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Posted: 3/12/2005 5:29:29 AM EDT
Yesterday (March 11th) was the deadline for industry to provide 5 each 7.62 NATO candidate SASS's to the US Army at Aberdeen Proving Ground, Maryland. Official nomenclature is XM110.

We (KAC) got ours there on time. We designated our models as "SR-XM110."

The SASS is intended to replace the Army's aging M24 Sniper Weapon System (SWS) with a semi-auto with 5, 10, & 20-round magazines, variable power scope, cleaning kit, coated bore rod, bore rod guide, mag pouches, Deployment Kit, System Carrying Case, Drag Bag, soft scope case, etc., etc., or in other words: "the whole 9 yards."

The rifle was to have a Flash Suppressor, detachable Sound Suppressor, adjustable stock, rail forend, folding iron back-up sights, detachable bipod, sling/sling swivels, etc., and a BFA if available.

The Army's Solicitation was 97 pages long, and maybe someone can post a link to it?

I am opening this topic for others to post SASS/XM110 news because our candidate was a Mk 11 Mod 0 variant, which makes it an "AR." Obviously, if KAC's or someone elses "AR" type candidate becomes the Army's actual "M110," that will open yet another chapter in the AR History Book.

I am just thinking that having a topic such as this one might be a good place for the posting and saving of all the info and tid-bits, that naturally surround and eminate from such programs, for future history book authors.
ColdBlue offers "Good Luck" to all particiants, and invites all to participate...
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:54:22 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 6:53:35 AM EDT by mach6]
Do you have any information on who else definitely entered a candidate system? Are all entrants (assuming there were others) AR-based designs? I'm also wondering how price will enter into the down-select criterion.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 6:33:28 AM EDT
coldblue -

Are there any pictures available of the system?

Spooky
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:02:49 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 8:10:08 AM EDT by JohnM]
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:09:19 AM EDT
Thanks for posting, coldblue!
tagged for updates
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:21:24 AM EDT
yaaaaay!!! the new arfcom flavor of the week.

cool though, thanks.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:40:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 8:42:53 AM EDT by 5subslr5]

Originally Posted By Spooky130:
coldblue -

Are there any pictures available of the system?

Spooky






Dave,
pics would be great.


5sub
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:01:36 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:06:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/12/2005 10:06:53 AM EDT by SULACO2]
My very preliminary and basic info. is that KAC, Remington/DPMS, and DSA all submitted entries...

Anyone else?

/S2
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 10:44:04 AM EDT
Wonder if Armalite & or Bushy had an entry?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 12:02:13 PM EDT


Remington/DPMS?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 12:38:53 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 1:41:30 PM EDT
Why they would build such a beautiful rifle and use a standard pistol grip blows my friggin mind. Standard grips are the worst.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 2:53:04 PM EDT

Originally Posted By h8mtv:
Why they would build such a beautiful rifle and use a standard pistol grip blows my friggin mind. Standard grips are the worst.



Right.....

Matt
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 2:58:26 PM EDT

Originally Posted By h8mtv:
Why they would build such a beautiful rifle and use a standard pistol grip blows my friggin mind. Standard grips are the worst.



+1
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 3:23:17 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 3:23:55 PM EDT
I would be very suprised if Bushy didnt enter a model. I reall ylike the .308 they are making. I hope to buy one. I havent seen any at the shop or shows yet.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 3:27:00 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:



Sub, do you know if Armalite got a submission in?



Not really certain about that. Really haven't been following this program too closely.

5sub
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 3:53:22 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:05:37 PM EDT
Again, who submitted and were they all AR-based? What were unit prices, per solicitation, quoted at?
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:13:04 PM EDT
That RFP reads like a shoe-in for the SR-25.........

Good luck!!!
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 5:40:44 PM EDT
Tagged

Good luck and thanks for the info.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 7:51:48 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 8:13:44 PM EDT
Interesting.
Link Posted: 3/12/2005 9:06:53 PM EDT

Originally Posted By mach6:
Again, who submitted and were they all AR-based? What were unit prices, per solicitation, quoted at?



Sorry I forgot SA...I believe they submittedan M14/M21/M1A variant...

/S2
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 12:52:21 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 4:27:48 AM EDT by Va_Dinger]
I cannot wait till we get more news on this!
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:00:44 AM EDT
Now, this is INDEED interesting!!!!! I hope you guys win!!!! I just hope that whatever the new sniper system will be like, it will based on an AR platform!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

Ps. Maybe this could qualify as a sticky? Afterall, this is pretty big news...especially if KAC wins.


PPS. I bet the new system will run for $3.5k
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:08:04 AM EDT
If you don't win, you'll be doing civilian sales to recoup developement costs right?

Good luck KAC.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 4:03:28 AM EDT
congrats Dave on submitting the SASS, I know you have been busy on the project.

If you have some pics you want to post, give me a shout I will post them for you.

until then, looking forward to my next trip to NASA.

Take care.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:25:21 AM EDT
I'm gunna be abso-da-da-damn-lutely pissed if ARMALITE missed the Time Boat or didn't even try.

Dave S
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:29:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/13/2005 10:30:11 AM EDT by mach6]

Originally Posted By TheFlyingFinn:
Now, this is INDEED interesting!!!!! I hope you guys win!!!! I just hope that whatever the new sniper system will be like, it will based on an AR platform!!!

GOOD LUCK!!!

Ps. Maybe this could qualify as a sticky? Afterall, this is pretty big news...especially if KAC wins.


PPS. I bet the new system will run for $3.5k


====================================
$3,500.00 for everything included in the solicitation? I don't think so. For a new-production AR-based system, try a number 3-4 times that, when total life-cycle costs are factored in, IMHO. If it's the over-priced, over-engineered Euro stuff (you know who we're talking about), factor that figure by at least 1.5X.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:50:43 AM EDT
Will be interesting to see the outcome of this.
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 10:57:25 AM EDT
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 2:17:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By DaveS:
I'm gunna be abso-da-da-damn-lutely pissed if ARMALITE missed the Time Boat or didn't even try.

Dave S




+1
Link Posted: 3/13/2005 5:38:03 PM EDT
the MK11




I am guessing the FH off the SR25K Battle Rifle system was used, and potentially URX as a rail?

Dave any pics? Inquiring kit sluts need pics

Link Posted: 3/13/2005 11:32:30 PM EDT
Spoke to Dave about the SASS during the ShotShow, the scope has to be detachable and in its own case which needs to go into the gun case along with the drag bag. some requirement.

I know the URX is part of the SASS package. I am waiting for photo from Dave to post in the next couple of days.

Dave,

I replied you with my e-mail address or you can get it from my web site at www.cltactical.com
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:24:22 PM EDT
I wonder if any M-14 based systems entered into the fray.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 1:42:42 PM EDT

Originally Posted By KevinB:
I am guessing the FH off the SR25K Battle Rifle system was used, and potentially URX as a rail?





That would make sense.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:16:24 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 2:28:32 PM EDT by Green0]
four comments on the Remington system

1 NEEDS UNDEVIDED TOP-RAIL
2 BARREL LOOKS FAR TOO HEAVY <thisis also an M24 flaw. It all seems great untill you have a day/night sight, bi-pod and sound suppressor on it.
3 ERGO GRIP NEEDED
4 VLTOR? come on-- M93A is the clear choice for this.

I'm amazed to see a Remington AR-10. . WOW.

I can't believe it took the Army this long to smell the coffee. The SPR even boggles my mind-- all that sophistication combined with an A2 stock? Finally the Army isn't trying to dig up 1960's M14's to race lemans. The M14 issue is rediculous at this point. The M24 in the urban environment-- I've seen third ID snipers foot patrolling with pistols-- that is how stupid that is.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:23:00 PM EDT
Tag.
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 2:23:57 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/14/2005 2:25:06 PM EDT by Green0]
"I'm gunna be abso-da-da-damn-lutely pissed if ARMALITE missed the Time Boat or didn't even try."

I wouldn't be surprised, they are a company made famous by an inventor who thought outside the box and now run by people who couldn't think out of the box if the box were made of glass.

I sent them a long e-mail about how there is a window right now for them to submit a weapon to the Army for competition with the XM8, and they didn't even respond. It was my idea of what it should be.

[it was if you guys care]
A MRP style upper with gas-piston drive on the interchangeable barrels
a striker fired ignition to eliminate the old swinging hammer sytem
semi-match grade trigger for enhanced shootability.
Melonite treated steel
a BR TUOTE cheapass suppressor standard OEM (they are like $45 a piece in bulk and hearing is a safety issue)
and an M93A stock
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 4:26:53 PM EDT
Here are some pictures SMG Lee took at SHOT. Maybe something along these lines?


I need one of this. The ideal battle rifle. - SMGLee


Carbine size 308 with 14.5 inch barrel, Mk11 style suppressor. URX2 and one bitchen Nightforce scope. LMT crane stock round off the package. - SMGLee


I must have one. - SMGLee


KAC dimpled the barrel to give weight reduction and heat disipation. I saw this concept at KAC last year while Dave is working on some major Gov't proposals. this method was perfected in house and really gives some noticeable weight reduction. This 308 was light, very handy and easy to point. - SMGLee

Original Post

Spooky
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 4:29:56 PM EDT
If KAC makes it you know DAMN well it will work and work WELL!
Thanks for the info Dave!
Stay Safe,
Robb
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 6:27:26 PM EDT
tag
Link Posted: 3/14/2005 7:05:48 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Hawkeye:
Standard grips work just fine for me.


Col., another request for pics if possible of KAC's submission.


Sub, do you know if Armalite got a submission in?



Yep, they did.
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 3:41:31 AM EDT
Tag,

VERY interesting developments. I'm curious to whom ALL submitted entries into this competition? Who was on the invite list? Also curious besides KAC, what rail system the others will go to, if indeed an AR type platform.? WOuld love to hear from ARMS, Larue, etc. on this as well. Nice thread, tagged.

Link Posted: 3/15/2005 4:09:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 6:52:00 AM EDT by Victor]
Here is the full bid notice...again

"W15QKN-05-R-0433
FedBizOpps notice Date: 2004-11-17
Description:
The U.S. Army ARDEC, Picatinny Arsenal, NJ 07806 has a requirement for a 7.62mm semi-automatic sniper system (SASS) capable of delivering precision fire primarily on anti-personnel targets out to a range of 1,000 meters. This system must be a man portable, shoulder fired system utilizing military standard 7.62 x 51 mm caliber ammunition but optimized for the open-tip M118LR long range ammunition. Additionally, M993 Armor Piercing (AP) ammunition will be fired based on specific mission requirements. Compatibility with the existing family of military 7.62 x 51mm caliber ammunition is also required. The primary components of the system include a rifle, detachable bipod, hard transport/storage case(s), soft carrying case(s), cleaning/maintenance equipment, and manuals. The weapon will have a flash/sound suppressor, high capacity (up to 20-round) detachable box magazines; rails/mounting surfaces for mounting fire control (optics, backup iron sights and aim- light) systems; variable power optics/electro-optics (in order to engage targets between 50 and 1000 meters); and an accompanying spotting scope with range estimation reticle(s) and a night vision interface. There will be a Base contract of thirty (30) systems for Type Classification with four Options. The Option ranges shall be as follows: Option I quantity range of 1-250 each; Option II quantity range of 1 –550 each; Option III quantity ranges of 1-400, 401-800, 801-1,200 each; Option IV quantity ranges of 1-400, 401-800, 801-1,200 each. The offeror shall submit five (5) bid samples at no cost or obligation to the Government. The winning offeror must be able to deliver operator and maintenance manuals 15 days after contract award. The first fifteen (15) of the thirty (30) SASSs will be delivered with spare parts 30-days after contract award. The remaining fifteen (15) SASSs with spare parts will be delivered 90 days after contract award. The number of spares must be sufficient to cover Pre-Production Qualification Testing (PPQT) and Initial Operational Testing (IOT). There shall also be a First Article Test (FAT) quantity of five (5) items that must be passed prior to approval of Options. In addition, the contractor must be able to sustain a delivery schedule of 100 systems per month beginning 30 days from successful completion of First Article Testing. A competitive Request for Proposal (RFP) will be posted on the TACOM-ARDEC Acquisition Center website located at: http://procnet.pica.army.mil on or about 30 November 2004. Proposals/Bid Samples will be required within thirty
(30) days from date of release of the RFP."

I found this blurb very interesting to be included in this package ..."variable power optics/electro-optics (in order to engage targets between 50 and 1000 meters); and an accompanying spotting scope with range estimation reticle(s) and a night vision interface..."

Finally, we could see thermal/NVD auto range scopes come to flourish? For the spotting scopes, one can use a intesifier on the back of the unit. Something along the lines NVEC does for cameras and such. www.nvec-night-vision.com/products/details_R.asp?Msg=20&System=NVECIU&Category=4
This "kills two birds with one stone" to have ONE spotting scope for day/night use. They must use one hell of a tube and glass to see at increased maginification of 20x or more! I for one sometimes use a 6X Ratptor on a standard spotting scope tripod for night ops.

Also funny, no mention of acurracy requirements? Sure to be MOA or less one would assume?

EDITED: Found the accuracy requirements in the full 97 page SOW. Not a bad read at all!
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:04:12 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Victor:
I'm curious to whom ALL submitted entries into this competition?




***Armalite, Bushmaster, Remington/DPMS, KAC, DSA should all be there (at least said they would). A dark horse or two can usually be expected, but not as many of the real small guys can jump through the paperwork hoops. My understanding was FN, Cobb, and a couple others had plans to do this but were on the fence. There will be some proof-of-concept rifles 'submitted' by a military component, and they basically set the bar, ie. "If we could do this good with building up off the shelf parts, done cheap - these pricey bidded rifles had better rock better than ours." There are simply a LOT of fish in the water (potential contracts/new systems being purchased or built up) right now, and no one firearms company can pursue them all...

It would be nice to see Remington in on the game.

Lots of new players and some good ideas. Should be some interesting accessories coming out of this as well.

I'm not very involved with this go-round so am more or less enjoying the show. :)



Kel
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 6:30:50 AM EDT

Originally Posted By kel:

Originally Posted By Victor:
I'm curious to whom ALL submitted entries into this competition?




***Armalite, Bushmaster, Remington/DPMS, KAC, DSA should all be there (at least said they would). A dark horse or two can usually be expected, but not as many of the real small guys can jump through the paperwork hoops. My understanding was FN, Cobb, and a couple others had plans to do this but were on the fence. There will be some proof-of-concept rifles 'submitted' by a military component, and they basically set the bar, ie. "If we could do this good with building up off the shelf parts, done cheap - these pricey bidded rifles had better rock better than ours." There are simply a LOT of fish in the water (potential contracts/new systems being purchased or built up) right now, and no one firearms company can pursue them all...

It would be nice to see Remington in on the game.

Lots of new players and some good ideas. Should be some interesting accessories coming out of this as well.

I'm not very involved with this go-round so am more or less enjoying the show. :)



Kel



Speaking of accessories, should prove to be VERY interesting if not a KAC design, who's rail system/forearms will be used as well on another entry. My bets on Dick!

A good show indeed!

Vic
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:10:07 AM EDT
Tag,

That barrel dimpling sure looks interesting. ColdBlue can you release any information on that?
Link Posted: 3/15/2005 7:46:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/15/2005 8:33:54 AM EDT by JohnM]
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