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Posted: 8/20/2003 11:22:41 PM EDT
I want to build an M4 but $ will play a big role here. I just want to find a good upper and lower to match for a short, lightweight, and inexpensive carbine. I do like the DPMS lowers that ccmginc has with the ACE stock but was wondering where I could find the cheapest reliable lower that comes complete except for the buttstock assembly. As for the upper I am sure I want an A3 configuration with flip up front sights not fixed. I don't want a heavy bull barrel on it. If you guys could give me some advice on this I would be very grateful. I don't know where to start looking.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 2:28:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 2:37:25 AM EDT by knightone]
The best price for a complete lower is [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=21&t=153544]Iblis[/url] at $200. However, he uses the Mega and Stinger lowers. If you want a brand name, CMMG also sells the lower with the standard buttstocks for around $240. The next best deal is from [url=http://ar15sales.com/]Legal Transfers[/url] for $250. They use their exclusive "US Property" marked Rock River lowers. Uppers are generally the same price wise. Chrome lined barreled upppers run around $500 complete with bolt and carrier assembly. Non-chrome lined barrels will cost a bit less, but for the extra $50 or so, the chrome is worth it. It's still going to cost you around $700 unless you want to hunt for the best prices for parts and assemble everything yourself. Getting a kit will still cost you at least $600 for a stripped lower and a kit from, let's say J&T. That's not counting shipping, taxes, transfer fee, etc. You'll still save a little bit over a complete rifle, but not much.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 8:48:01 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 9:05:39 AM EDT by Green0]
I would reccomend 1 buying a upper with BC from legal transfers (a 16in M4 with fake FH telescoping over the barrel) < closest to a real M4 on the market and if you plan to hunt believe me you don't want a muzzle brake if your hearing matters at all to you. 2 Buy either a Eagle Arms/Armalite, or RRA lower stripped or complete. If stripped buy parts to complete it from legal transfers. 3 buy a RRA telestock and ajust it to your desired length (I hate long stocks) then drill 2 holes through the stock and bottom of reciever extension and roll pin (and epoxy glue if you really want to make sure) the stock in the open position. [b]You'll get a cheap M4 [around $650] that looks and feels like your issue except it will shoot better. Believe me you want to put in a few hours looking at what's availible when it will take 1-2weeks to ship to you and you might see something better in that time decide to buy it and sell te other rifle and then you will lose big money re-selling new products that are now treated as used. Been there done that (I make educated decisions and save the whole re-sell and lose money step for someone else now) The parts above will give you the best looking post ban M4 on the market for less than some ugly bushies with AK brakes. [/b] missed the flip sight part. you have a couple choices. The best is PRI's new 4 set screw flip sight and costs $179 it will install easilly at your home and is Mil-spec and issued on SPR's There are offerings by GG&G and other companies that I don't pay attention to in my opinion they are over-priced and ugly. If you buy a mid-length RAS or any RAS you can mount the KAC Flip-up front RAS mount sight for $169. Bushmaster makes 2 (one replaces the gas block the other is $90 and requires a simple chop of the front sight post and grind down (leaving only the gas block part and getting rid of the tower as in V-match rifles) it then installs with set screws clamping over the gas block. (I installed 1 of these and it is a nice unit though I would use a PRI in the future as they look better and install easier without all the dremel time. [b]remember that when you change out front sights there will sometimes be unfinished barrel showing where you got rid of the gas block since all manufacturers finish the easy way (after assembly) to avoid parts loss (front sights are matched to barrels) you may need to finish with a bake on moly such as norrel SOCOM flat black moly resin. Pete in NH at Legal transfers might do the install for you at slight additional cost but I doubt he will re-finish though I don't know[/b]
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 9:23:11 AM EDT
Complete lower minus stock from Steve at ADCO (Rock River Arms) is $170.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 9:50:40 AM EDT
I was also really looking into the MEGA lowers that are on the site. For $149 shipped for a completed lower (minus stock) how can I go wrong?...
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 9:53:29 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/21/2003 9:56:03 AM EDT by gtcrispy]
Everything that i've read about the stinger/mega lowers has been great. I personally have a Complete Stinger Arms lower from Iblis and have had no problems. The only difference between the two is the name and the Mega has a gator grip infront of the magwell.
Link Posted: 8/21/2003 10:30:37 AM EDT
Don't fall for the name brand snottyness, the Stinger and Gator that Iblis is selling are outstanding. Iblis has a Bushmaster upper and lower that he keeps (or used to) just to show people how nice the Stinger and Gator really are. When you see them side by side, it is hard to figure why the name brand ones cost so much. On top of that, Iblis is a helluva nice guy to deal with. You really can't go wrong with him. He also can get you or has just about everything in stock, so it may be worth dropping him an email or calling him. His web page is supposed to be up and running, but I can't remember what it is.
Link Posted: 8/23/2003 12:36:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2003 12:37:53 AM EDT by 82_Airborne]
I was looking at buying an Armalite upper. Is is just me or do they all have those damn mid-length handguards on them. What drew me to the Armalite (model U15A4CB) was that it already has the Picatinny gas block out front and is of A3 configuration of course. I do like the muzzle brake as well. If I bought this what kind of options would I been looking at as far as changing the hanguards? Here is the upper: http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/components/223topends.htm
Link Posted: 8/23/2003 1:21:26 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 8/23/2003 1:22:54 AM EDT by knightone]
Originally Posted By 82_Airborne: I was looking at buying an Armalite upper. Is is just me or do they all have those damn mid-length handguards on them. What drew me to the Armalite (model U15A4CB) was that it already has the Picatinny gas block out front and is of A3 configuration of course. I do like the muzzle brake as well. If I bought this what kind of options would I been looking at as far as changing the hanguards? Here is the upper: http://www.armalite.com/sales/catalog/components/223topends.htm
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CavArms has the fat M4 style handguards in a midlength size. ARMS just came out with a midlength SIR. The Knight's URX is supposed to have a midlength release as well. The Knight's free float RAS in midlength isn't a true midlentht and won't work with the existing front sight, it was more for the carbine with a low profile gas block underneath the handguards, so that's a no-go. PRI has a free float midlength handguard with rails toward the front of the unit. here's a link to the MSTN post about it: [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=175964&w=searchPop]PRI Float Tube[/url]. The FIRSH has a midlength size, although I don't know if it will work with the midlength front sight block. Just beware as the FIRSH does not have the same durability or cooling capabilities as a SIR or RAS system. I think the midlength is an up and comer. Wes keeps saying to keep our eyes out for a super special midlength set up that is supposed to blow the competition out of the water, or something to that effect. Well, I'm keeping my eyes peeled for it. I don't think you could go wrong with a midlength IMHO.
Link Posted: 8/23/2003 2:52:39 AM EDT
Knight thank you for all of your help. It's so nice having experienced people to answer my noob questions.
Link Posted: 8/23/2003 7:15:12 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 82_Airborne: Knight thank you for all of your help. It's so nice having experienced people to answer my noob questions.
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Thanks for the complement. However, guys like Lumpy, SMGLee, Troy, and new-ARguy have loads more experience than I do. I've just done a lot of shopping, comparing, and self trials over the past two or three years. Good luck. Let us know what you decide when you decide. And, oh yeah, post pics if you can! We all love pics.
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