Quoted: Yes, there is a use on the longer barrel guns but, since the muzzle blast is less on the longer guns, the KFH advantages are not as great. For a 10-11" barrel, I'd say the KFH is ALMOST mandatory. For the longer guns, it's nice but not must have. The advantages are the same but they are less dramatic. You can buy a Krink FH for $63 and an adapter from another company for $18, for a total of $81 or you could buy a complete KFH from Noveske, preassembled with great quality control, for $85. It seems like a no brainer to me. Also, for those of us who want the ultimate in durability, Noveske offers the adapter TIG welded to the KFH and reparked for $125. All in all, you can get the complete package or you can piecemeal it together and save $4. No flame just an observation.

Thanks David

Tag

Wow good thing you can get a BATF Tech letter for it, otherwise I would be afraid it would be mistaken by local LE for a suppressor. Makes sense that it just directs the decibels forward, therefore does not suppress the sound at all. Still would carry a copy of the letter along with a copy of my tax stamp.

I think I'm going to order one of these for my 11.5".

Quoted: Quoted: Wow good thing you can get a BATF Tech letter for it, otherwise I would be afraid it would be mistaken by local LE for a suppressor. Makes sense that it just directs the decibels forward, therefore does not suppress the sound at all. Still would carry a copy of the letter along with a copy of my tax stamp. I think I'm going to order one of these for my 11.5". Generally speaking only the ATF would be interested in the possibility of a FS acting as a suppressor (not your local PD). I think the tin hat mafia has gotten ahold of you and wouldn't worry yourself about such things. C4

Yep, you are probably right.
It is definitely  on my "must have" short list.

tagged

So where's Mongo with some sort of modified flash hider or brake that can be installed on a barrel and replace that stainless adapter?  I'm not sure how the OD of a standard (22mm?) FS compares to the ID of the Krink FS, but it would be nice to make the Krink removable without a wrench.  

How do we summon the Evil Machinist?  

Tagged, with great interest for my AR Pistol.

I have next to zero experience with "SBAR's"  so...

I'm not even sure how much a 10.5" jumps around with just an A2?
Does it have any effect on muzzle rise?




(does it even matter?!? It's cool as is! )

Guys, the brake does work as Tim, and Dave has described. I saw it in action last week. It was a great idea to marry the Krink to the SBR.

A word on Noveske. I learned very quickly that Tim and Pat support manufacturers of high quality gear, but they promote those manufacturers that are truly good people, with the desire to outfit operators with the best gear and service they can provide. I'm sure you'll agree that there aren't enough such people out there, hence, John Noveske really does deserve our business.

Be well!


[email protected]

I got a chance to shoot a 10.5 Noveske with the Krink.  No noticeable difference in sound or jump from my 14.5 with Vortex.

The Krink isn't as big in person.  

I shot over 1K through my 11.5" w/Krink at Pat's course this weekend.  It really does work as advertised.

Very interesting.

Tim-L,

If I were going to add the Bulgy (loctited one) to a 14.5 (12.75?!?) inch barrel, could I get it not loctited so I could do the permattaching.  I would prefer not to un-loctite just so I could get the silver wield in their.

Hrmm, or could I send my barrel to John Noveske and have him do the work?

- Gazukull

Noveske now offers the Krinkov Flash Hiders with a permanently attached adapter. Contact him directly and you will be taken care of.

Tim

PS. Thanks to all for your kind words re: 10-8 Forums. G&R Tactical and ADCO Firearms represent two of the very few retail vendors I wholeheartedly recommend. The other would be the excellent folks over at MSTN.

Thank you, Tim. I feel comfortable speaking for ADCO Firearms, and G&R Tactical when I say we appreciate what you do for the firearm/law enforcement community.

Be well!

Quoted: Having recently spent a week watching four thousand rounds go through two of these things, I am thoroughly impressed with this device. A little background: the Krinkov-type Flash Hider was designed for the Bulgarian AKS-74S, which has a significantly shortened barrel and gas system. The Flash Hider was designed to enhance gas entrapment, increase back pressure, thus ensuring reliable function. Using this flash hider in the shortened AR platform was the brainchild of John Noveske, of Noveske Rifleworks www.jnrifleworks.com. In two words, it works. For short format guns, gas pressure is precious, and the KFH helps generate much needed back pressure for the gun to reliably operate. Another issue with the short guns is the great amount of concussion it generates, especially when operating indoors in a team environment. The unique shape of the KFH directs the blast forward, away from the shooter. This works very well, and having stood next to one of these all week in the shoot houses, I am a believer. There is significantly less blast (almost no concussion) when standing even slightly beyond the muzzle about a foot off to the side. For $85, this is an absolute must-have for anyone running an SBR. For further info, check the following links: www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=5149&an=0&page=0#5149 www.jnrifleworks.com Tim www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/5149-DSC00009.JPG www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/4274-krinkov1.jpg www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/postimages/4285-krinkov2.jpg

Great rifle there with the gear and camo job.  

Now I have to equip all of my SBRs with Noveske Krinkovs!  

tag

I want one of these on the SBR I'm building.  Thanks for all the info!

If you come out to FDCC this weekend, I'll bring the AR pistol with the krink brake and you can try it.

How long is it taking for you folks to receive your Bulg. Krinks?

I ordered from jnrifleworks last week.

What should I expect?


Edit: Shipped out yesterday.  

An up date from a "regular guy" on the forum. I'm not some HSLD operator, just a guy
that likes my shorty.   I took a carbine class last weekend and everyone moaned and groaned
about my 11.5".   The blast was awful for the guys next to me and the flash at night
was unreal, especially out of a closed bottom A2.

Monday morning I called Grant and ordered this thing, pretty much on blind faith and this thread.
It got here Thursday morning (thanks again Grant).

It is pretty big to me, but not too bad. I bought the version with the permanently welded adapter,
I think that is all Grant sells and I'm not sure why you would want the other one.  I slapped
on some blue Loctite and tightened it with a strap wrench.  FYI it needs a 1 1/4" or so wrench
and I didnt have one handy, but the strap worked fine.

So, last night I shot the thing.  Well, for the doubters let me tell you, this thing is something else.

Blast from behind the gun was VERY much reduced. I didn't shoot without hearing proteciton because
I'm not that crazy, but I could tell a HUGE reduction in volume and blast.  

From prone in the dirt, it still does kick up a lot of dust, maybe even more than my old A2 because
it was closed bottom, but (there's always a but) the way the blast is directed forward, the dirt kicked
up wasn't right under the muzzle, rather several inches in front.  So the amount of dirt and dust
was the same, but it was further away as if I was shooting a 16" or so barrel, so I didn't get
as much in my face as before. That was nice.

From behind the rifle, flash "appears" to be the same, maybe less. In my case it's probably less from the
shooters perspective because my old A2 again was closed on the bottom, directing everything up.
I didn't have anyone with me to stand to the side and see, I will try that in a few days.

For cleaning, you can disassemble the FH without removing it from the barrel. There is a locking wire that
can be lifted up and the outer ring unscrewed. Then you can remove the cone and clean things.  With the cone
removes you can actually get to the crown of the barrel easily, so it makes it easier to clean with a proper rod.

$125 is a lot for a flash hider, but after 500 rounds in an all day class, I can tell you a shorty with an
A2 is just miserable, my friends in class would call it worse than that having to stand next to it.

So for me, it was a worthy upgrade to the rifle, and I'm glad I bought it. If I had a 10.5 instead of the 11.5
I would consider it mandatory.  Yes, everyone thinks it is a suppressor, the tin foil people might not be so out of line here.
I am not going to carry the ATF letter, I'm already carrying a Form 1 for the SBR,
I am not too worried, but it is big.

ETA:  PICS!!

Installed on my Bushy SBR. By the way, enjoy the shiny clean photos, cause even after just
40 rounds last night it took me forever to clean the thing up.  It won't ever get this
clean again

One additional thing I just noticed when cleaning this morning.  In the past using the A2, the Surefire
has been pretty filthy from blast residue being so close to the muzzle and the A2 directing everything
up.  Today when I was cleaning, the Surefire was spotless, so that's a nice side benefit.



Looking towards the business end:



Disassembled for cleaning:

Quoted: An up date from a "regular guy" on the forum. I'm not some HSLD operator, just a guy that likes my shorty.   I took a carbine class last weekend and everyone moaned and groaned about my 11.5".   The blast was awful for the guys next to me and the flash at night was unreal, especially out of a closed bottom A2. Monday morning I called Grant and ordered this thing, pretty much on blind faith and this thread. It got here Thursday morning (thanks again Grant). It is pretty big to me, but not too bad. I bought the version with the permanently welded adapter, I think that is all Grant sells and I'm not sure why you would want the other one.  I slapped on some blue Loctite and tightened it with a strap wrench.  FYI it needs a 1 1/4" or so wrench and I didnt have one handy, but the strap worked fine. So, last night I shot the thing.  Well, for the doubters let me tell you, this thing is something else. Blast from behind the gun was VERY much reduced. I didn't shoot without hearing proteciton because I'm not that crazy, but I could tell a HUGE reduction in volume and blast.   From prone in the dirt, it still does kick up a lot of dust, maybe even more than my old A2 because it was closed bottom, but (there's always a but) the way the blast is directed forward, the dirt kicked up wasn't right under the muzzle, rather several inches in front.  So the amount of dirt and dust was the same, but it was further away as if I was shooting a 16" or so barrel, so I didn't get as much in my face as before. That was nice. From behind the rifle, flash "appears" to be the same, maybe less. In my case it's probably less from the shooters perspective because my old A2 again was closed on the bottom, directing everything up. I didn't have anyone with me to stand to the side and see, I will try that in a few days. For cleaning, you can disassemble the FH without removing it from the barrel. There is a locking wire that can be lifted up and the outer ring unscrewed. Then you can remove the cone and clean things.  With the cone removes you can actually get to the crown of the barrel easily, so it makes it easier to clean with a proper rod. $125 is a lot for a flash hider, but after 500 rounds in an all day class, I can tell you a shorty with an A2 is just miserable, my friends in class would call it worse than that having to stand next to it. So for me, it was a worthy upgrade to the rifle, and I'm glad I bought it. If I had a 10.5 instead of the 11.5 I would consider it mandatory.  Yes, everyone thinks it is a suppressor, the tin foil people might not be so out of line here. I am not going to carry the ATF letter, I'm already carrying a Form 1 for the SBR, I am not too worried, but it is big. Pics coming, the rifle is in pieces on my desk at the moment.

Thanks for the great review. I think I may see one of these in my future.

Quoted: Quoted: Wow good thing you can get a BATF Tech letter for it, otherwise I would be afraid it would be mistaken by local LE for a suppressor. Makes sense that it just directs the decibels forward, therefore does not suppress the sound at all. Still would carry a copy of the letter along with a copy of my tax stamp. I think I'm going to order one of these for my 11.5". Generally speaking only the ATF would be interested in the possibility of a FS acting as a suppressor (not your local PD). I think the tin hat mafia has gotten ahold of you and wouldn't worry yourself about such things. C4

The rifle is still loud - from all I've heard no one has quit wearing hearing protection when they shoot these things.  I bet the only way the officer would know the sound is different is if they are around short barrelled rifles in the first place...

Spooky

Trying to decide if it is worth getting for a rifle that isn't 10 or 11 inches long...

Quoted: [he first place... Spooky Trying to decide if it is worth getting for a rifle that isn't 10 or 11 inches long...

I can't really imagine why you'd want to for a 16" or for that matter even a 14.5".

The weight is a factor, it's not a whole lot, but on a longer gun you are already heavier
from barrel length. Plus, it is not a particularly effective flash hider, and the blast
is already out there far enough to not be that big a deal. On a long gun I'd stick with the
tried and true A2, Phantom, Vortex, whatever you like.

My 2 cents anyway.

Quoted: Quoted: [he first place... Spooky Trying to decide if it is worth getting for a rifle that isn't 10 or 11 inches long... I can't really imagine why you'd want to for a 16" or for that matter even a 14.5". The weight is a factor, it's not a whole lot, but on a longer gun you are already heavier from barrel length. Plus, it is not a particularly effective flash hider, and the blast is already out there far enough to not be that big a deal. On a long gun I'd stick with the tried and true A2, Phantom, Vortex, whatever you like. My 2 cents anyway.

That's the conclusion I'm coming to...  Anyone think that these would be a viable option for 16-18" rifles in bigger calibers - say 6.8mm, 7.62x51, 7.62x39?  

Maybe on something like this:


It is pretty darn loud with a 16" barrel...

Pics added on Page 3.

Quoted: Pics added on Page 3.

Very nice!  Any chance of a peek down the barrel when it is disassembled?

Spooky

Quoted: Quoted: Pics added on Page 3. Very nice!  Any chance of a peek down the barrel when it is disassembled? Spooky

I tried, too dark in there and the flash just didn't light it up clearly enough to see.

The funnel shaped piece fits right up against the muzzle
of the barrel, so when you look inside you see the barrel sticking out just a fraction
of an inch past the FH.  when you put the cone in , it slides down against the muzzle
and the retaining ring locks everything in place. It must fit pretty tight against the
barrel, there wasn't much residue on the outside of the cone, so not much blowby.

I did put some antisieze on the threads when I put it back together, just in case.

Why the large body if the cone is right up against the muzzle?  

I thought the chamber inside would do something with regard to flash suppression.

Quoted: Why the large body if the cone is right up against the muzzle?   I thought the chamber inside would do something with regard to flash suppression.

It does not appear to. Even if gas was to blowby into that chamber, it would have no place
to go.  The large body seems to be just a container for the cone.  The inside
of the chamber was pretty clean. I don't really know what the design intent
was, maybe someone else does.

If your barrel is threaded correctly, 1/2x28x.625" 2A, there is appx .5" between the muzzle and end of cone.  
----John Noveske

Quoted: If your barrel is threaded correctly, 1/2x28x.625" 2A, there is appx .5" between the muzzle and end of cone.   ----John Noveske

Geez, be careful when you ask for an expert opinion!!!!  Wow

Thanks John! I will look in there and see. It seems to be closer than that, but it's hard to tell.

It's an off the shelf Bushy 11.5 MG barrel.

Great product by the way.

So is that the intent?  That some of the flash goes into the chamber surrounding the cone?
I have no idea how it works other than the obvious megaphone function concerning the blast.

ETA:  Went outside where I could see well and there is some gap between the end of the muzzle and
the start of the cone, so I guess it's correct then.  It was too dark to tell inside the house.

IIRC correctly from another thread, the chamber is there to allow for the unburnt powder and gases to accumulate, thereby reducing flash signature.

Its a gas trap design.  Flash is reduced by the gas accumulated in the cone.  On my actual krink, some shots have a signature, some do not.  Even when it does flame, the flash is significantly reduced over what you'd see with an A2 on a shorty AR.  Main benefit is the sound re-direction.  An excellent product, just got my AR brake friday.  Looking forward to shooting it.  

(pretty sure all the above is correct)

How much does it weigh? I cannot find the weight anywhere.

Thanks

Well, I think I finally found what I want to replace my mini Y comp with on my 14.5 M4 barrel.

C4iGrant just sent me this photo of my old LMT 10.5" upper with a Noveske/LaRue make-over. It got a Noveske 10.5" CQB barrel, Noveske Krink brake, and a LaRue 7.0. Adco milled flats and installed a LMT standard FSB with set screws (Mech zero).  I'm going to pick this baby up tomorrow.

That's cool.

I just got mine!

Is the Blue loctite really needed?

Seems like when the barrel heats up it would not help in anyway.

TexasSIG wrote:

Plus, it is not a particularly effective flash hider...

Dave Pennington recently performed a comparison of the Noveske KFH and a standard A2 brake during some training we did at 10-8 a few weeks ago. I was present for the demo, along with a bunch of other shooters. The guns used were SBR's with 10.5" barrels. Ammunition used included as issued M855 green tip, Federal XM193, and BH Mk 262 Mod 1. The Mk 262 had the least amount of flash across the board, but the KFH proved significantly more effective as a flash hider than the A2. The most impressive was with Federal XM193. It created a large fireball out of the A2 but was reduced to a small orange cone out of the Noveske KFH.

Tim

Quoted: TexasSIG wrote: Plus, it is not a particularly effective flash hider... Dave Pennington recently performed a comparison of the Noveske KFH and a standard A2 brake during some training we did at 10-8 a few weeks ago. I was present for the demo, along with a bunch of other shooters. The guns used were SBR's with 10.5" barrels. Ammunition used included as issued M855 green tip, Federal XM193, and BH Mk 262 Mod 1. The Mk 262 had the least amount of flash across the board, but the KFH proved significantly more effective as a flash hider than the A2. The most impressive was with Federal XM193. It created a large fireball out of the A2 but was reduced to a small orange cone out of the Noveske KFH. Tim

Understand I posted that in response to a question about putting the device on a longer barrel.
I did say in my original review that it appeared to me to be less than the A2 I was using,
just that it is not such a huge difference just as a flash hider.

I shoot XM193 exclusively, and there does not seem to be a significant reduction in the fireball,
at least from the view point of the shooter. A little but not a lot.  I have not had someone off to the side observing.
I'm just giving my objective opinion.  You posted the following on 6/18 where you
agreed with what I observed. With all due respect, this shows it to be a very subjective thing
and appears difficult to quantify in some fashion.

Originally posted by Tim-L

As for flash hiding, it is a little less efficient than the A2 flash cage but in the same ball park.

And from Mr Pennington:

There is flash, but it equals what the A2 would do.

The thing it's important to note, and the thing that makes this device well worth the money
in my opinion, is that the blast and flash are "moved" several inches forward of the barrel,
making the immediate area around the shooter much more pleasant.  I'm not particularly
concerned with what the person it's pointed at thinks of it

It's a fantastic device though, I want to make sure anyone reading understands that.
The blast reduction is truly amazing and makes me want to shoot the shorty more often.

TexasSIG,

I did say it seemed a little less efficient than the A2, but that was an initial, very conservative estimation. I had compared the KFH shooting unknown, low quality frangible ammunition with the A2 shooting high quality mil and commercial ammunition. It wasn't until we did the back to back comparison at the Vickers course in VA that I got to see the effectiveness of the KFH as a flash hider. There were approximately 20 other students in the class that witnessed this firsthand, and the reaction was fairly unanimous. Observation was done way off to the side and slightly forward of the muzzle. We fired five rounds of each type of ammunition, and results were consistent.  

For more info, see www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7108&an=0&page=0#7108

Tim

Quoted: Quoted: That's cool. I just got mine! Is the Blue loctite really needed? Seems like when the barrel heats up it would not help in anyway. I would suggest it. C4

Okay, now I have to remember where a put that little bottle.

Quoted: TexasSIG, I did say it seemed a little less efficient than the A2, but that was an initial, very conservative estimation. I had compared the KFH shooting unknown, low quality frangible ammunition with the A2 shooting high quality mil and commercial ammunition. It wasn't until we did the back to back comparison at the Vickers course in VA that I got to see the effectiveness of the KFH as a flash hider. There were approximately 20 other students in the class that witnessed this firsthand, and the reaction was fairly unanimous. Observation was done way off to the side and slightly forward of the muzzle. We fired five rounds of each type of ammunition, and results were consistent.   For more info, see www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=7108&an=0&page=0#7108 Tim

Certainly not trying to argue, it just seems subjective. I have not had the opportunity to see it from the side, I would like to do that soon.  It's always difficult to judge from behind the weapon.  Thanks for the link.

tag-ola