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Posted: 10/9/2003 9:19:19 PM EDT
I have a pre-ban Colt sporter, with a pre-ban 16" M4 A3 upper.

As of right now I have an A2 bird cage, but I was wondering what the best unit is I can get?

I have a Fabian Bros muzzle device on my Match H-Bar upper but I know it's not the best flash suppressor.

I've been told the 3rd gen Vortex is best, and the Phantom is 2nd best. Does anyone here have anything to add to this?

Who has the best prices on them?

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 9:27:23 PM EDT
No, nothing to add to that, thats about right. Vortex is best but be sure to get an authentic one, I'd suggest going direct through Smith Enterpirses who makes them. Phantom runs a close second but is still second. The Vortex is also reported to actually increase accuracy and my limited experience confirms this.
Link Posted: 10/9/2003 10:18:44 PM EDT
Make sure you take into account how much prone shooting you plan to do. The vortex and phantoms will create a dust signature/cloud due to venting gases downward, unless you dampen the area directly below the muzzle with some water. If you want better flash hiding than your A2, but also want to keep from creating a dust signature, I'd recommend the KKF A3FSMS. As far as flash hiding ability, it's somewhere between the A2 (softball size dull flame with XM193 for me) and the phantom/vortex; which are almost identical - no flash.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 3:36:37 AM EDT
Vortex is the state of the art on flash supression. Dust signature is such a minor issue it need not be considered. -- Chuck
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 5:16:49 AM EDT
I recently had to opportunity to see some flash suppressors go head-to-head outside at night using Federal XM193 ammo (VERY bright muzzle flash with a bare barrel). The military A2's and CAR 5" supressors were pretty good but both left about a baseball sized dull red-orange flash. The Vortex eliminated practically all the flash leaving only a very tiny light signature. It was comparable to striking a Zippo lighter and was a very dull red flash. An owner of a Phantom-equipped gun did not have it on hand to test but commented it was not quite as effective as the Vortex, but definitely better than the military styles.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 8:51:43 AM EDT
Where is the best[cheapest] place to get a vortex flash hider ?any of our sponsors
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 9:06:11 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Chuck: Vortex is the state of the art on flash supression. Dust signature is such a minor issue it need not be considered. -- Chuck
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I agree on the greatness of the Vortex, and I agree for the most part with your second sentance. I'm not trying to question or insult you as you have years more experience than I do. However, that is really for him to decide and I was just trying to give him another option. Maybe all the shooting he does is prone and he absolutoley hates dust flying up. Then again, maybe he's never shot prone in his life. I do all my shooting on top of a fine, talcum-powder like dust surface. All the rifles with muzzle breaks annoy the sh*t out of me when I'm shooting prone, ESPECIALLY when the wind is in my direction.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 11:37:54 AM EDT
The Brennan Nil Flash
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 1:09:39 PM EDT
Anyone know how good KKF A3G2 FS is compared to Phantom? I shoot prone most of the time and it will annoy me if it blows a lot of dust. I was shooting in prone with mini-Y comp and I really hated the dust / gas combined coming to me. When this BS ban goes out, I'm sending my upper to Kurt and I want to have it removed.
Link Posted: 10/10/2003 11:48:38 PM EDT
This is the BEST flash suppressor I have used. [url]http://www.gem-tech.com/m4-96d.html[/url]
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 7:06:23 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Deanh: This is the BEST flash suppressor I have used. [url]http://www.gem-tech.com/m4-96d.html[/url]
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Not willing to go through the time or trouble to get a tax stamp, but I agree with you that would do it better than a Vortex.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 5:23:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/11/2003 5:25:12 PM EDT by wyv3rn]
Originally Posted By MaverickMkii: Anyone know how good KKF A3G2 FS is compared to Phantom? I shoot prone most of the time and it will annoy me if it blows a lot of dust. I was shooting in prone with mini-Y comp and I really hated the dust / gas combined coming to me. When this BS ban goes out, I'm sending my upper to Kurt and I want to have it removed.
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From what I've heard it's close, but not quite as good at suppressing flash as the KKF A3FSMS. They both look very similar, the A3FSMS looks more like the normal A2 than the A3G2. Unless you just want the look for the A3G2 over the A3FSMS, the A3FSMS is better all the way around. For the time being.. and like I said earlier, you can always dampen the ground directly below your muzzle.
Link Posted: 10/11/2003 6:45:23 PM EDT
DeanH.... What does the Gemtech Bi-Lock Flash Hider look like?? How does it install?? How does it perform without the M4-96D sound supressor attached to the gun?? I've actually been looking into that once I get my first AR....but I haven't found any information past the gem-tech website. Thanks, Max
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 12:24:56 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ishikawa: DeanH.... What does the Gemtech Bi-Lock Flash Hider look like?? How does it install?? How does it perform without the M4-96D sound supressor attached to the gun?? I've actually been looking into that once I get my first AR....but I haven't found any information past the gem-tech website. Thanks, Max
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Look [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=170532&w=searchPop]here[/url] for pictures. Not hard to install, but if you are ever going to use it for the M4-96D, best to have Gemtech do it or your can won't be warrantied. DevL uses one without the can, but it's not much better than a standard A2 though the unit is more precision built and better accuracy wise than the standard A2. I use them for my M4-96D, but all the rest of my uppers use the Vortex.
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 8:59:41 AM EDT
Thanks a ton Mike! I've been having trouble getting any accurate finds with the search engine on this site. Doesn't work like most BB's. Can you use Gem-Tech's distributor list?? They have a company listed here in Austin under that list....so if they installed it would the Gem-Tech warranty carry over?? Also, on a first build....without yet having any sort of Lvl II permit for the Gem-tech, would you recommend just going with a Vortex and then getting the bi-lock after you were accepted for the Lvl II license to hold the M4-96D?? Seems like that would be a smarter move just in case.... Max
Link Posted: 10/12/2003 1:01:38 PM EDT
The Bi-lock looks a lot like the A2 flash suppressor but with two nubs that lock into the can. You can install the Bi-lock yourself easily, just use peel washers and not crush. Gemtech only gets picky when you use the can on non-Colt uppers under 14.5" If you install it on a short upper you better be sure that the barrel threading is concentric to the bore or you will get baffle strikes.
Link Posted: 10/13/2003 1:37:00 AM EDT
Originally Posted By Ishikawa: Thanks a ton Mike! I've been having trouble getting any accurate finds with the search engine on this site. Doesn't work like most BB's. Can you use Gem-Tech's distributor list?? They have a company listed here in Austin under that list....so if they installed it would the Gem-Tech warranty carry over?? Also, on a first build....without yet having any sort of Lvl II permit for the Gem-tech, would you recommend just going with a Vortex and then getting the bi-lock after you were accepted for the Lvl II license to hold the M4-96D?? Seems like that would be a smarter move just in case.... Max
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Max, I suggest calling Gemtech directly to ask them about licensed distributors mounting the Bilock for use with a suppressor. In general Phil told me they prefer the Colt or Bushy barrels (that was some years ago, they may accept others no) no shorter than 11.5". They will mount it on a shorter barrel, but may not warranty it. If you are not real close to buying and getting the paperwork done on the M4-96D, or any other can for that matter, I would personally stick on the Vortex - it's just outrageously effective. Once you get the FH/Suppressor setup of your choice, swap. You can keep the Vortex for another rifle, or easily sell it. They are so good I RARELY see anyone wanting to sell theirs. However, that's just me. If you are really budget conscious, go ahead and get the bilock. Don't even worry about Gemtech mounting it until you get the M4-96D. If you get the money to buy that can, you will surely be able to afford Gemtech remounting the Bilock for you, it's well worth it for the warranty. If Gemtech mounts the bilock and blesses it, they will fix just about ANYTHING bad that happens from the bilock forward, even if it's your fault. P.S. I agree, I think the search function sucks on this board, I want to be able to search thread content as the thread titles are not always indicative of post content. However, some search function is better than none. And since non-members don't even get to have the search function, I forgive them quite a bit for repeat threads. (Hear that, DevL? [;D]
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