had to use an o-ring on the front lug to stop the rattle. The charging handle was garbage; had a 'crackle' finish and felt gritty when drawing the bolt back. The bolt is ok, the bolt carrier seemed ok. It was in the 'enhanced' RRA pattern (shrouded firing pin, chromed bolt recess) but definately not RRA. After firing, the carbon pattern suggested a leaky gas key, but it's staked and tight. I did notice some red loctite leaking maybe? or some red fluid that looked like locktite. Anyhow, there was carbon on the buffer face. Function was perfect for about 1000 rounds. Felt like the rifle *averaged* 4 MOA over the course of the day, but the bore is still breaking in. Overall I'm happy.

I bought a RRA charing handle and a one-piece gas ring, going to see how it shoots again. If I had to do it all over I would have bought the CMMG barrel and put it on a RRA or CMT upper. I'm going to shoot it again tomorrow after a highpower match, see what the barrel can do with some handloads, a sling, and a jacket. I'm hoping for 3-4 MOA. As I undestand it, under 5 MOA is under mil-spec? I guess handloads are cheating though.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:38:49 PM EDT

Originally Posted By JBowles:
CMMG's barrels are they're own.
No one makes them for them, but most of the barrel making processe is not done in house.
They buy the blanks, I dont know who does the cambering and contoring it my be them or someone else, its then sent to the cromer, then back to CMMG for finishing , assymbly and QC testiing.

Now with all the new barrel veritions they have now Im thinking they have started turning the barrels down them selves, I know they Made there retail area of the shop 1/2 the size of what is was before giving them more room for what ever,

And I could Care less about who makes there barrels be it them or a sub contractor, I just know they are damn fine barrels, hell damn fine guns, and Jeff and John are the best around.



Good to know.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 6:40:51 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:
man, fuck nazi boneheads.

I bought a CMMG A4 upper, and I have a few observations. The barrel is beautiful. Much better than the Bushmaster barrels I've shot and worked on. The upper is teflon coated, like a DPMS upper. Lockup with a RRA lower was loose, had to use an o-ring on the front lug to stop the rattle. The charging handle was garbage; had a 'crackle' finish and felt gritty when drawing the bolt back. The bolt is ok, the bolt carrier seemed ok. It was in the 'enhanced' RRA pattern (shrouded firing pin, chromed bolt recess) but definately not RRA. After firing, the carbon pattern suggested a leaky gas key, but it's staked and tight. I did notice some red loctite leaking maybe? or some red fluid that looked like locktite. Anyhow, there was carbon on the buffer face. Function was perfect for about 1000 rounds. Felt like the rifle *averaged* 4 MOA over the course of the day, but the bore is still breaking in. Overall I'm happy.

I bought a RRA charing handle and a one-piece gas ring, going to see how it shoots again. If I had to do it all over I would have bought the CMMG barrel and put it on a RRA or CMT upper. I'm going to shoot it again tomorrow after a highpower match, see what the barrel can do with some handloads, a sling, and a jacket. I'm hoping for 3-4 MOA. As I undestand it, under 5 MOA is under mil-spec? I guess handloads are cheating though.



I had similar observations on the charging handle. I think maybe next time around I will buy a CMMG barrel and send it to Steve at Adco to build up with all the goodies that even CMMG does not offer as an option.
Link Posted: 11/26/2005 7:24:09 PM EDT
Last time I talked to CMMG they told me their barrels were made by Shaw, that was 18 months ago.



Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:23:34 AM EDT
I suggest just buying what your comfortable with. I am comfortable with Bushmaster so I buy almost all of my barrels for them, recently I purchased a 20" govt barrel from bushy that seems to be the pick-of-the-litter compared to ANY ar15 chrome lined barrel I have ever seen in the accuracy department.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:33:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 7:34:43 AM EDT by ColtRifle]
I don't own a CMMG rifle, however, I have a CMMG M4 profile, 1/7 twist, chrome lined barrel on my Colt. I have been very happy with it. Fit and finish are as good as the Colt barrel. I have had three jams in it vs none in the Colt. However, the jams were two rounds of Wolf (and I checked one of the rounds and it was definately out of spec...didn't look at the other round.). The third jam was a personal reload. All the rounds got stuck in the chamber. Whacked the buttstock on the ground and they all came out. I plan to check the chamber with a gauge when I get a chance but at the moment I'm not worried about it. I practice with cheap ammo but carry it with good Q3131A.

I'm happy with the barrel. All the malfunctions are attributable to the ammo and I can't say that the barrel caused any of the malfunctions.


I would rather have a Colt barrel because I really like Colt products but the same Colt barrel like I want would be almost $400 and the CMMG barrel was $200.

YMMV
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:46:45 AM EDT
I just had a novel idea. For those of you who don't wan't their upper because you don't know who made it, how about you buy a STAG upper with feedramps, a STAG bold assembly, and a CMMG barrel of your choice. Best of both worlds?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 1:03:38 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
I just had a novel idea. For those of you who don't wan't their upper because you don't know who made it, how about you buy a STAG upper with feedramps, a STAG bold assembly, and a CMMG barrel of your choice. Best of both worlds?




why not just buy a complete cmt upper? complete colt upper?.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 3:34:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:

Originally Posted By Couch-Commando:
I just had a novel idea. For those of you who don't wan't their upper because you don't know who made it, how about you buy a STAG upper with feedramps, a STAG bold assembly, and a CMMG barrel of your choice. Best of both worlds?




why not just buy a complete cmt upper? complete colt upper?.



cmt/stag doesn't offer 1 in 7", and colt costs too much for what you get.

Bravo Company offers 1:7 M4 and A4 pattern uppers, but they're backordered. The barrels that CMMG and Bravo offer may be extremely similar if they are both sourcing through ER Shaw.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 4:53:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 4:55:28 PM EDT by PythonGuy]
I just received my CMMG upper with the lightweight 14.7" barrel. I'm no armorer, but the fit on a Bushmaster lower is really tight, no rattle or looseness at all. The barrel is 4150 steel, mp tested with a 1:7 twist, I can't tell who makes the bolt but it seems heavier then the Bushmaster bolt, the charge handle is adequate. It looks like it is made as well as the Bushmaster or the RRA as far as fit and finish, but I am no expert. The upper does have a lifetime warranty from CMMG, and the owners seem like standup guys. All the speculation and past history on this thread is all well and good, but I'd like to read the opinion of a certified expert doing actual industry standard testing on the current offerings in order to make an educated determination. I am putting a IOR 4x Scope on it which hasn't come yet, but I will see how the accuracy compares with the original upper, and an RRA rifle that I shoot regularly. I think that, as I have read others post on this forum, that the major brands of AR's and components made these days are mostly excellent quality that exceed the need of the shooter, we all still seem to want a gun made out of "adamantium" or some perfect unbreakable metal, we all know it is really unobtainium.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:33:20 PM EDT
My CMMG midlength upper is also a very tight fit to my RRA Lower.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 6:46:40 PM EDT
A few years back I got a CMMG upper. I had some concerns and CMMG directed me to contact DPMS who served me up a plate of BS. I got ADCO to fix the situation. Later, I had more concerns and contacted DPMS who could not verify one way or the other what they had made.

If CMMG has gotten away from DPMS and is selling a product they can take responsibility for themselves then they should be better off.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:08:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:

cmt/stag doesn't offer 1 in 7", and colt costs too much for what you get.



They have these www.grtactical.com/cmt.htm#14.5


Also does anybody have a link to the giffman barell buy troubles? Was it Giffmans problem or the uppers they bought problem?
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 7:09:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 7:10:15 PM EDT by PythonGuy]
CMMG reads these forums, lets hope they see this and step up to the plate and answer a few questions. When I bought my upper I spoke to Jeff and John and was told the upper and its parts were NOT made by DPMS and that they make the barrels themselves, do the machining, chroming and testing and assemble the upper. They had a long relationship with DPMS but they do things on their own now. Any experts and/or CMMG comments? The rest of us are just guessing, but I like my upper, the barrel is super and the flat top has T-marks, great finish and blends in perfectly with the Bushmaster lower I mated it with. There aren't many parts on an upper, if the barrel and receiver are top notch, and the bolt and carrier made well, can I really complain if the charging handle could be more solid? If it breaks CMMG would replace it, I'm just shooting at the local ranges, not in Iraq.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:11:42 PM EDT
Python,

I agree, totally. That's my same train of thought. Right now, there have been 47 replys to the post/thread. Where is a response from "CMMG", backing their product? Just courious, I'm still torn between both worlds. The information given, has been great! But like I said, CMMG can stand up, at any time and defend what's theirs. I've taken consideration on each and every reply. You guys are great!! So much detail, so much info. I can't seem to get enough!he J/K!
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:19:12 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/27/2005 8:19:46 PM EDT by THellURider]

Originally Posted By jollyroger:

Originally Posted By warren-hpf:

cmt/stag doesn't offer 1 in 7", and colt costs too much for what you get.



They have these www.grtactical.com/cmt.htm#14.5


Also does anybody have a link to the giffman barell buy troubles? Was it Giffmans problem or the uppers they bought problem?



The problems were with the barrels themselves made by CMMG. The tight chamber issue was kinda swept under the rug but the gas port issue is WELL documented.
Link Posted: 11/27/2005 8:41:25 PM EDT

Originally Posted By PythonGuy:
CMMG reads these forums, lets hope they see this and step up to the plate and answer a few questions. When I bought my upper I spoke to Jeff and John and was told the upper and its parts were NOT made by DPMS and that they make the barrels themselves, do the machining, chroming and testing and assemble the upper. They had a long relationship with DPMS but they do things on their own now. Any experts and/or CMMG comments? The rest of us are just guessing, but I like my upper, the barrel is super and the flat top has T-marks, great finish and blends in perfectly with the Bushmaster lower I mated it with. There aren't many parts on an upper, if the barrel and receiver are top notch, and the bolt and carrier made well, can I really complain if the charging handle could be more solid? If it breaks CMMG would replace it, I'm just shooting at the local ranges, not in Iraq.


+1

Hopefully CMMG will see this tread soon, it looks like the only board activity they have had in the last couple of days has been bumping EE ads.
Link Posted: 11/28/2005 4:28:47 AM EDT
As I stated earlier my CMMG rifle is Perfect in every way -I do not care who manufactured the barrel / upper or lower all I know is it looks and works Better then ANY AR rifle I have ever owned.,
Plus the guys at CMMG are GREAT to deal with -Very Helpful and willing to Help in any way
I would give them a 10 for customer service and a 10 for rifle Quality -

Bushmaster builds a OK rifle ( rattle trap )( scratchs ) ( Damaged parts )-
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