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Posted: 6/17/2005 4:02:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 4:06:36 AM EDT by Tim-L]
Having recently spent a week watching four thousand rounds go through two of these things, I am thoroughly impressed with this device.

A little background: the Krinkov-type Flash Hider was designed for the Bulgarian AKS-74S, which has a significantly shortened barrel and gas system. The Flash Hider was designed to enhance gas entrapment, increase back pressure, thus ensuring reliable function.

Using this flash hider in the shortened AR platform was the brainchild of John Noveske, of Noveske Rifleworks www.jnrifleworks.com. In two words, it works. For short format guns, gas pressure is precious, and the KFH helps generate much needed back pressure for the gun to reliably operate.

Another issue with the short guns is the great amount of concussion it generates, especially when operating indoors in a team environment. The unique shape of the KFH directs the blast forward, away from the shooter. This works very well, and having stood next to one of these all week in the shoot houses, I am a believer. There is significantly less blast (almost no concussion) when standing even slightly beyond the muzzle about a foot off to the side.

For $85, this is an absolute must-have for anyone running an SBR.

For further info, check the following links:

www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5149&an=0&page=0#5149

www.jnrifleworks.com

Tim

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/5149-DSC00009.JPG

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/4274-krinkov1.jpg

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/4285-krinkov2.jpg
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 4:07:44 AM EDT
It's nice to see you posting over here!

Link Posted: 6/17/2005 5:04:43 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 5:09:19 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
After reading the previous threads and comments, I'm already sold on the Krinkov brake. I placed one on order from Giffman. He has a group buy going for Noveske barrels and Krinkov brakes. I will also have to second M4arc's comment; it is nice to see you cross over to ARFCOM. Welcome
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 5:50:29 AM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 5:57:48 AM EDT
How long is it, and how much length is added to the barrel?
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 6:56:55 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:01:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 8:02:39 AM EDT by 6530]
I got lucky and picked up the last 10.5" CQB barrel John had in stock along with one of the Krink flash hiders. The commentary I've read about them on 10-8 was that convincing.

While I haven't assembled the upper yet, I can say that the craftsmanship is outstanding and John Noveske's a great guy to deal with too. I wouldn't hesitate for a second (and in fact didn't hesitate...).

A Form 1 is on the horizon...

ETA: Also wanted to say thanks to Tim for sharing his expertise on this board.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:22:15 AM EDT
Are the barrels from John ready, or do you have to have them chambered etc etc. Thank you.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:30:09 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 9:10:11 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 10:16:42 AM EDT
So what does this do for flash? is the first round on a cold bore flash different? <IE the only way I can see this thing killing flash is by burning all oxygen inside the device, so the first round should flash and then subsequent rounds fired in short order should not.

That's really hard to believe, you fired 30 rounds from a 10.5 with a flash hider and your ears weren't ringing?

I put more than one or two rounds downrange with my M4 (14.5) and my ears are ringing.

Link Posted: 6/17/2005 11:07:46 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 11:30:00 AM EDT
that is a big a$$ flash hider
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 11:43:14 AM EDT

Originally Posted By exocet:
that is a big a$$ flash hider



+1. I think id go for LEngth of a surpressor than fatness of just a break.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 12:59:44 PM EDT

Originally Posted By exocet:
that is a big a$$ flash hider



It's not as big in person as it looks in the pic.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 1:16:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 1:20:37 PM EDT by TheSaint2004]
That looks great. I wish I could justify the price right now

What is the original color? Black? Thanks.

ETA: Was there a group buy on the forum you linked too? Is it still open?
Maybe ARFCOM could get a group buy on this
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 1:27:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 1:28:19 PM EDT by Va_Dinger]

Originally Posted By TheSaint2004:
That looks great. I wish I could justify the price right now

What is the original color? Black? Thanks.

ETA: Was there a group buy on the forum you linked too? Is it still open?
Maybe ARFCOM could get a group buy on this



Just IM Giffman (AMENDMENT ARMS), it is his group buy. He has also replied on this thread.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 1:49:21 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 1:51:23 PM EDT by 0123456789]
Why not just buy an original Bulgarian from K-Var and then have an adapter from 1/2x28 up to 24mmx1.5 made?

www.k-var.com/product.asp?0=216&1=234&3=235

Or is that what they are doing?
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 2:17:30 PM EDT
I got my order in, Cant wait for this project to get built
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 2:19:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 2:21:25 PM EDT by wyv3rn]
Why not just add 1 1/4" to of barrel length and get the added velocity boost as well? I thought the 10.5"s "run like a clock" already?

I saw the threads on 10-8 about this a long time ago. Just playing devils advocate.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 2:39:16 PM EDT

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
Why not just add 1 1/4" to of barrel length and get the added velocity boost as well? I thought the 10.5"s "run like a clock" already?

I saw the threads on 10-8 about this a long time ago. Just playing devils advocate.



The true purpose of the Krink brake is to reduce the muzzle blast associated with any Shorty. It is not directly targeted towards 10.5" uppers, but to any 7.5”-11.5” AR. If you have ever stood next to a firing 10.5" with an A2 FS you will know what I mean. The Krink brake redirects the blast out and away from the shooter. It also adds some backpressure that will aid reliability.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 2:41:27 PM EDT
That what Noveske has done. His adapter is made of 416 Stainless or, as an option, 4140 Chrome Moly. Noveske says it is made to maximize gas entrapment.

K-VAR offers the brake by itself for $63 plus shipping. Then you need to make an adapter, or have someone do it for you.

John Noveske is a stand up guy, thought of the application, and deserves our business. Plus, the new versions will have a pinned and welded adapter.

Tim

Link Posted: 6/17/2005 3:34:17 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Va_Dinger:

Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
Why not just add 1 1/4" to of barrel length and get the added velocity boost as well? I thought the 10.5"s "run like a clock" already?

I saw the threads on 10-8 about this a long time ago. Just playing devils advocate.



The true purpose of the Krink brake is to reduce the muzzle blast associated with any Shorty. It is not directly targeted towards 10.5" uppers, but to any 7.5”-11.5” AR. If you have ever stood next to a firing 10.5" with an A2 FS you will know what I mean. The Krink brake redirects the blast out and away from the shooter. It also adds some backpressure that will aid reliability.



Ok, more for blast direction and reliability versus flash suppression... Looks cool!

Spooky
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 4:02:31 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 4:29:28 PM EDT

Originally Posted By C4iGrant:
Not 100% correct. I just one one of them in. The Krink flash hider will be here next week. I also have 10 of these barrels on order and will have them in about 4-6 weeks. I will also offer the Krink FS with the barrels (package deals).

I have been stocking Noveske barrels since early spring (placed my order back in December) and must say that these are the finest barrels that I have seen to date. Not only does he use one of the best barrel manufacturer's (PAC NOR), but is one of the best "attention to detail" guys I have met. Combine these two items and you have yourself a top notch barrel that is second to none!


C4

www.gandrtactical.com


10.5 before KG coating
www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/105%20ss.JPG

www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/Noveske%20roll%20mark.JPG

Dimple holes SPECIFICALLY for the LaRue Tactical gas block
www.gandrtactical.com/images/archive/JN%20Rifleworks/dimple%20for%20LT%20GB.JPG



Wow, that does look great!
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 4:31:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 5:11:32 PM EDT
Grant,

JC is a hard shooter and a real deal guy. Thanks for turning him onto the Noveske gear. After seeing he and Jon run their guns hard for 5 days in a row, I became a believer.

Look forward to shooting with you,

Tim

Link Posted: 6/17/2005 6:43:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 6:43:26 PM EDT by urbankaos04]
TIM: Is the RECON barrel just as heavy as an "H-BAR"? I can't tell by the pics, but the barrel looks pretty damn heavy. I understand that this is a "mission-specific" barrel, but I was just wondering about the weight.

In addition, these barrel are not chrom-lined, right? Stainless steel, correct?

The RECON is IMPRESSIVE to say the least.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 6:45:41 PM EDT
what kind of weight is the 10.5, I am planning on carrying for a patrol rifle, do you think its heavy or should I have some weight taken off of it.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 6:48:07 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 7:11:37 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 8:43:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 8:48:28 PM EDT by Green0]
"The gentleman who wrote that review is a highly respected individual within certain communities and was stating his observations. While it might be hard to believe, I have no reason to doubt the man whatsover.

As for the flash killing ability, you'll note that he does address that and states: "Flash, with M855, M193, and Mk 262 was, subjectively, the same as with a standard A2 flash hider'."

I am not calling him a liar, however the BATF has classified this as a flash hider and not as a sound suppressor. I have used a M4QD sound suppressor, and feel it barely brings the report below the discomfort threshold for me I have perfect hearing in one ear and am 80%deaf in the other, meaning one ear is always ringing and loud noises will make it ring louder at lower sound pressure levels than the other ear which is not totally screwed up.

I guess part of that is totally the user. I know a lot of guys in the US military that seem to have no problem jumping on a 240 without ear plugs and firing a 75-150rd burst, but most of them are DEAF AS HELL.

As far as Flash hiding, my comments are due only to the fact that I have held the device which is basically a blast chamber with a single conical baffle, and I really don't see how it would kill flash, especially for the first round fired. If he fired from the rear of the weapon and did not observe the side or front, he may have missed the flash as the flash hider would operate in the same way as WWI/WWII flash hiders of a conical shape (designed to hide flash from the firer), not like today's flash hiders which are designed to hide flash from not only the firer but from the observer as well. I would expect the flash hider to form an artificial environment and kill flash after the first round but that first round should flash like a bastard.

he may not have been looking for, or noticed that.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 9:07:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2005 9:17:42 PM EDT by Tim-L]
Green0,

You are correct in that the Krinkov device is not a sound suppressor. It does not attenuate sound, but rather, redirects it forward. While I would not feel great about shooting a 10.5" gun w/o hearing protection (with or without the KFH), it does noticeably reduce the amount of sound perceived by the shooter.

As for flash hiding, it is a little less efficient than the A2 flash cage but in the same ball park. I have seen it shot indoors, at night, in near pitch black conditions. Using various ammunition, including lower end frangible, the flash, at its worst, was an approximate 3-4" diameter cone, about 6" long extending from the muzzle. Most of the time, it was a 1 1/2" diameter cone about 4-6" long. This is direct observation from the side as students were performing two man team entries at night.

Dave P, who wrote the review at www.10-8forums.com, is an experienced shooter and SME on tactical componentry. His experience with the KFH mirrors mine, though I have not shot it w/o hearing protection. A KFH equipped shorty creates less noise and concussion PERCEIVED BY THE SHOOTER than a 14.5" gun, based on my experience. The cost is, that there is a significantly increased blast and noise sent downrange in a cone shaped pattern.

Guys, it may be difficult to believe, and I would be skeptical as well. I base my statements on firsthand experience with the device during a 5 day advanced carbine course, at which I was teaching with Pat Rogers and Ken Campbell. Dave P was present as well. Shoot and experience the effect to see/hear for yourself.

Here's a link to an After Action Report from the course in question, that includes more info about the KFH:

www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4273&page=0&fpart=3&vc=1

Respectfully,

Tim

PS. We are not deaf.
Link Posted: 6/17/2005 9:24:24 PM EDT
Hey Giff, did you get the MO I sent you for the barrel?
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 5:40:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 9:11:19 AM EDT
Sorry if this was covered, but I read through this thread and didn't see it mentioned:
Does this Krink suppressor just thread onto the barrel like a Vortex, or does it need to be timed like the other FSs?
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 9:41:48 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/18/2005 9:43:50 AM EDT by Green0]
Good information, but geez from experience, keep those ear protectors on or you will be deaf. Most infantrymen are and not a lot of SF guys, that's because the SF guys generally are smarter and forsee the likelyhood of hearing damage and wear plugs.

There would be no need to time this FH, there is no reason to do so, it does not have any intentional redirection of muzzle blast gas in a non-linear direction.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 1:24:09 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Balisong:
Sorry if this was covered, but I read through this thread and didn't see it mentioned:
Does this Krink suppressor just thread onto the barrel like a Vortex, or does it need to be timed like the other FSs?



It just screws onto standard threads.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 3:38:57 PM EDT

Originally Posted By 6530:

Originally Posted By Balisong:
Sorry if this was covered, but I read through this thread and didn't see it mentioned:
Does this Krink suppressor just thread onto the barrel like a Vortex, or does it need to be timed like the other FSs?



It just screws onto standard threads.




schweeeet. I think I see a new toy in Balisong's future. Just got SBR paperwork approved..........
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 7:19:33 PM EDT
Tim_L,


Great review and pics, thanks for sharing.


Green_O,


I use to have a LeVang comp on one of my AR's. All the gas ports on the LeVang were at the muzzle end of the comp, thus directing all the noise toward the target. I could shoot the LeVang comp without hearing protection without discomfort. It is my understanding that the Krink muzzle devise works under the same principal (directing noise, blast, and gases toward the target). Having the noise directed down range instead of directly in front of the shooter at a 90 degree angle made a big difference.



Link Posted: 6/18/2005 9:21:04 PM EDT
It need a adapter first onto the barrel thread then the Krink FS screw onto it.
Link Posted: 6/18/2005 10:43:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2005 4:45:21 PM EDT by POF-USA]
Link Posted: 6/19/2005 8:08:46 AM EDT
Guys, I understand the hesitation to believe the claims that we are making about the KFH. Had I not seen it myself, I would have never believed it either. My first indication of how much the KFH reduces sound to the shooter via sound redirection was when I was standing mid way between one of my bros with a 10.5" government issue gun and someone with a 16" personally owned CAR-15. The 10.5" CAR-15 with the KFH was noticably quieter. Based off of that, I ran the no-ear-pro tests. I agree with GreenO that a standard 14.5" M4 hurts my ears without ear pro---no doubt about it. The 10.5" guns, with no ear pro, are downright painful. The Krink FH simply pushes all the blast and sound directly forward and away from the shooter and, hopefully, his team mates.

I followed this no-ear-pro test up with the test where I put my hand 1/2" beside and 5-6" in front of the muzzle while firing. Again, I know this sounds hard to believe but I've done it in front of a few government guys and Pat Rogers just did it in front of a bunch of feds. It works.

While shooting on an indoor range, we discovered why by looking at the flash signature. The flash is visable but it starts about 5-6" forward of the fron tof the KFH and then does the usual flash pattern. IE, the KFH is acting like a jet nozzle that pushes the gas straight out and away. It is simply redirecting the noise and blast from your ears and face.

Flash, from the 10.5" barrel varies with ammunition. I tested MK 262, Mod 0 and Mod 1 straight out of a GI can, LC M855, and commercial Federal XM 193. Flash was on par with what I'd expect from a 10-11" 5.56mm with an A2 flash hider. No better, no worse. There is flash, but it equals what the A2 would do.

I imagine that noise and blast straight out is just as bad, if not worse, than a standard A2. I just try not to shoot with my buddies straight in fromnt of the muzzle...

PS Just screw it on with no crush or peel washers and torque it to about 15 foot lbs. like the standard FH. Total weight is 8.5 oz.

Link Posted: 6/19/2005 8:39:24 AM EDT
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 2:40:31 PM EDT
Is it possible that this flash hider might bork better with/against night vision than most flash suppressors, since most of the flash seen through NVG is from the hot gasses that are disappated by the flash suppressor?
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 8:39:40 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 6/22/2005 11:25:26 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/26/2005 4:46:56 PM EDT by POF-USA]
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 9:53:19 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Tim-L:
That what Noveske has done. His adapter is made of 416 Stainless or, as an option, 4140 Chrome Moly. Noveske says it is made to maximize gas entrapment.

K-VAR offers the brake by itself for $63 plus shipping. Then you need to make an adapter, or have someone do it for you.

John Noveske is a stand up guy, thought of the application, and deserves our business. Plus, the new versions will have a pinned and welded adapter.

Tim




Brake : $63 www.k-var.com/product.asp?0=216&1=234&3=235


Thread Adapter : AK-236 $18 www.aa-ok.com/AK_Spare_Parts/Spare_Parts.htm
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 11:10:05 AM EDT
Would this setup have any value on a longer barrel? 14.5 or 16?



Link Posted: 6/23/2005 11:26:34 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Lancelot:
Would this setup have any value on a longer barrel? 14.5 or 16?






+1
Link Posted: 6/23/2005 2:20:07 PM EDT
Yes, there is a use on the longer barrel guns but, since the muzzle blast is less on the longer guns, the KFH advantages are not as great. For a 10-11" barrel, I'd say the KFH is ALMOST mandatory. For the longer guns, it's nice but not must have. The advantages are the same but they are less dramatic.

You can buy a Krink FH for $63 and an adapter from another company for $18, for a total of $81 or you could buy a complete KFH from Noveske, preassembled with great quality control, for $85. It seems like a no brainer to me. Also, for those of us who want the ultimate in durability, Noveske offers the adapter TIG welded to the KFH and reparked for $125. All in all, you can get the complete package or you can piecemeal it together and save $4. No flame just an observation.
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