Hello all,

I've been searching for dedicated .22lr upper for some time now. I was wondering who makes the best dedicated uppers? So far I only know Kuehl uppers and Kurt's Kustom uppers...Are these any good? What about modified Ciener kits, do they work like they advertise? Are there any 5.56 look alike .22lr magazines available? Accuracy? Cycling? All info greatly appreciated!!!!

Best Regards,
Petri

I guess I can't comment on the "best" upper but there are a number of manufacturers making them.  As for the Magazines, the only converted ciener mags I found are from Kurts Kustom Firearms.  They are expensive.  I ordered 2 but don't have them yet.  I'll post more when I can.  Watch the pistol/rimfire forum for info.  I'm still waiting for my Kuehl upper too.
Lower is ready to go.

OUCH! $500 for a 22 upper...

It won't take many trips to the range to make that money back up in ammo savings.  Well, if you are me that is...

It's not just the ammo costs.

1.  My indoor range only allows handgun caliber, so a .22 upper let's you shoot your M16/AR15.

2.  An M16 with a .22 kit has a totally different (and better in some ways) feel that a .223 one.

No doubt about the ammo savings.  I have put ~ 12,000 rounds through my KKF 16" A2 upper.

Total cost of upper = $480
Total cost of .22 ammo = $220
Grand total = $700


Had that been .223, shooting the cheap wolf at .10/round,
Grand total = $1200

I'd say that it definetly pays for itself.  

Brad

The DPMS uppers are patterened after the Colt conversion...I used to have one...extremely reliable...and very accurate...the only reason I sold mine was because it was just too heavy...
I had one of the original heavy barrel ones..

rocketman223,

how many rounds do the converted mags from kurts kustom hold?

Mine will only hold 10 rounds.  The Ciener 10 rd mags are about 25 bucks a piece.  I'm assuming KKF then buys 20 or 30 rd steel mags and cuts them and welds them to the bottom portion of the Ciener so the Ceiner mag is stock in the magwell.  It's stricktly a "looks" thing.  I understand that 30 rd Ciener clips are avail to LE and Mil. personnel but for me they are fetching about 100 and up per mag.  I'm sure the same thing could be done to them.  FWIW I have heard the high cap mags aren't totally reliable for the last 3 rounds or so but I can't say that with experience.  I don't have mine yet either...supply issue???  Kurt also said he didn't get the "straight" 20 rounders but were curved ones.  I don't really mind I guess.  I hated the look of that little mag hanging out of the lower.  (No I don't drive a big truck or a fancy sports car so please refrain from the obvious playground remarks ;)
Anyway I post when this thing comes together.  Upper is due late next week or following. Still waiting for additional mags and Tubb fire lapping kit.

Accuracy Speaks

I have a Kuehl dedicated upper and it has been great.  Fit, function, and reliability is excellent.  But, before using the kit, I did polish the rails using a dremel tool as suggested by others.  The thirty round mags work just as well as a ten round mag.  Although, after a couple thousand rounds the recoil spring grew weaker and the bolt would not strip the first couple of rounds from the thirty round mag.  I solved this issue completely by getting a recoil spring from Lakeside Machine (stronger springs).  

I shoot my M16 much more in 22 rimfire.  It doesn't take long for it to pay for itself as mentioned previously.  More importantly, I can shoot it (with a suppressor) on my property without the neighbors knowing I have a machinegun.

Here's a pic of mine:
[img]http://home.ix.netcom.com/~brownhen/_uimages/M16withKuehlupper.jpg[/img]

Dan

I have totally got to get a full auto suppressed .22LR.  What a hoot!!

Id like a dedicated upper but the price is prohibative. I went with a ceiner conversion kit and havent had any problems, it shoots 36 and 40gr .22's just fine out of my 1x9 barrel. Only problem is the .22's shoot a bit low compared to .223. But I still have no problem plinking cans out to 75-100 yards.

The kit cost a little more than a 1/4 of what they want for one of the dedicated uppers, other than that lame looking CZ one.

For the price of that upper above I could buy a new .223 upper, a ceiner conversion kit and have money left over for .22's. Or I could almost build another AR!

cykho2001, I agree that dedicated conversions are not cheap.  For me, there was no other choice - I had to get this one.  I can relate to what you're saying.  I have a semi auto 1919a4 which I like quite a bit.  But I'm not willing to spend $10,000 on a full auto 1919a4.  To me, it's just not worth it.  I guess it all comes down to individual tastes/wants.  

techbrute, here it is with a suppressor:

[img]http://home.ix.netcom.com/~brownhen/_uimages/M16Commanchediagnol.JPG[/img]

Dan0341,

That's a sweet setup!!!! What kind of scope you have there mate? Looks nice indeed!!! :D

Regards,
Petri

Petri, thanks for the compliment.  The scope is a 4X compact rimfire scope made by Simmons.  The model is 1031 22 Mag Mini.  I believe I paid about $70.00 for it.  It's not an expensive scope, but it works great for me.  Click on the link to see this scope and others:  [url]http://www.simmonsoptics.com/scopes/22mag.html[/url]

The riser mount was bought separately off e-bay for $15.00.  It's also inexpensive and does an excellent job.  The rings that come with the scope will not fit the riser mount, so a regular set of one inch rings will have to be purchased. This weapon is a lot of fun as it has little recoil.  It's a blast to shoot a burst and watch the impacts hit the target through the scope.  

Dan

tagged for reference

Dan -
Where did you buy the mags shown in your photo & what did they cost?  I have an M16A1 in transfer & I think you've sold me on the Kuehl conversion.  That's one neat setup!

jtl1952, Here's what I did: I Cut the Orlite feed lips off matching the same angle of the Ciener mag. You need to "sandwich" the Ceiner mag body between layers of cardboard. The layers of cardboard must be cut to make a TIGHT fit inside the Orlite mag body. You can use a couple strips of duc tape to keep the cardboard aligned as you insert everything into the Orlite mag. I like using cardboard as it will not trap moisture against the Ciener mag. This works extremely well with 30 round Ciener mags. The 10 round mags don't fit nearly as tight, but it does work. I didn't mind cutting these Orlite mags as they were only $2.50 a piece from Knob Creek, April 2002.

To take it one step further, I wanted to see if I liked the idea of attaching two mags together. I had some para-cord and decided to try it. It works extremely well. I didn't do this for rapid mag changes. I did this for convenience when I carry them. I have a piece of wood between the mags. I then wrapped the wood with a piece of non skid shelf liner (from Lowes). The paracord makes it tight and there is no movement. It's not permanent and only takes about a minute to unwrap.

[img]http://home.hiwaay.net/~sickler/opforstuff/mgshoots/june03Peidmont/NiceM1622.jpg[/img]

Dan

I got just the barrel from Kuehl and slapped it together a little after he started to sell them commercially.  I got a fair price from him and his service was very good.
I'm using a Gemtech suppressor.  The one in the pic is a Gemtech Predator (5.56) but I currently use a Gemtech Hornet (designed for FA .22 - American 180 and can be partially disassembled).
I've got a cheap bushnell 3-9x.  And I milled out my DPMS Hi-Rider to accept a trigger guard mounted laser.
I think Kuehl is currently the ONLY one making the custom barrels that replace the chamber adapter of the Ciener kits.
Kurt did them in the past but last time I asked he wasn't doing them but that may have changed.
Another guy that goes by the name Wilbird was doing them too but I don't think he is anymore.
The Ciener setup is the ONLY .22lr AR/M16 conversion that has high cap - 30 round mags (yes expensive if you can find them).  It is also the only one that can go FA without some custom work.
As mentioned above, it is a lot of fun to dump rounds in a small area and see it up close with the scope.
You should also make a speed loader for the mags like I did.  I am in the process of putting up instructions on my website on how to do it.
[img]http://home.cfl.rr.com/c3stuff/ciener/22sd.jpg[/img]
[img]http://home.cfl.rr.com/c3stuff/ciener/ciener-barrel.JPG[/img]
My website:
[url]http://www.c3junkie.com[/url]

I'm currently building a .22LR upper.  I have everything I need except the barrel.  Does anyone have experience with Fulton Arms barrels?

I've narrowed it down to Fulton, Kuehl or Accuracy Speaks.  Fulton has the best price, but I'll pay more if there is a difference.