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Posted: 9/1/2003 9:17:07 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2003 7:36:13 PM EDT by OKLAHOMA_LAWMAN]
I will be going back to rifle school in Oct. Last year I took my 16" Hbar, but this year I will be buying a 20" for the class. Should I go ahead and purchase the Hbar or go with the Government profile model?
Link Posted: 9/1/2003 9:28:34 PM EDT
I like them both. If ya gotta hump it, go gov't. If not, go Hbar. Jon
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 5:07:07 AM EDT
The government profile will weigh about the same as your 16" HBAR. The 20" HBAR will be almost a pound heavier.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 5:25:53 AM EDT
Ever have to cover a target for any length of time? Lighter is better. H-bars are for belt-feds.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 9:32:35 AM EDT
I just buy fluted HBARS.... little extra money but best of both worlds. Afterall I only have 2 rifles now (how many barrels do I need?).
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 9:50:19 AM EDT
I have come to the conclusion that on LEO weapons, the HBAR is really not needed. We search, cover targets, hold perimeters and stay in a ready position much longer than your average shooter. The HBAR features simply aren't used by us. I tote the extra weight for no good reason, and wonder why "Baby" is a fat little pig. I would go Gov profile. I still have to wonder, why the 20" rifle for a LEO rifle class? Aren't you going to be working live fire room clearing and similar drills? I love the 20" A2/ A3s for distance work, but I never liked clearing with them.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 10:42:47 AM EDT
Govt. profile all the way.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 11:50:49 AM EDT
I have a 20" HBAR, a 20" fluted and and a 20" A2 profile. The like the A2 the best. The accuracy is about the same for all 3, but the A2 has much better balance. Because of the weight difference, it is more likely to be in your hands rather than slung. IIRC the A2 weighs 7.5 pounds, the fluted 8 pounds and the HBAR 8.5 pounds. It seems like more though, as the barrel acts like a lever and magnifies the weight.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 1:58:44 PM EDT
Another vote for Gov't profile. On a bare rifle, the extra weight of the HBAR is tolerable if you don't have to carry it all day. If you add a flashlight and optics, the weight difference becomes more noticeable.
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 2:30:16 PM EDT
Gubmit profile for my 20" rifles. The quasi SPR I plan on building may be an exception. I had a BM 16" HBAR with AK brake and it felt unnaturally front heavy so I sold it to get a BM M4 equivalent.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 6:12:27 AM EDT
Heck if you're going to a class I'd reccommend the 16' Lightweight. If you must have a 20" though - definately the govt profile.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 7:58:27 AM EDT
Here are 2 figures I was looking at a couple weeks ago. Bushy 16in M4 conture dissipator 2.3lbs Bushy 16in HBAR fluted dissipator 2.6lbs One barrel has heat problems and the other does not. I bought the one that was 4.8oz heavier and cost $50 more. The 20in std barrels make this difference even less as they don't have 2 gas blocks that (they don't flute where they put gas blocks.)
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 7:41:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Stickman: I have come to the conclusion that on LEO weapons, the HBAR is really not needed. We search, cover targets, hold perimeters and stay in a ready position much longer than your average shooter. The HBAR features simply aren't used by us. I tote the extra weight for no good reason, and wonder why "Baby" is a fat little pig. I would go Gov profile. I still have to wonder, why the 20" rifle for a LEO rifle class? Aren't you going to be working live fire room clearing and similar drills? I love the 20" A2/ A3s for distance work, but I never liked clearing with them.
View Quote
The class is about a week long. We shoot from 100 yards up to 50 yards. There is a lot of sitting, prone, standing shooting. The only time we run with the rifle is when we do a drill at 100 yards to 200 yards
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 8:20:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 9/3/2003 8:25:15 PM EDT by Luckystiff]
Sounds like a crappy LE rifle school, IMHO. [:|] I went through a LE patrol carbine instructor school earlier this year. We spend 80% of our time at 0 to 30 yards. Most LE shootings are 0-7 yards. At these ranges light weight is the shit and short makes life just a little easier. [soapbox] If this is the class you are being sent to, then work with what you've got. A 20 inch Gov. Profile is much better for what you need out of this rifle. If your bench shooting then the HBAR has it place. A 16 or 14.5 inch light weight or M4 barrel is my personal preference for 99% of the stuff I do as an LEO. Just my $.02. [peep]
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 8:35:16 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Luckystiff: Sounds like a crappy LE rifle school, IMHO. [:|] I went through a LE patrol carbine instructor school earlier this year. We spend 80% of our time at 0 to 30 yards. Most LE shootings are 0-7 yards. At these ranges light weight is the shit and short makes life just a little easier. [soapbox] If this is the class you are being sent to, then work with what you've got. A 20 inch Gov. Profile is much better for what you need out of this rifle. If your bench shooting then the HBAR has it place. A 16 or 14.5 inch light weight or M4 barrel is my personal preference for 99% of the stuff I do as an LEO. Just my $.02. [peep]
View Quote
The class is a instructor class we have to score a 90% to pass the class 20 shots total in the target, 100, 75, 50 yards away. Last year it was 40 degrees and raining and froze my ass off and I had no shooting mat so, I shot in the rain.
Link Posted: 9/3/2003 9:19:56 PM EDT
Mine was 100+ in Bakersfield CA. Everyone got cooked. Different strokes for different folks. My instructor was Bill Jeans of Morrigan Consulting. Good guy, learned a lot. He pushed the idea of using the rifle in handgun ranges since this is the most likely ranges we would engage bad guys.
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