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Posted: 8/28/2003 2:03:40 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2003 2:04:20 PM EDT by wyv3rn]
My new CMMG/DPMS M4gery 16" pre-ban upper came today!

Overall it looks and feels very nice. The A2 flash hider is not quite put on center, is this easy to correct?

It also appears that the front sight tower is off to the side a little bit and one of the ears possibly slightly bent. I can't really tell until I take it out to the range this weekend.

The receiver is a California legal FAB-10. Lower parts kit is a stock Bushmaster. I did some dry firing and I must say I got very lucky. The trigger is VERY smooth and short, though a little on the heavy side compared to what I am used to in other rifles/pistols, not bad at all though. I am very pleased with the stock lower parts kit! The buttstock is a 2003 6-pos RRA unmarked. ARMS #40A2 equipped.

The upper, as mentioned is a CMMG/DPMS 16" Pre-ban with M4 feedramps.




Off to the range this weekend! I hope I am wrong about the front sight being off center! It's probably just me, this is my first AR.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:18:01 PM EDT
Wow, you're happy you got a messed up upper? I dunno about you Kalifornians.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:20:57 PM EDT
Get an armorer's wrench, everyone should have one and you can easily reindex the A2 compensator/suppressor.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 2:23:46 PM EDT
Nice, I always like a little something wrong "Cosmetically" with my stuff so I don't "Baby it". Perfect stuff has become "Safe Queens" before if you know what I mean. I'm sure if you do have a problem that they will correct it for you. Enjoy! MM419
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 3:21:14 PM EDT
Originally Posted By AZ-K9: Wow, you're happy you got a messed up upper? I dunno about you Kalifornians.
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I wasn't really too worried about the flash hider, I knew I could fix that. The tower I'm not even sure about yet. The more I look at it, the less I think it's off center, I just have to take it out and see. I'm excited and happy. I wouldn't call this a "messed up upper" unless it had functioning problems. Even Bushmaster has their towers off center all the time.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 3:28:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/28/2003 3:29:13 PM EDT by IronBalaclava]
My memory escapes me, but is the FAB-10 lower single shot or does it have an internal box mag built into the well?
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 3:56:26 PM EDT
Originally Posted By IronBalaclava: My memory escapes me, but is the FAB-10 lower single shot or does it have an internal box mag built into the well?
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The FAB-10 has a 10 round box built into the mag well. The single shot is made by DPMS.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 5:08:50 PM EDT
look through the sights with your other eye and see if the angle looks the same in the opposite direction.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 8:05:59 PM EDT
Yeah, that's what I did that made me think maybe it was just me. I shouldered it on my weak side and it looked about the same just in the other direction. I'm done with speculating, I just have to take it out to the range. I also don't want to give CMMG any undue negative press. These guys are great, some of the nicest guys I've dealt with in my quest to build this rifle. Not only that they sell quality parts and stand behind them. I am confident that even if I do have a problem they will do everything in their power to correct it.
Link Posted: 8/28/2003 9:07:29 PM EDT
So how's that FAB-10? I might have to move to CA and would get one to put my uppers on. It sounds like they cost 2-3x what a regular stripped lower costs. Finish looks better on yours than some other pics I've seen though.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 7:30:02 AM EDT
Originally Posted By SlimHazy: So how's that FAB-10? I might have to move to CA and would get one to put my uppers on. It sounds like they cost 2-3x what a regular stripped lower costs. Finish looks better on yours than some other pics I've seen though.
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The [url=gogogadgets.net]FAB's[/url] work well, once you get used to the loading procedure. And yes, they cost ~$300, because they have a monopoly on the market, as its our only option.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 7:53:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2003 7:55:58 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Originally Posted By SlimHazy: So how's that FAB-10? I might have to move to CA and would get one to put my uppers on. It sounds like they cost 2-3x what a regular stripped lower costs. Finish looks better on yours than some other pics I've seen though.
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Oh dear god man, why would you want to do that?!?! [%|] I'm trying to escape this place! The FAB-10 is a very nice forging. The finish is excellent and there were no burs anywhere or in any holes that needed drilling out. I DID have to shave about 1mm off the bottom lip of my 2003 RRA buffer tube because it was too tight against the buffer retainer. I am not sure if this is the fault of the tube being too long or the receiver having the hole a little too far back. I suspect the FAB-10 but have no proof. The fit of the upper and lower is VERY tight. The grenade-pin style take down ring is nice. I suspect once this thing loosens up a little, with a little practice I can reload this thing almost as fast as I can an SKS. It appears to have a decent quality mag/spring/follower, but I don't have a lot of experience with these and I have gotten the follower "stuck" when I pushed down on it. Does this mean it's not an anti-tilt USGI follower? If so, I plan on replacing it. The price is indeed high. It used to be made by a manufacturer called CMS which charged a decent price, more than a normal lower, but not bad. I'd find them stripped for $225-290. Then ShoeLess Ventures Inc. took over and the price is now about $280-$310 for a stripped lower. I think the quality did improve a little. So yes, they have a monopoly on this market and can charge whatever they want, but I also think that because the item is low-volume it keeps manufacturing costs high as well. As everyone knows, the higher volume you can manufacture a product, the lower the price is driven down. I was "lucky" I guess. I found a dealer who was willing to order me one for $269. Total cost to me was $309 after tax and DROS fee. He didn't make much money on the deal (maybe $20). I don't think he had updated his pricing since ShoeLess Ventures took over. I bought some ammunition from him because I felt bad. [:)]
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 8:08:19 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wyv3rn: It appears to have a decent quality mag/spring/follower, but I don't have a lot of experience with these and I have gotten the follower "stuck" when I pushed down on it. Does this mean it's not an anti-tilt USGI follower? If so, I plan on replacing it.
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The FAB's magazine is actually a regular leo-style mag that has been cut-off at a ten round capacity, and mounted, bottomless, in the receiver. It does use the, green, anti-tilt follower, but the "stabilizing" arms of the follower have been cut-off to sit evenly at the bottom of the mag well.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:10:21 AM EDT
The FAB's magazine is actually a regular leo-style mag that has been cut-off at a ten round capacity, and mounted, bottomless, in the receiver. It does use the, green, anti-tilt follower, but the "stabilizing" arms of the follower have been cut-off to sit evenly at the bottom of the mag well.
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Will this cause any reliability problems? What about when moving (rifle being jossled around) and firing? Thank you for the information.
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:13:49 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
Originally Posted By SlimHazy: So how's that FAB-10? I might have to move to CA and would get one to put my uppers on. It sounds like they cost 2-3x what a regular stripped lower costs. Finish looks better on yours than some other pics I've seen though.
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Oh dear god man, why would you want to do that?!?! [%|] I'm trying to escape this place!
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Job-related. I'm a whore to the money. It'd probably only be for a year or two. I'd keep my stuff in storage. I'm looking at the Mini-14 and the M1A, but I'd miss the AR's. If they weren't so much $$$ I'd play with the thing before I moved, but ShoeLess doesn't have a dealer near me anyway. I think that grenade pin would be a must. How well do those white plastic clip spoons work?
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:24:32 AM EDT
I've only shot my FAB's at ranges, so far, but I have not had any problems with multiple targets on the "plinking" range. And, keeping this on topic, I have one of the CMMG/DPMS, 1/7, M4's in 14.5" with a, new style, Phantom. [8D]
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:33:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/29/2003 9:38:57 AM EDT by wyv3rn]
Job-related. I'm a whore to the money. It'd probably only be for a year or two. I'd keep my stuff in storage. I'm looking at the Mini-14 and the M1A, but I'd miss the AR's. If they weren't so much $$$ I'd play with the thing before I moved, but ShoeLess doesn't have a dealer near me anyway. I think that grenade pin would be a must. How well do those white plastic clip spoons work?
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Well, I am starting my arsenal working close and moving further out. First I got a pistol, now I'm adding a 5.56mm rifle. .308 or other comes next (gonna be awhile). The Mini-14 is good, all you need is a glass-bedding kit and it will shoot 2" @ 100 yards. Magazines can be expensive. Personally, I do trust the M1A, but not the Mini's so much. Parts are expensive, and there's really only one source. My father has a Mini-30 and it jams a fair amount. They just haven't been battle tested the way AR-15's have. I decided that spending the money on an AR was worth it. If you already have an AR, all you'd need is the lower and you could switch parts over (even all the preban parts you want). Besides, when you move out of California, you could sell it and recoup a lot of what you paid for it. I doubt the price will come down that much. The grenade pin isn't a must, but it sure is nice to not need a cartrige or tool to take down the weapon. If you can find someone to make one for you, I'd go that route. I didn't really like the quality of the pullring-takedown pin ShoeLess sent me. It's nothing really functionally wrong, and on the outside it's cosmetically fine. It's the inside where there are little pits on the shaft. The detent slot is fine and smooth though. It just pisses me off because this little part was $20. And for 1/3 the cost of a Bushmaster lower parts kit I expect better quality than that. ShoeLess Ventures includes a stripper clip guide. It's alright, it's made to kind of loose tolerances. I am probably going to have a machinist (I know one) make me one to a bit tighter tolerances out of steel or aluminum, then I'll Alumahyde it. I'm going to try the standard USGI stripper clip guides first and see if I can get one to fit and if it works better. At the moment I am cleaning the upper and all it's parts with 100% alcohol. After I am done I will be applying CLP to all surfaces with a black cloth and letting it soak in. Then I'll wipe excess CLP off the surfaces where it shouldn't be noticeably on. Also, a nice thing I noticed about this upper while I pulled the bolt apart.. it already has an extractor O-ring around the spring. Do most manufacturers do this on a stock upper?
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 9:44:08 AM EDT
Originally Posted By notack: I've only shot my FAB's at ranges, so far, but I have not had any problems with multiple targets on the "plinking" range. And, keeping this on topic, I have one of the CMMG/DPMS, 1/7, M4's in 14.5" with a, new style, Phantom. [8D]
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Sweet! Where are you located (generally) in CA? You say "FAB's" so I'm guessing you have two or more? How has your CMMG/DPMS upper performed so far?
Link Posted: 8/29/2003 10:42:41 AM EDT
Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
Originally Posted By notack: I've only shot my FAB's at ranges, so far, but I have not had any problems with multiple targets on the "plinking" range. And, keeping this on topic, I have one of the CMMG/DPMS, 1/7, M4's in 14.5" with a, new style, Phantom. [8D]
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Sweet! Where are you located (generally) in CA? You say "FAB's" so I'm guessing you have two or more? How has your CMMG/DPMS upper performed so far?
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I'm in the south Bay Area. I have four FAB's, two early CMS ones, a later CMS I got from a member off the EE, and one of the newer "Shoeless" type. And I really like the 1/7 CMMG barrel, I also have a 14.5" Bushmaster 1/7 M4 barrel with the old style Phantom.[:D]
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 2:41:42 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/30/2003 2:42:26 AM EDT by AZ-K9]
Originally Posted By wyv3rn:
Originally Posted By AZ-K9: Wow, you're happy you got a messed up upper? I dunno about you Kalifornians.
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I wasn't really too worried about the flash hider, I knew I could fix that. The tower I'm not even sure about yet. The more I look at it, the less I think it's off center, I just have to take it out and see. I'm excited and happy. I wouldn't call this a "messed up upper" unless it had functioning problems. Even Bushmaster has their towers off center all the time.
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Whadda bout the bent "ear"? If you bought a NEW item, it should be in NEW condition, not milsurp. I think my description of messed up, assuming your description is accurate, fits. So, hows it shoot?
Link Posted: 8/30/2003 8:18:41 AM EDT
Anyone wants to go shooting at Angeles this weekend? I have a rifle I put together to test, and an SN4 to sight in [:)]
Link Posted: 9/2/2003 1:13:48 PM EDT
Whadda bout the bent "ear"?
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I'm not sure that it is "bent". First, I don't know if there is a certain amount of tolerance before an ear is considered bent. How "exactly alike" are the ears on other AR's? I'd have to get a caliper out to establish that it's bent at all and I haven't done that yet. Seeing as how you concentrate on the front post, it shouldn't make a difference even if it is slightly off.
So, hows it shoot?
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Shoots nice, I have some things to work out. I'm still analyzing data and trying to figure out what's normal and what's not. I'll have a complete review up here today or tomorrow, it will be linked to this thread. Here's one of the questions I am trying to solve ATM: [url]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=169185[/url]
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