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Posted: 10/27/2003 5:31:42 PM EDT
Hey guys. I'm kind of new to the forum section but I was wondering if anybody has heard about a new tactical stock? A guy in my unit saw a prototype while on leave this summer. It was definitly not a Vltor, Crane, Ace or Magpul. Apparently it is designed for CQB and said it worked great. He didn't tell me much else other than it was different from anything he had seen before, but wouldn't go into details.
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 11:09:58 AM EDT
I saw a guy with this new stock in September that was pretty impressive. He waxed everbody in the course with it, even the instructor! I haven't seen him since. I'll try to get more info on it
Link Posted: 10/29/2003 3:48:41 PM EDT
Well you narrowed it down that leaves Colt's new waffle style M4 stock and RRA's stubby A1/2 style fixed stock. Oh- and that horrid thing that looks ugly as hell and has some sort of recoil dampening spring in the stock (allowing the stock to fold downward slightly during recoil.) A horrible idea for rapid fire.
Link Posted: 10/30/2003 6:08:31 AM EDT
Sorry to say, but the stock I saw was not those or the ones mentioned by marcmarine. I really don't know what this guy had and I did'nt get to see it up close. He beat the instructor's time by about 35 seconds. When a few other tried it out, they shaved 15-20 seconds off their times. It's kind of goofy looking but damn if it didn't make a difference He is on another team and I am trying to track him down before I deploy.
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 6:37:52 PM EDT
I finally got a little info on the stock my buddy saw over the summer. It's called a "Duostock" whatever that means. He also confirmed that it is being tested in the Law Enforcement and SF community before it goes public. He seems to think it will put all the other new stocks out of action. I still can't get him to describe it to me. Maybe this is the stock that mgabriel saw. Does anybody else know anything about this?
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 8:00:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 12:14:42 PM EDT by Green0]
Sorry about my BS comment - still no pics but there is evidence of a projected appearance of the product. It is rare that a new product slips by people here. Between SMG Lee MSTN and Devl you pretty much get all the news way before production. (well being 1 year in advance with no pictures of prototypes, they haven't failed us yet). "He seems to think it will put all the other new stocks out of action." I doubt it, between Vltor, Magpull and Crane you have pretty much anything a person could want, unless someone builds a side-folding, colapsible reciever extension (which I actually tried to invent- before I realized that it would probably require modification of every single reciever [which is not good for sales] -the problem is the fact that the buffer retaining detent needs to be part of the stock or part of the folded section of the reciever, and that complicates this and makes it very hard to do without a lot of new parts or a modified reciever.) Hey I thought of it first but I would more than happy if someone else made it or provided the service, I would just like to buy one. (oh and the OA-96 system does not count- it is 2inches longer than it needs to be and it requires a different auto sear and chopped bolt carrier to function.) (like I said there is a recoil absorbent stock out there but it is a piece of shit and it hasn't got a real future with any real professional operators.)
Link Posted: 11/5/2003 9:06:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/5/2003 9:09:23 PM EDT by LordStoner]
Green-O You should check Dogpile.com sometime before you spout off. LS Duostock domain is registered, check it out: [url]http://www.duostock.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 12:11:58 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/6/2003 12:12:36 PM EDT by Green0]
FOLKS WE HAVE A SINGLE PAGE SITE WITH NO PICTURES OF THE PRODUCT. WOW! AMAZING, REVOLUTIONARY.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 12:52:26 PM EDT
I am just hoping Rich goes through with the idea he had for the sniper stock tail unit for the MSS Magpul stock... battery powered, gyroscopically stabilized. That would really be revolutionary. And to be honest I really dont have any insider info to compare to SMGLee's or MSTN's when it comes to new products.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 1:48:12 PM EDT
Hmmm, two new posters with 3-5 posts - both of whom have about 50% of their posts discussing this wonderous new "Duostock" product that can shave 15-20 seconds off of run times? Even more interesting, in a forum that was discussing the 6.8mm and Block II projects over a year before their release, they are the only two to have seen this new stock. I'll be happy if its true but I smell a marketing campaign for an as yet nonexistent product.
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 4:05:21 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Bartholomew_Roberts: Hmmm, two new posters with 3-5 posts - both of whom have about 50% of their posts discussing this wonderous new "Duostock" product that can shave 15-20 seconds off of run times? Even more interesting, in a forum that was discussing the 6.8mm and Block II projects over a year before their release, they are the only two to have seen this new stock. I'll be happy if its true but I smell a marketing campaign for an as yet nonexistent product.
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Excellent work Inspector Clouseau!! I smell some free marketing! -Cato
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 8:47:05 PM EDT
"battery powered, gyroscopically stabilized. " I don't remember where but I saw an article about a guy aking these (they were big heavy and shaped like a volleyball attached to the bottom of the buttstock of a rifle.) The guy claimed to be shooting 1MOA offhand at 600M with his bolt gun and that stock. I thought "Wow I'll have to buy one when they come out" then I waited and they never did. They would deffinitely be an awesome product. I hope someone does it (and maybe they can make one smaller than a volleyball this time.) : )
Link Posted: 11/6/2003 8:50:56 PM EDT
I'll bet that Birdman will be carrying them. [;D]
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 5:17:09 PM EDT
Ok, for the record: 1. I have no interest in any marketing scheme! Period! 2. I do not know what the Duostock is. I agree that the website doesn't tell us a hell of alot and maybe BS I don't know what the name is for the stock that I described. It may or may not be the stock that marcmarine described. 3. I'm sorry I don't have a lot of posts like so many of you internet warriors. I happened to be playing with the Kurds until this summer so I didn't have the time to write 3.2 long winded posts a day(2101 posts since Jan 02, do the math) I just happened to see the post by marcmarine and thought I'd try to help him out. Doesn't look like any of you helped him much. 4. The fact is, I didn't beleive the story of this guy beating the best time by over 30 secs either. For those of you that have never been in a live fire shoot house, 30 seconds is an eternity! I verified the story with a friend but I still haven't caught up with the guy who has the stock. He is in another Batallion and our paths don't cross too often 5. I do know it wasn't any of the stocks listed above and I want to track this down as I will be headed east this Jan. Those other stocks have lots of bells and whistles and you guys can debate them all day, but the fact is, there just versions of the same thing. I want something that gives me an edge. you guys do whatever the hell you please.
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 8:47:14 PM EDT
"5. I do know it wasn't any of the stocks listed above and I want to track this down as I will be headed east this Jan. Those other stocks have lots of bells and whistles and you guys can debate them all day, but the fact is, there just versions of the same thing. I want something that gives me an edge. you guys do whatever the hell you please." Why don't you calm down, this is my #1 hobby, not some phsyco fantasy wet dream that I am really a operator or some shit like that. I'm just a standard infantry soldier one weekend a month; the rest of the time I like to get my tasks completed and come here and shoot the shit. "but the fact is, there just versions of the same thing. " [b]Unless you mean a device used to shoulder a weapon this is really way off. The Crane and Vltor are similar (I can see the parralels - though one has a closed buttplate and rubber recoil pad and the other has modular removeable accessories, and an open buttpad).[/b] Here's how I see it: Crane: Enhanced cheekweld, battery tubes, rubber buttpad, closed butt for better recoil distribution. 2 sling points, and lanyard hole (needed to retain the stock when removed for access to battery tubes, if sling is not in place). Vltor Enhanced cheekweld, modular accessories, battery tubes, improved buttplate angle geometry (that slight angle you see- like new M4 stocks), open butt (this limits surface area for recoil distribution.), QD swivels built in. Lightning holes- these may be a negative as they can hold dirt and sand, but they can be covered with tape too. M93 Totally different concept, fixed cheek-weld area- ajustable buttplate for length of pull, modular accessory mounting capability, integral 1913 rails, more rigid design Ace a big POS, not really worth talking about, strength is important but if you have to lose that many features to get it it is not worth it. [b]Hopefully now you understand why we are really talking about four different stocks here, not 4 copies of the same thing. You allready have choices, a lot of good choices too. (and if you don't like these or have problems making up your mind, you can keep the std Colt 4-pos, waffle sided M4 stock that's probably allready attached to your issue weapon [it is a decent stock too IMO it is a lot better than the ACE] [/b] By the way most courses I've heard of are 45 seconds to a minute and a half long, and involve some running and a little shooting, I would say cutting 1/3 to half a time is about supernatural. (Like skiing- 50 people go down the course, the difference between first and last place can be 4 seconds or less.)
Link Posted: 11/9/2003 9:30:25 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/9/2003 9:31:28 PM EDT by DevL]
[url]http://www.duostock.com[/url]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:59:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 6:00:45 AM EDT by Duffy]
It's my opinion only training could produce that kind of result, equipment helps but isn't as crucial as good and long training and your head switched on. Give a well trained person a standard 20" rifle with A2 stock, I believe he'll be much more effective than a person half trained with the latest and greatest improvements on the weapon. AR15 has been around for a long time, I think a lot of variations of the theme have been introduced and thought of, like forward grip, Crane, etc. I'm interested in seeing how KAC, ARMS and Crane had failed to come up with something that's so wonderful.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 6:33:47 AM EDT
Someone at DuoStock should try and steer this interest in their product in a positive direction instead of letting alot of negative talk take hold of this. It seems that the wave has gained momentum and they should contribute before 2004 rather than watch it fizzle and die now. I would think that if they take the time to put up that single page website that they would at least add an email link to it so there could be some communication. Is there anyone awake at Duostock HQ this morning....Hello?....Hello?
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 10:01:16 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 10:06:09 AM EDT by Green0]
Still waiting on the folding, collapsible buttstock. : ) If I had a big plant like KAC I could swing it. I just thought of two ideas, a latch that only allowed the stock to fold with the weapon on safe, and a cam that locked the BC in place while the stock was folded.... It's like that song, "If I had a million dollars.." Sorry got carried away> "Haven't you allways wanted a sidefolding-collapsible buttstock?"
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 12:48:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 2:21:10 PM EDT by Lurch]
Methinks this guy could shave an additional 20 seconds off his time by skipping a Double QuarterPounder value meal a week. Edit - huh....the duostock page is down now. All in all, it's a fugly stock. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/070283.jpg[/img]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 5:33:10 PM EDT
So, that's the duostock? Now I see where they get the name for it. It functions as a stock. Then you can use it for hockey, golf(great for chipping out of sand), etc.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 6:29:35 PM EDT
If that's in fact the Duostock, it's just another variation of the theme. The Magpull and Vltor are much more useful and have more potential for further development, this ugly bat wing shaped thing will probably never be seen in any serious defensive shooter's hands.
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 6:30:30 PM EDT
As Fugly as it is, some poor soul will probably buy one. [V]
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 6:42:28 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/10/2003 7:44:13 PM EDT by Duffy]
Isn't it strange that after all these years since firearms have been around, invented, engineered, developed, and product improved, nobody ever put a huge stock for any rifle? Maybe it's because it's impractical? This is a dead end product [img]www.skadi.net/forum/images/smilies/skadi_forum/tombston.gif[/img] IMHO. They went through all the trouble to make a huge and contoured butt pad and still neglected to give the shooter a better cheekweld like the Crane, Magpull and Vltor. Stock + Entrenching Tool=Duostock
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 7:39:33 PM EDT
Well that certainly is interesting. Aside the looks it appears to be very awkward the stock latch it trimmed so the fulcrum portion is missing, a different movement is going to have to be used... I like to get at least one of everything out there to trial just in case there is an improvement, but in this case I think I will pass. -Kevin
Link Posted: 11/10/2003 8:20:08 PM EDT
I think the butt is designed to sit in the shoulder in the low ready position and "roll" up into a firing position faster. Either that or it does double duty playing field hockey.
Link Posted: 11/11/2003 8:40:54 AM EDT
"I think the butt is designed to sit in the shoulder in the low ready position and "roll" up into a firing position faster. Either that or it does double duty playing field hockey." [b]That's my take on it too, and it seems to be a lazy mans low ready design. [/b]
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 10:58:12 AM EDT
Very good DevL, At least you can think outside the box. That looks like the stock that I saw used in September(definitely not that guy), Remember I said it was goofy looking! It is designed for CQB. I think I know what they are trying to do. OK ladies, for those that don't know, CQB isn't like any other shooting. It is close up, in your face, bad breath and all that. While wearing body armor, you face the target to get the most protection. You can't shoulder the weapon like you usually do. In fact, to get a good cheekweld, you put the lower tip of the stock on your upper chest, just under your cheek. It's uncomfortable at first but you get used to it after awhile. I think that lower portion is meant to ride on the upper chest to give more stabilty. The guy who had it is in NC right now but I talked to another guy on his team. He said they were all giving him sh** about it until they saw him shoot. He beat the instructor by being faster and got all rounds on target so didn't get any time penalties. If your not going to be involved with CQB(and I'm sure most of you aren't), I wouldn't waste my time with it. Since it might give me an edge in real life, I plan to check it out.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 12:19:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 12:23:35 PM EDT by Duffy]
I hope the shape of the stock isn't going to get you stuck in tight confines, and that you don't find out about this when it counts.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 2:03:48 PM EDT
I agree, you may have a good point on that. It's hard to see how big it is. It looks like it doesn't hang down below the grip but that's something that will have to be tested out. I also agree with your post on 11/10. Training will always make up for gear,etc. The only problem with your point in this case was that no one has less than 5-6 years experience on shooting teams and you'll just have to take my word for it that they are all superbly trained.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 2:23:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2003 2:27:51 PM EDT by Duffy]
I'm sure they're well trained [:)] I'm not in the business myself, but for some reason I always like to train on standard equipment. The problem with highly customized and non-standard equipment, especially when it has to do with shooting stances/positions, is that you won't always have it. What happens when the luxury isn't there and you're given the rifle that's a standard issue? As I've learned, shooting from a bench, using bipods will get very good groups, but chances are very good that when I'm in the field, I won't have a nice shaded bench and chair, nor the bipods, and there my over-reliance on these things can have huge impacts.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 2:54:04 PM EDT
Originally Posted By mgabriel: Very good DevL, At least you can think outside the box. That looks like the stock that I saw used in September(definitely not that guy), Remember I said it was goofy looking! It is designed for CQB. I think I know what they are trying to do. [red]OK ladies, for those that don't know, CQB isn't like any other shooting. It is close up, in your face, [size=3]bad breath[/size=3] and all that.[/red] While wearing body armor, you face the target to get the most protection.
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[size=3][b][red]While shooting CQB with you, I'm sure it's lethal.[/red][/b][/size=3]Go sell your hockey stick somewhere else.
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 4:28:22 PM EDT
I am guessing it doubles as an entrenching tool... [slap]
Link Posted: 11/14/2003 4:30:09 PM EDT
Originally Posted By darealickt:
Originally Posted By mgabriel: Very good DevL, At least you can think outside the box. That looks like the stock that I saw used in September(definitely not that guy), Remember I said it was goofy looking! It is designed for CQB. I think I know what they are trying to do. [red]OK ladies, for those that don't know, CQB isn't like any other shooting. It is close up, in your face, [size=3]bad breath[/size=3] and all that.[/red] While wearing body armor, you face the target to get the most protection.
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[size=3][b][red]While shooting CQB with you, I'm sure it's lethal.[/red][/b][/size=3]Go sell your hockey stick somewhere else.
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Darealickt- Don't hold back, but how do you really feel about the duostock? Just joking, you sumed it up for most of us. ls
Link Posted: 11/15/2003 9:13:19 PM EDT
Well instead of making a stock that looks to be next to impossible to employ in certain positions, it might have been a better idea to focus on raising the sighting plane... [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=12610[/img] or [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=14975[/img] But I am not a engineer just a shooter[;D]
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 6:35:06 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KevinB: Well instead of making a stock that looks to be next to impossible to employ in certain positions, it might have been a better idea to focus on raising the sighting plane... But I am not a engineer just a shooter[;D]
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Kevin- What is laser engraved on the mag-well of the lower AR? ls
Link Posted: 11/16/2003 4:09:58 PM EDT
LS - that is the manufacturers logo. Dlask Arms Co: it is a canadian company, that does civy lowers up here.
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 3:45:37 PM EDT
.... as if it wasn't hard enough to get pistol griped rifle into a case as it is.[ROFL]
Link Posted: 11/21/2003 4:14:12 PM EDT
Hmm...why does the POF Predator keep popping into my mind?
Link Posted: 11/23/2003 9:23:31 PM EDT
Originally Posted By knightone: Hmm...why does the POF Predator keep popping into my mind?
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[LOLabove]
Link Posted: 11/24/2003 10:46:53 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/25/2003 10:34:41 AM EDT by blikbok]
Smells like an attempt at phony-grass-roots marketing.
Link Posted: 12/8/2003 9:41:40 PM EDT
d
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