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Posted: 12/7/2003 11:08:04 PM EDT
I'm still doing a little checking around before I actually go and build my first AR.

Everybody keeps telling me to buy the flattop with the removable carry handle. I haven't seen anybody who actually changes it. Either off with a flat top mount or on all the time with a carry handle mount.

I'm planning on a trijicon but still people are telling me to buy the removable type of handle.. Any particular reasoning behind this????
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 1:58:45 AM EDT
None except as a backup iron sight (BUIS). Either get the handle or get a different BUIS like a flip up or the LMT fixed. If you ever take your optic off (by choice or because it boke), you are going to need it. Perhaps you will never remove your optics and they won't fail, in which case you won't need the iron sight. If you are trying to stay under a small budget, don't bother if you alreay have an optic. Since you are getting a Trijicon, that obviously doesn't apply to you, but what are you going to use until you get it? I have lots of carry handles, never use them, but that's because I have optics and backup flip up iron sights for my flat tops.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 3:28:43 AM EDT
Why buy the carry handle if you're eventually going to put an ACOG on the rifle? When you go with the ACOG, you'll want a good BUIS anyway. Just get the flattop and buy an ARMS 40 or other good quality BUIS. Heck, you'll probably SAVE money doing this as the carry handle will run you around $100 and a good BUIS can be had for less. Just shoot the rifle with the BUIS until you decide on an optic. One other thought. If you ever need to see the BUIS, you can get rid of it pretty quickly in the EE without taking a beating on price. I'm guessing the carry handle won't have as many interested buyers and probably won't have as good of a re-sale value either. Hope this helps.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 6:32:14 AM EDT
No point. I have one because when I first bought my flat-top it came with one. ARMS #40A is just better in every regard.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:09:47 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2003 7:11:10 AM EDT by JTinIN]
Originally Posted By Snaps: Everybody keeps telling me to buy the flattop with the removable carry handle.
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Think part of the issue, is while the recommendation to purchase the flattop which [b]can use[/b] the removable carry handle is correct and we are all in agreement, not everyone always realizes the other options. Can not go wrong with the ARMs #40 or for a fixed BUIS the LMT. Both which work well with Aimpoints and Eotechs. Several of the members have fitted the ARMS #40 under there ACOG with several thou to spare [;)], however no direct experence until Dec 26th.* I currently have a KAC sight as it fits under higer power scopes a little easier, plus picked it up at a show in the dark ages (pre AR15.com). The KaC 300 meter sight fits nearly any place you have the rail distance (low profile) and I still like the KAC 600 meter sight for the range adjustment and if was going to shoot only at a distance and/or bullseyes then would be great, however, really miss the large apperature for closer / faster targets * Thus hoping an extra ARMS #40 shows up in my stocking on Christmas so the KAC sight can move under the Leupold mil dot and the #40 goes with the TA31 (.... this is asumming some elf does not keep it to hunt deer with ... LOL).
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 7:57:36 AM EDT
Buy the flat top upper with a detachable carrying handle and cut the handle to form a nice soild back up iron sight. [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/guns/buis2.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:11:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SMGLee: Buy the flat top upper with a detachable carrying handle and cut the handle to form a nice soild back up iron sight.
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Just curious, what's the benefit in doing that instead of saving money and getting an ARMS 40?
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:30:28 AM EDT
Just for users who like a permanent rock solid rear iron sight and still be able to mount a red dot. I kind of like this option, it is fast and the iron is always there if you need it. no fuss.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:37:03 AM EDT
Any differences between the home built and LMT unit (besides cost)?
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 8:41:58 AM EDT
I really don't think so. LMT seem to be very soild, but I can't see anyone braking the home build cut handle neither. I give my cut unit to a friend and stuck to the LMT I got from Wes.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 10:57:18 AM EDT
I'm starting to get the point here. Maybe I'm just kind of stuck on one style. I got used to the carry handle and using the sights in that, and I grew up learning to shoot on high, see-through mounts so that carry handle mount is comfortable for me. Appriciate the input all.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 11:14:36 AM EDT
I always keep one carry handle in the house, just in case need something for a new upper or I guess to carry the M16 .... LOL
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 11:52:18 AM EDT
I got the carry handle b/c it is my first AR, and I wanted to learn how to use the standard A2 sight configuration before moving on to optics and BUIS. The carry handle is more versatile in terms of adjustments than most BUIS pieces. It just makes sense to me that a newbie should want to learn on the real sights before getting spoiled with optics and the like. That way, the shooter will be skilled in the use of all sighting configurations, not just skill with an optic. In the end I either have the option to chop the handle, or simply take it off and add a BUIS. The learning experience is worth $100 to me, and there may be a day where I want to take all that stuff off and go with the carry handle for KISS reasons. It makes perfect sense to me, but some people are still confused by my reasoning. B9
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 12:59:09 PM EDT
One thing i've always liked about the carry handle is that you can still use the sights under what ever optic you decide to put on top. How strong is the lock between the removable handle and the upper?
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 2:08:55 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 12/8/2003 2:10:43 PM EDT by DevL]
Originally Posted By boricua9mm: I got the carry handle b/c it is my first AR, and I wanted to learn how to use the standard A2 sight configuration before moving on to optics and BUIS. The carry handle is more versatile in terms of adjustments than most BUIS pieces.
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This is simply not true. Many BUIS have the same aperature as the one on the carry handle and there are versions that adjust to 600m if you want that. If you will be using a scope you will ruin your cheekweld by going on top of the carry handle. If you use a red dot you can use the irons through the red dot. You can learn the irons with a BUIS the same as a carry handle so there is simply no advantage...only disadvantages. There is no logical reason to get the carry handle for an A3 upper unless someone gives it to you so cheap you can sell it and make a profit. If you want a carry handle get an A1 or A2 upper and save a lot of money and a half pound of useless weight.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 2:36:02 PM EDT
I keep my carry handle around just in case my primary optics are down for any length of time (hasnt happened with the Aimpoint or my ACOG) or if I get the bug to get better with irons again.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 2:39:33 PM EDT
But why the carry handle over BUIS? They are equally effective as the carry handle and you dont have to sight the thing back in every time because you switched irons.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 2:41:50 PM EDT
My BUIS is the ARMS 40. I have it in case the optic goes down and I need irons NOW. If have to take the optics off for any length of time, Id rather have a fixed iron than a folding one. But thats just me.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 2:42:09 PM EDT
The one area that appears to be missing from folding rear iron sights (not that is it really needed for a back up sight) is an adjustable appearture and continus adjustments for elevation (the KAC 600 has the adjustment but only the smaller apperature). For a variable apperature (big and little) the ARMS #40 comes close to be adjustable for elevation, with two and a half settings (larger appearture, small apperature and notch being the half).
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 3:22:49 PM EDT
They make good keychains![:D]
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 3:41:33 PM EDT
I was just reading another thread about the trijicon mounts that say they don't fit quite right in the removable carry handle. Just because it's a bit more narrow than the regular type. this place is just great to keep getting more and more information to make you rethink everything you think you decide.[:D]
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 10:29:09 AM EDT
Everybody keeps telling me to buy the flattop with the removable carry handle
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This is really two pieces of advice: 1) buy a flattop and 2) buy a carry handle. Most people here would agree with the first part, but not the second. Since many of the Back Up Iron Sights are cheaper than most carry handles there's little reason to pay more for a less-versatile handle. Unless you really needed the dial-a-distance adjustments, but you can get a Bushmaster BUIS with the wheel for less than a handle too.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 12:26:23 PM EDT
I'm still pretty much leaning towards the normal carry handle reciever. Slap a trijicon ontop of that and use the normal sights as a backup. I learned to shoot M-16s with that sight. But I'm going to wait till Sept if the ban dies I'll be able to save some money. If I do go with the flattop I'll still probably get a carry handle and put the optics ontop of that.. I just wasn't sure if there was a big advantage with it.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 12:32:54 PM EDT
Optics on top of the carry handle are too high for a good cheek weld. Compact ACOG is about the only thing that's low enough to be usable mounted to a carry handle. If you get a flat-top you can mount the ACOG directly to the flat-top and it'll be a a better height.
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 4:26:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Snaps: I'm still pretty much leaning towards the normal carry handle reciever. Slap a trijicon ontop of that and use the normal sights as a backup. I learned to shoot M-16s with that sight. But I'm going to wait till Sept if the ban dies I'll be able to save some money. If I do go with the flattop I'll still probably get a carry handle and put the optics ontop of that.. I just wasn't sure if there was a big advantage with it.
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No advantage to the flattop and carry handle [b]as long[/b] as never change your mind. My recommendation (along with nearly everyone else [:)] is to of course [b][red]Buy Both![/b][/red], in particular since you have an earlier preference for the carry handle upper. Now around here swaping barrels is not much of an issue, so would only cost an extra $100 to change later (just got done doing that for a Colt HBAR), plus one always [b]NEEDS[/b] an extra upper, Nice carbine A2 and a flattop A2 barrel profile for the ACOG (or the other way around).
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:34:33 PM EDT
Snaps: I'm with you.. I had a flat top as my first AR and did all the ARM's this and co-witness that. I ended up trading that rifle in for a fix handled A2 and stuck a Aimpoint on top of the handle. Now life is good!!
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:37:48 PM EDT
Buy both huh? [:)]Nice idea, but I'm too poor for that just now.[:(] Damn I need to be rich.. I used to have a scope ontop of my carry handle. Worked real well for me, but the mount kept coming lose. I went and bought an ARMS goose neck with a COMP ML2 on it. But I'll have to look and see if the Trijicons will fit about the same as a scope mount or if it will be too high. The removable handles I think would probably be great to have incase I'd ever change my mind. But I keep wondering if I still want to go with the carry handle and just leave that on how things will fit. For instance will it fit tight to the upper without anything coming loose or shifting around on me? And if the optics mounts will fit on it?
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:42:28 PM EDT
Hey.. Somebody else likes the carry handles too[:)] Thanks to SA_1911 I'm not alone anymore.[}:D]
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 5:53:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Snaps: I used to have a scope ontop of my carry handle. Worked real well for me, but the mount kept coming lose. I went and bought an ARMS goose neck with a COMP ML2 on it. But I'll have to look and see if the Trijicons will fit about the same as a scope mount or if it will be too high. The removable handles I think would probably be great to have incase I'd ever change my mind. But I keep wondering if I still want to go with the carry handle and just leave that on how things will fit. For instance will it fit tight to the upper without anything coming loose or shifting around on me? And if the optics mounts will fit on it?
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All the extra flat top uppers for the M16A1 are from Colt and the carry handle fits very well, plug the TA31 ACOG is a very tight fit into the channel (ended up going with the ARMS $19S mount with in a day). If you do go to the carry handle mount with the ACOG, then can drill a 2nd hold in the carry handle to use two screws (this is optional).
Link Posted: 12/9/2003 6:54:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Snaps: Hey.. Somebody else likes the carry handles too[:)] Thanks to SA_1911 I'm not alone anymore.[}:D]
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I finally got to see Black Hawk Down last week. I noticed the Delta forces guys had Aimpoints mounted on A2 handles. Same set up I'm running :) And if you do get a flattop with a handle; The handle for the flattop at lest on my Bushmaster fit on very tight. There was no moving it till I undid the screws... Don't mind me I'm half asleep
Link Posted: 12/10/2003 11:45:16 AM EDT
cool... so it's not something I'd have to loctite on there. That's good to know.
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