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Posted: 10/15/2005 7:28:03 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2005 1:27:01 PM EDT by mattld]
Here she is bare as bones. Any suggestions for optics, irons, etc?









Thanks in advance.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 8:18:06 AM EDT
For the rear sight, a KAC 600m.

For optics, follow my thinking, instead of a 1-4 variable or a 4X ACOG, go with two of them, both compact, a M3 Aimpoint 2MOA and a 3-9 MR/T TMR M3, both on LaRue Tactical or ARMS mounts.
That's the real beauty of these QD mounts, the ability to switch optics quickly and easily without having to worry about weapon/optic zeros.
My 20" 13.2LT gov profile (TA31F & NSX 3.5-15X50) and my 16" SS LMT MRP (Aimpoint M3/3X & MR/T M3 3-9 TMR) setups both have multiple optics options now besides the Troy and KAC iron sights.

Beautiful rifle, by the way!
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 8:36:37 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2005 8:37:02 AM EDT by mattld]

Originally Posted By edwin907:
For the rear sight, a KAC 600m.

For optics, follow my thinking, instead of a 1-4 variable or a 4X ACOG, go with two of them, both compact, a M3 Aimpoint 2MOA and a 3-9 MR/T TMR M3, both on LaRue Tactical or ARMS mounts.
That's the real beauty of these QD mounts, the ability to switch optics quickly and easily without having to worry about weapon/optic zeros.
My 20" 13.2LT gov profile (TA31F & NSX 3.5-15X50) and my 16" SS LMT MRP (Aimpoint M3/3X & MR/T M3 3-9 TMR) setups both have multiple optics options now besides the Troy and KAC iron sights.

Beautiful rifle, by the way!


Yeah I was thinking the KAC 600 or Troy BUIS.

As for an optic I was originally thinking an Aimpoint ML3 and 3x combo, but the more Isee these low-variable optics the more I like 'em. Choices, I know.....

Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 8:42:38 AM EDT
Forgot the requisite specs...

Upper
CMT M4-cut upper with Denny's Recon SS barrel in 1:7 with M4 feedramps painted in DuraCoat Coyote Brown
RRA upper parts (foward assist, ejection port door, etc)
LMT F-stamped front sight post
Daniel Defense 12.0 FSPM forend
Vortex G6A2 flash suppressor

No internals yet except matching CMT bolt for the barrel....

Lower
Lauer Lower
CMT Lower Parts Kit
McCormick 2-stage trigger with KNS pins
MagPul enhanced trigger guard
MagPul MIAD in CB (still waiting on 123 battery core)
MagPul M93B in CB with single point sling loop

Still no buffer or spring....

All in all it has taken a while but the more it nears completion the more I like it. There is nothing like having a vision then slowly watching it develope over time...

Link Posted: 10/15/2005 9:14:15 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2005 11:07:43 AM EDT by edwin907]

Originally Posted By mattld:
Yeah I was thinking the KAC 600 or Troy BUIS.

As for an optic I was originally thinking an Aimpoint ML3 and 3x combo, but the more I see these low-variable optics the more I like 'em. Choices, I know.....

Thanks.



I've haven't had the opportunity to look through a Shortdot, but have seen a few other 1.?-4X low power variables, and for the most part, I'd much much rather have my Aimpoint 2MOA for close range, and the 3X on the flip up mount for more precision, or just go with my TA31F for a do it all optic with ranging out to 600 yards.

But to me, that's the purpose of these QD return to zero LT & ARMS mounts, to be able to rapidly mount the dedicated long range optic if needed or desired.

Such as my 20" shown below, finally complete with Pete's Legal Transfers RRA lower (put my girlfriend's dissy back together!). Flip the LT levers, remove the TA31F, place the SPR/NSX on the receiver, flip the LT levers, and you're done.

Link Posted: 10/15/2005 11:59:08 AM EDT
Short Dot



R
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 12:53:58 PM EDT
I'm definately interested in hearing some more opinions as far as optics go. I'm having a tough time deciding between a NSX 2.5x10 or simply adding an Aimpoint 3X magnifier to my 2 MOA M3. Obviously each setup has advantages and disadvantages, depending on the intended purpose. I'm leaning toward the NSX with the aimpoint as an optional optic...
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 1:01:51 PM EDT
matech is good too for the buis
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 2:12:51 PM EDT
What rail covers are going to match best? KAC, Tango?

Or are you going to use a verticle grip and skip the rail covers, a CQd grip like I have on my A2 would be great, on it I don't bother with rail covers even though I have every combination of TD ones cut for the Samson rail.

QD (KAC or MI) sling mounts? I'm happy with both, one for the rail would be perfect.

Ambi safety & mag release? I just put both on the above mentioned RRA ("US PROPERTY") lower, but I use a rifle left handed so it's a must for me.

CMT M16 bolt carrier?

Of course a 962 Turbohead weaponlight is a must, this is a Recon rifle, right?



Link Posted: 10/15/2005 3:01:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By edwin907:
What rail covers are going to match best? KAC, Tango?

Or are you going to use a verticle grip and skip the rail covers, a CQd grip like I have on my A2 would be great, on it I don't bother with rail covers even though I have every combination of TD ones cut for the Samson rail.

QD (KAC or MI) sling mounts? I'm happy with both, one for the rail would be perfect.

Ambi safety & mag release? I just put both on the above mentioned RRA ("US PROPERTY") lower, but I use a rifle left handed so it's a must for me.

CMT M16 bolt carrier?

Of course a 962 Turbohead weaponlight is a must, this is a Recon rifle, right?





What's with all these questions????

Rail covers? Gonna try the two shades of TD and see what works best, and some MagPul ladder panels in CB here and there.

Vertical Grip? Still deciding if I want one or not. If I do it will be a TD model but I dunno what color.

Sling? A Specter or Wilderness sling on the single point loop on the MagPul.

No ambi-safety and no extended magazine release. I like my ARs stock in that area. Although damn, that safety in the CMT parts kit was TIGHT. I had to really crank down on that safety a few times. Some combo of the spring and that safety / pin was tough stuff.

Bolt and Carrier? I already have a CMT bolt and I am thinking just a stock CMT carrier. I don't need anything special there.

Weaponlight? I'd like to have one. I have a M962C on my M4 but I want to try to keep this Recce a bit lighter than that (emphasis on try).

Oh and an PRI gasbuster charging handle is on its way. Will compliment the possible Troy suppressor down the road.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 4:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2005 4:19:24 PM EDT by Duffy]
TA31F and spend the rest on training
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 4:26:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:
TA31F and spend the rest on training


You and your ACOGs....

I am thinking of a TA01NSN to start out with to see if I like it before I spend a bit more on one of the BAC models. But that is all for my M4.

This gun is getting a low-variable optic or Aimpoint / 3x combo.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 4:33:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2005 4:34:29 PM EDT by Duffy]
Let me know if you are going to the 3x route. I did, and didn't like it, so now you can get a 3x magnifer (mine) at a special discount
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 4:37:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:
Let me know if you are going to the 3x route. I did, and didn't like it, so now you can get a 3x magnifer (mine) at a special discount


Ok, what was wrong with it that you didn't like it??
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 4:40:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/15/2005 4:41:12 PM EDT by Duffy]
Well me and my ACOGs....I don't like its FOV.
I have an M2, ML2 and an EOTech, I so rarely use them I'm keeping the NV compatible ones for my PVS14, and the ML2 on another weapon that has no optics otherwise, I prefer my ACOGs to all of them, with or without the 3x magnifier (spoiled by the ACOGs )
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 5:39:09 PM EDT
I hate to hijack the thread and ask for something like a mission statement or your expectations for the gun or what roll this gun will fill.......But......

How can anyone really make a recommendation on optics or a BUIS without first knowing what type of shooting you plan on doing with the gun (ie. distances, estimated target sizes, rate of fire, type of movement involved, level of accuracy needed / expected, etc).



Very nice looking gun so far......


Give us some pacticulars on the mission statement the gun, hopefully some good info can be passed, and you can make an educated decision on what optic would be best optic to fill your mission requirement.



Take care and stay safe

Link Posted: 10/15/2005 5:46:55 PM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:
I hate to hijack the thread and ask for something like a mission statement or your expectations for the gun or what roll this gun will fill.......But......

How can anyone really make a recommendation on optics or a BUIS without first knowing what type of shooting you plan on doing with the gun (ie. distances, estimated target sizes, rate of fire, type of movement involved, level of accuracy needed / expected, etc).

Very nice looking gun so far......

Give us some pacticulars on the mission statement the gun, hopefully some good info can be passed, and you can make an educated decision on what optic would be best optic to fill your mission requirement.

Take care and stay safe



Here's what I'm expecting.

This will not be used a a move and shoot weapon like my M4 is.

The shooting I plan to do with this will emcompass anywhere from 50 - 300 yards. I would like to shoot moslty prone and from a bipod. Maybe every now and then standing up. I have the ability to shoot farther than that do to where I live but I don't plan on spending a small fortune one a high variable optic.

As I see it, an Aimpoint ML3 with a 3x or a low-variable power optic should do the trick.

The BUIS is mostly for emergnecies, like my Aimpoint exploding or say ShortDot catching fire. In either case the type of BUIS is not an issue, I just want a dependable one to have just in case.

As for targets, rate of fire, and accuracy I will say this. Targets will probably be items like steel plates, gallon jugs, and the occasional paper target. Rate of fire will be slow, timed shots. I am not putting a Beta on this for good reason. Although I would not rule out emptying a magazine as fast as possible every now and then. And for accuracy I am expecting less than MOA out to at least 200 with this barrel. Denny's SS barrel in 1:7 should be able to do this if I keep my end of the bargain.

That's all I can think of.

Was that a good mission statement?
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 6:05:04 PM EDT
What's the function of the KNS pins? And are the KNS pins those two "screw looking" things that are connected to each other?
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 6:08:18 PM EDT
The KNS pins replace the standard pins, they will not "walk" or spin inside the pin holes.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 6:19:03 PM EDT
Troy BUIS is the best I've yet to encounter.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 6:37:45 PM EDT
Give it to me.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 8:51:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:
What's the function of the KNS pins? And are the KNS pins those two "screw looking" things that are connected to each other?


Yeah.

In retrospec I do not actually "need" them but Denny had a deal on the trigger and those pins so I got them. The little bit of extra insurance is worth it I figure.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 9:17:18 PM EDT
Nice build.

An ACOG or mid range Leupold or NightForce scope on Larue ACOG/ SPR mount would be nice.
Either a Troy or Matech BUIS.
Harris bipod.
Wolff extractor spring and Magpul magazine followers.
That's about it and any sling of your choice with rail mounted sling mount.

I've been building my mid-length project carbine since March, all I need is the barrel which I'm either going with a 16" Noveske mid-weight or Denny's Operator steel barrels.

I currently have a LMT Defender 2000 16" M4 carbine and a Colt M16A2 clone rifle.
Link Posted: 10/15/2005 9:41:02 PM EDT
If you don't plan on any CQB I think the NSN ACOG would be a fine choice. I like the eye relief of the 3.5 power ACOG's myself but I needed a 1-600m scope and at short range the extra eye relief and BAC worked for me.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 5:02:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:
Here's what I'm expecting.

This will not be used a a move and shoot weapon like my M4 is.

The shooting I plan to do with this will emcompass anywhere from 50 - 300 yards. I would like to shoot moslty prone and from a bipod. Maybe every now and then standing up. I have the ability to shoot farther than that do to where I live but I don't plan on spending a small fortune one a high variable optic.

As I see it, an Aimpoint ML3 with a 3x or a low-variable power optic should do the trick.

The BUIS is mostly for emergnecies, like my Aimpoint exploding or say ShortDot catching fire. In either case the type of BUIS is not an issue, I just want a dependable one to have just in case.

As for targets, rate of fire, and accuracy I will say this. Targets will probably be items like steel plates, gallon jugs, and the occasional paper target. Rate of fire will be slow, timed shots. I am not putting a Beta on this for good reason. Although I would not rule out emptying a magazine as fast as possible every now and then. And for accuracy I am expecting less than MOA out to at least 200 with this barrel. Denny's SS barrel in 1:7 should be able to do this if I keep my end of the bargain.

That's all I can think of.

Was that a good mission statement?



Matt,

Yeah, that what I was wanting.

I have noticed here and on several other boards lately that guys are building highly accurate AR15's, and then wanting to put low powered optics on the gun. If I'm going to drop some major $$$ on a good barrel and build a gun that has the potential for a lot of accuracy I don't want my accuracy to be limited due to my optics selection. Keep in mind that you can't hit what you can't see.

You stated that you already have a "CQB" gun with an Aimpoint on it......So why in the world would you want to put an Aimpoint on this gun that has soooo much potential for great accuracy at longer distances???

I shoot at local (monthly) carbine matches, as I've found these matches to be a good "test bed" for guns and gear. Each match has at least 4 stages. One stage will ALWAYS involve some kind of CQB shooting scenario, one stage will ALWAYS have targets setup at 300 - 450 yards on a range that has uneven terrain (you can get low, but you can't always get in a good stable prone position), and one stage always a 200 yard "Standards" stage which involves shooting 3 cardboard targets that are all stapled together from the standing, kneeling, sitting, and prone positions.

The reason that I mention this is because in real life you never know how far your target is going to be away from you, or how close he will be to you, and every optic has it's pros and cons. As you can see with an Aimpoint you would have an advantage on some stages and be at an extreem disadvantage on other stages, the same goes for ACOGs, and the low powered 1-4x and 1,5-5x scopes have some advantages in this type of matches / shooting situations.

I've taken an Aimpoint equiped M4 and consistantly hit man sized targets out to 300 yards. At these same matches I use a 4x TA31 ACOG out to 450 yards. All of my Aimpoints and all of my ACOGs are mounted on guns that have stock chrome lined 16" gov't profile mid-length or M4 barrels.

There are targets in the 200 to 450 range, where I find the 4x ACOG to be somewhat limiting (ie. you can see the target, but can't tell if you are aiming in the "A" zone or "B" zone of the target). This really becomes a factor when you have a target in the 200 to 300 yard range and half the target is covered (ie. your "A" zone is half the size it normally is).

In my opinion the Aimpoint is a good CQB / General Purpose optic and the ACOG is a good General Purpose optic (but is somewhat limiting for CQB shooting). And the variable powered 1-4x and 1.5-5x scopes fill the gap between the Aimpoint and the ACOG. But I wouldn't consider putting an Aimpoint, ACOG, or a low powered variable scope (1-4x or 1.5-5x) on a semi-precision or precision rifle/carbine as they are too limiting (ie. not enough power). On a rig that I'm wanting to do some precision work with, I would want a variable scope that was light, compact, with an illuminated reticle, and had a low end setting in the 2x to 3x range and a high end setting in the 9x to 10x range.

To illustrate my point, try this exercise. If you can get a hold of a 3-9x, 3.5-10, or simular scope (it doesn't have to be a tactical scope, just a quality scope), mount it on the gun pictured above. Go to the range and set up 3 IPSC style (man sized silhouette) targets side by side at varying distances from 100 to 300 yards. Put an aiming dot on all 3 targets (a small red, orange, black, or white dot).

From the prone position shoot at the first aiming dot (5 shot group) with the scope on the lowest power. Then move the scope up to 4x and shoot a 5 shot group at the aiming dot on the second target. Then move the scope up to the max power (9x - 10x) and shoot a group on the third target. The reason that I recommend shooting the second target with the scope on 4x is this would show you what shooting with the ACOG would be like.

You will notice that with the scope on the low power you have a wider field of view and you can get your shots off much more quickly, and with the scope on high power you are a slower but are able to get much more precise shots. We can only hit objects consistantly that we can see clearly.

Just my opinion, but if I were going to scope your rifle (keeping your mission statement in mind) I would go with something along the lines of the Nightforce 2.5-10x24 (about the same size and shape as the S&B Short dot, but with a lot more magnification) or the Leupold 3-9x36 Mark 4 MR/T 30mm with M3 knobs and illuminated reticle.....and I would put the scope in a LaRue mount with the J-Point mount/ring. With the J-Point you would be as quick on targets at CQB distances as you would with an Aimpoint or EO Tech. The variable power would give you the ability to keep it on the low end for shooting multiple targets fast at 100 -300 yards, or if you need a little more precision without sacraficing too much speed you could move it up to 4x - 6x, or if you needed a more precise shot or found yourself shooting at a target over 300 yards, you have to ability to up the power to 9x - 10x. With a set up like this, you would have a gun that is capable of efficiently shooting from 0 - 600+ yards.


As far as back up iron sights, I would go with the Troy Induustry. The LaRue mount would give you the ability to get the scope off the gun quickly.....and if you zero the irons in at 50 yards, you would have to ability to hit targets from point blank range to 250 yards without worrying about hold over. Just my .02.....your milage may vary.

Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:08:48 AM EDT
Thanks for the info. I will take it all into consideration.

But I must admit that the reason I went with the standard front sight post is that I had imagined using an Aimpoint with it.

And like I mentioned, while I will have the ability to shoot out to 300 or more yards I would rarely do so unless I had to as that is a long way to walk to set up targets, etc.

That's why I was originally imagining a low-power variable optics or an Aimpoint with a 3x behind it. Something that will be useable out to 100 accurately with the ability to increase that to 200 with the 3x (or 4x on a Short Dot).

And while I don't usually think 1 gun needs two optics I think this gun might make an exception in my mind. On the one hand I want something for CQB out to about 175-200 yards. On the other hand you are right, this gun has potential and the only way to get that potential is with a high-power optic.

Should I followed the infamous words of ARFCOM and eventually get both?

Also I never got your opinion on the Aimpoint with the 3x combo. You liking that set-up?
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:10:42 AM EDT
nightforce!
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:23:04 AM EDT

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
nightforce!


I swear all of yall are trying to making me go broke.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:26:06 AM EDT
Matt...check my frustration is the DMR optic thread....
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:26:32 AM EDT
This.....



Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:26:42 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:

Originally Posted By eklikwhoa:
nightforce!


I swear all of yall are trying to making me go broke.





you knew what you were getting yourself into from day one!
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:27:13 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:
Also I never got your opinion on the Aimpoint with the 3x combo. You liking that set-up?




I don't have a 3x, for the same reason that Duffy stated above. Aimpoints and ACOGs


If you are thinking about keeping it on the low end (magnification), you are considering the Aimpoint with the 3x magnifier, take a HARD LOOK at the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x scope. Awesome little scope!!!



Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:29:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:

Should I followed the infamous words of ARFCOM and eventually get both?




Both, is a heck of a lot of fun.







Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:30:21 AM EDT

Originally Posted By USMC03:

Originally Posted By mattld:
Also I never got your opinion on the Aimpoint with the 3x combo. You liking that set-up?




I don't have a 3x, for the same reason that Duffy stated above. Aimpoints and ACOGs


If you are thinking about keeping it on the low end (magnification), you are considering the Aimpoint with the 3x magnifier, take a HARD LOOK at the Trijicon Accupoint 1-4x scope. Awesome little scope!!!





Will do.

Also another thing. How do you feel about 2 optics for one gun? By that I mean a low-power optic or Aimpoint and a high-power optic?

I used to think that one gun needed one optic, but the more I think about it Edwin has a point, what's the point of limiting the rifle to only one application? With the advent of RTZ levers on our mounts, the roles of single ARs should increase incredeibly.

Would you recommend such a set up?
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:41:17 AM EDT
I'd just put the other scope setup on another rifle, so both scopes have nice homes to call their own and everyone is happy
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 6:49:35 AM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:
Will do.

Also another thing. How do you feel about 2 optics for one gun? By that I mean a low-power optic or Aimpoint and a high-power optic?

I used to think that one gun needed one optic, but the more I think about it Edwin has a point, what's the point of limiting the rifle to only one application? With the advent of RTZ levers on our mounts, the roles of single ARs should increase incredeibly.

Would you recommend such a set up?




I over looked that you had a Front Sight Base on the gun. This is something I say is a MUST HAVE on a CQB / General Purpose gun. I don't know if it will interfer with a high powered optic or not. It's going to have to be something that you try out.

I know of more than a few guys that have 2 or more optics for the same gun. My only advise if you are going to go this route is to go with LaRue mounts.

Another thing to consider with the Trijicon AccuPoint is it's cheaper than the Aimpoint + Magnifier, the Accupoint has a littler higher magnification, only uses 1 mount, has a wider field of view, and uses BAC.


Link Posted: 10/16/2005 7:10:19 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2005 7:16:58 AM EDT by edwin907]
edit- 11 month old on computer!
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 7:16:25 AM EDT
I make my optics selection for two reasons, performance/fun and for any possible SHTF scenario.

That said, that's why I'm a big Aimpoint fan, close range optic performance takes preference over all else, and it is also why I like the 3X mag/Samson Flip Mount, it greatly extends the usefullness of the 2MOA Aimpoint, especially with my eyes, while not limiting the close range performance in any way (just flip it out of the way).

However BAC works really really well for me, and that is why I have 4X ACOGs on two of my rifles, I like the eye relief, and the optic is a very good compromise. Overall, I prefer the Aimpoint/Magnifier for medium ranges, but on my 14.5" A2 the TA31 is wonderful, especially with the "heads up" FOV. It's fast, precise, and fun. I actually seem to prefer the ACOG 4X on an A2 to an A3.

I've tried the J-Point/Dr Optic and just didn't find it as good as a M3, a good compromise perhaps when mounted to the LT SPR mount.

If, in a SHTF scenario I needed to take a really long shot, I'd probably have time to mount another optic. It's a lot easier to carry the MR/T 3-9 or NSX 3.5-15X50 in place of another rifle.

That's why it is nice to have multiple optics on QD mounts, plus you can try them on all your different builds to see what really works well for you.

I put my NSX in the LT SPR-E mount, to use it on my 20", as well as being able to mount it to any of my flattops.

I'd have a hard time buying a Short Dot when I could by an NXS and an Aimpoint.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 7:33:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/16/2005 7:41:47 AM EDT by mattld]

Originally Posted By Duffy:
I'd just put the other scope setup on another rifle, so both scopes have nice homes to call their own and everyone is happy


You evil influence you. Quit that.


Originally Posted by USMC03:
I over looked that you had a Front Sight Base on the gun. This is something I say is a MUST HAVE on a CQB / General Purpose gun. I don't know if it will interfer with a high powered optic or not. It's going to have to be something that you try out.

I know of more than a few guys that have 2 or more optics for the same gun. My only advise if you are going to go this route is to go with LaRue mounts.

Another thing to consider with the Trijicon AccuPoint is it's cheaper than the Aimpoint + Magnifier, the Accupoint has a littler higher magnification, only uses 1 mount, has a wider field of view, and uses BAC.


Yeah I got the FSP because I prefer having something there incase all hell happens. On my M4 now I turned the Aimpoint off, left my BUIS down, and tried engaging targets with just the FSP. Out to 50 yards I could successfully get hits on man-sized targets using the tube of the Aimpoint as a sort of "ghost ring".

Plus if I ever needed to deploy the BUIS it is one less thing I'd have to deploy as it is already ready to go.

I am leaning more toward starting with an Aimpoint ML3 and seeing what I can do with it but I am going to look hard at that Accupoint.


Originally Posted by edwin907:
I make my optics selection for two reasons, performance/fun and for any possible SHTF scenario.

That said, that's why I'm a big Aimpoint fan, close range optic performance takes preference over all else, and it is also why I like the 3X mag/Samson Flip Mount, it greatly extends the usefullness of the 2MOA Aimpoint, especially with my eyes, while not limiting the close range performance in any way (just flip it out of the way).

However BAC works really really well for me, and that is why I have 4X ACOGs on two of my rifles, I like the eye relief, and the optic is a very good compromise. Overall, I prefer the Aimpoint/Magnifier for medium ranges, but on my 14.5" A2 the TA31 is wonderful, especially with the "heads up" FOV. It's fast, precise, and fun. I actually seem to prefer the ACOG 4X on an A2 to an A3.

I've tried the J-Point/Dr Optic and just didn't find it as good as a M3, a good compromise perhaps when mounted to the LT SPR mount.

If, in a SHTF scenario I needed to take a really long shot, I'd probably have time to mount another optic. It's a lot easier to carry the MR/T 3-9 or NSX 3.5-15X50 in place of another rifle.

That's why it is nice to have multiple optics on QD mounts, plus you can try them on all your different builds to see what really works well for you.

I put my NSX in the LT SPR-E mount, to use it on my 20", as well as being able to mount it to any of my flattops.

I'd have a hard time buying a Short Dot when I could by an NXS and an Aimpoint.


Yeah I see your point. Carrying another optic would be easier / lighter / less cumbersome than carrying around another rifle. The idea of a dedicated weapon sounds good though.

For example, if I had an 18" or 20" SPR I would keep some form of high-power optic on it because using an Aimpoint on it would limit its potential. But for me, guns that at 16" and under can benefit from both types of optics. An ACOG on a 16" or an Aimpoint on a 16" would not hinder it's performance in my eyes. Both types of optics would have their particular applications.

I think right now I am still leaning toward starting with a ML3 with 2 MOA dot to see what I can do with that and later adding an Accupoint-type scope later to see how I like it with that. But all thatmay be because I am an Aimpoint-addict.

I think they can do anything.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 7:08:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Duffy:
The KNS pins replace the standard pins, they will not "walk" or spin inside the pin holes.



What problems occur when they "walk"? And, is this a common problem?
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 7:16:52 PM EDT

Originally Posted By urbankaos04:

Originally Posted By Duffy:
The KNS pins replace the standard pins, they will not "walk" or spin inside the pin holes.



What problems occur when they "walk"? And, is this a common problem?


By walk he means the pins getting loose and possibly coming out.

It's not a common problem with most semi-auto ARs. But sometimes on FA guns the pins will wear out quicker.

Like I said, for my purpose they are not necessary but they came with the trigger from Denny.
Link Posted: 10/16/2005 7:42:10 PM EDT
Thanks.
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 6:06:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2005 6:07:02 AM EDT by Duffy]
I believe the idea is so the pins won't wear out and enlarge the pin holes on the precious RR. Pins can be replaced inexpensively, the RR is something else. I have a set of KNS pins on mine with a single stage trigger. Without the KNS pins when the trigger is pulled the hammer pin rotates inside the pin holes along with the hammer's forward/downward motion, now the hammer rotate around the pin itself because the pin is static. How does this help the trigger? I dunno
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 9:04:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2005 9:06:19 AM EDT by KevinB]
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 9:12:54 AM EDT
interesting thread.
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 1:40:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2005 1:40:28 PM EDT by mattld]

Originally Posted By KevinB:
I tried the NF 2.5-10x route, Aimpoint (in many variants), TA31F, TA01NSN with DR Optic, EOTECH 552, and a few others. I went to the S&B Short Dot - but at the time my requirements where a little different.

For the application you want I would echo Jeff's comment on the NF 2.5-10. If you already have a Aimpoint on the M4gery I dont see the advantage to getting another - just get the Larue Dr Optic mount for the NF.


NF on my Recce
img.photobucket.com/albums/v193/EvilKev/reccetgt.jpg


Is the difference between the NF and S&B the magnification?
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 1:49:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/17/2005 1:52:32 PM EDT by blueheeler66]
Originally Posted By mattld:
Thanks for the info. I will take it all into consideration.
But I must admit that the reason I went with the standard front sight post is that I had imagined using an Aimpoint with it.
And like I mentioned, while I will have the ability to shoot out to 300 or more yards I would rarelydo so unless I had to as that is a long way to walk to set up targets, etc.
That's why I was originally imagining a low-power variable optics or an Aimpoint with a 3x behindit. Something that will be useable out to 100 accurately with the ability to increase that to 200 with the 3x (or 4x on a Short Dot).
And while I don't usually think 1 gun needs two optics I think this gun might make an exception inmy mind. On the one hand I want something for CQB out to about 175-200 yards. On the other hand you are right, this gun has potential and the only way to get that potential is with a high-power optic.
Should I followed the infamous words of ARFCOM and eventually get both?
Also I never got your opinion on the Aimpoint with the 3x combo. You liking that set-up?[/quote

You are a Team Member, right? It's not just a good idea....it's the law!!!
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 2:41:11 PM EDT
if your looking at CQB distance to 250 the Leupy 1.5X5 is a great rig.........I was also looking at the S&B and the Leupy MRT 3X9 but the short dot was too much and the 3X( was to much glass the 1.5X5 is just right. take a look at this thread and decide for yourself....................


http://www.jobrelatedstuff.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=18&t=238462&page=4


gun porn.....................









also the Troy gets my vot for BUIS ..............KAC is great to.............
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 3:07:29 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mattld:
Is the difference between the NF and S&B the magnification?




The S&B Short Dot is 1-4x ........ The Nightforce that Kevin has on his gun and the one that I was refering to in my post is the 2.5-10x ...........Nightforce also makes a 1-4x scope that looks very simular to Kevin's 2.5-10x24.

<­BR>

Link Posted: 10/17/2005 3:40:11 PM EDT
I have a Leupold MR/T 3-9 M3 Illuminated TMR reticle inbound this weekend.

It's going to be my dedicated MRP scope mounted in the LT109 QD rings, probably with the currently fitted KAC 300m, I doubt if anything else will fit under it as the ring height is only 1.275".

Considering the terrific accuracy of the 16" SS MRP barrel and the fact that I guess it is my RECCE, I think it'll be a good relatively small lightweight addition to the MRP/RECCE kit.
To me the "RECCE" kit should contain a relatively powerful but compact optic (9 or 10X) as "recon" is part of the role of the rifle.

Besides the Aimpoint M3/3X Mag/Samson flip mount, my other "optic" part of the kit are a set of Leica Geovid 10X42 laser rangefinding binoculars which some would say makes the 3-9 MR/T redundant.

Any thoughts on this and/or my propensity for multiple optics for certain rifle kits.
Link Posted: 10/17/2005 4:00:33 PM EDT
Leupold, S&B, NightForce, etc. Damn there are a lot of choices.

I am liking the idea of the lower power scopes but even if I narrow it down this far there are still a myriad of choices...

Well at least I did not come into this thinking it would be easy to choose....

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