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Posted: 7/12/2003 12:58:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2003 12:59:22 PM EDT by strongmad]
I want to be getting a 4 rail handguard, preferrably a free floater, but I can't make any sense of the numerous differences and so forth between all the systems, like which one are FF, which ones require removal of stuff, which one have an unbroken rail, and which ones have a nut or something between the flat top and the top rail etc. Also the cost differences and other stuff. Thanks.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 1:22:58 PM EDT
You most likely already have but start with a search and then run through the pages on this board. There is tons of info on all these systems. Probably enough to write a book about, As it would require writing one here to explain it all in detail. Start at the post pinned to the top of this board. Good luck. You'll probably have a headache when your done...[:D] I know I did!
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 1:45:36 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/12/2003 1:48:12 PM EDT by SMGLee]
Originally Posted By strongmad: I want to be getting a 4 rail handguard, preferrably a free floater, but I can't make any sense of the numerous differences and so forth between all the systems, like which one are FF, which ones require removal of stuff, which one have an unbroken rail, and which ones have a nut or something between the flat top and the top rail etc. Also the cost differences and other stuff. Thanks.
View Quote
Couple of questions, 1. How much you want to spend?? 2. Do you have a post ban rifle with muzzle brake? 3. Do you want to remove your barrel for rail handguard installations?? 4. Or do you prefer the snap in version that require the brian power of a monkey?? 5. What kind of optic do you plan on using?? 6. Is it a flat top?? 7. Do you have a carbine, rifle or med length carbine?? If you can answer those questions, it will help narrow down the possibilities.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 2:13:03 PM EDT
I have a 16" pre ban carbine flat top. I want a freefloated barrel. I don't want to remove the barrel, but I don't mind removing the flash suppressor and front sight. I want the top rail to be strong enougn to mount optics with it for repeat zero and to supprot a pistol grip under fire w/o loosing that zero. I want either a solid unbroken rail on top that slides over the flat-top reciever, or I want the flat top and handgaurd rail coming closely together so I can mount any optic at any position from the back of the flat top to the very end. Price is a secondary factor. Also, I might preferr a mid-length handgaurd llke the legnth of Armalites Carbines, but I realize that may be non-extant
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 2:33:27 PM EDT
Per your request, your best solution will be either a ARMS SIR #50 or a KAC RAS2. both unit will give you what you request. Those rial handguard will not require the removal of barrel and you have a rail surface from the front sight post to the charging handle. the RAS2 will have a hump and the SIR will have a full length sleeve. I think out of those two, your best choice is SIR #50 which a slim line SIR with bi level ral which will allow you to mount eight an Aimpoint or an EOTech. if you decide to go with ACOG, you are better off with the RAS2 since behind the hump, you have the flat top rail for your ACOG to hook up to. [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/sir/2.jpg[/img] ARMS SIR-C #50 [img]http://www.thermaldynamics.com/pictures/ras2-3.jpg[/img] KAC RAS2
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 2:51:56 PM EDT
thank you Chen Lee
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 4:07:35 PM EDT
How about a FF tube that does not have the top rail that slides back across your flat top, and one that does not require barrel removal, but does require front sight removal, like the OLY one?
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 11:14:44 AM EDT
If your going to free float your barrel, you will have to remove your flash hider, gas block and barrel nut. Why ? because all free float handguards require their own barrel nut to be used, this you have no choice. The only alternatives are the options mentionned by SMGLee, that being the SIR systems or RAS II.
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 3:52:22 PM EDT
Don't forget the other part of the puzzle, how much do you want to spend?
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 4:13:25 PM EDT
Yes! You'll be spending over $300 for SIR or RASII of FF RAS. 1. ARMS SIR c models (only remove handguards) 2. RAS II ( same as above) 3. FF RAS (remove sight tower delta ring and bbl. nut) sire cover entire rail RAS II covers a few rails FF RAS cover no rails Good luck!
Link Posted: 7/13/2003 6:05:42 PM EDT
4. Or do you prefer the snap in version that require the brian power of a monkey?? Ah.......Chen it's brain power not brian power... It's ok I get Drain Bamage too. Hehe.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 2:46:07 AM EDT
Hold the phone! I thought that the ARMS SIR free floated the barrel. Was I mistaken?
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 6:58:39 AM EDT
Rocketman- The SIR systems and RAS II do freefloat the barrel.
Link Posted: 7/14/2003 12:49:13 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Furet: If your going to free float your barrel, you will have to remove your flash hider, gas block and barrel nut. Why ? because all free float handguards require their own barrel nut to be used, this you have no choice. The only alternatives are the options mentionned by SMGLee, that being the SIR systems or RAS II.
View Quote
Rocketman - my original post may have been unclear, the SIR and RAS II do free float the barrel, when I wrote "all free float handguards require their own barrel nut to be used," I mean't except the alternatives (being SIR and RAS II systems).
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 2:02:40 AM EDT
Thanks for the clarification on the free float issue! Now the questions become: 1)ARMS 46 or 50 2)Flip up sight or std front sight 2.1)GG&G or P.R.I.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:36:19 AM EDT
If you intend on changing your front sight, you are only one step further to change your barrel nut for a free float system. From your previous post requesting a forend with a rail at the same height as the upper, your best option is a FF forend. That said, if you do not want to mess with Flash hider and gas block removal then stick with SIR or RAS II, with those systems you can keep your std front sight. As a note, if using a dot sight or even a scope for that matter the std sight will not interfere. If your going to remove your front sight to install a FF, and want a more stream lined gas block then changing to GG&G or PRI is an option. However, unless things have changed, the GG&G is a GG&G installed item. ...more to follow
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 8:34:34 AM EDT
where or who sell the ARMS#50, i searched with no luck or did i? thanks
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 1:37:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Vinesr6: where or who sell the ARMS#50, i searched with no luck or did i? thanks
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[url=ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=7&f=22&t=161745]EagleFirearms[/url] on the EE!
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 3:30:06 PM EDT
Damm, I wish someone would post what material the S.I.R. is. It doesn't even mention it on the Arms website. Is it aluminum, plastic, composite? Also what spec are the rails? --RR
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 5:08:12 PM EDT
The SIR is aluminum upper - polymer lower - rails are M1913 spec.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 6:56:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By KevinB: The SIR is aluminum upper - polymer lower - rails are M1913 spec.
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ok, so if I understand you description correctly. The rail that mounts to the existing weaver rail on the upper receiver is aluminum. That rail is then connected in some way to the lower polymer body which constitutes the 4 rails enveloping the barrel? Thanks for the info. --RR
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 7:15:29 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/15/2003 7:16:24 PM EDT by KevinB]
[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=7921[/img] RR not th ebest pic but this shows the SIR upper body - the polymer lower is removed and the M203 installed and this one has a shot of the it together (kind of)[img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?iImageUnq=8701[/img] not the best but I am not home and have to really on some stored shots.
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 7:55:29 PM EDT
Guys, I have decided the FIRSH is the way to go. It is FF, it is coplaner w/ the flat top reciever, it makes a continous non-broken rail on the top, it is really friggin light weight, it is under 100 or 150 bucks, it is a forging, the barrel is totally ventalated w/ an optional open end, and you don't actually have to remove and headspace your barrel to install it. Hell even if you did, you could buy a set of go and no go headspacing gauges an armors wrench, and probably even a special vice block for cheaper than a damn SIR. FIRSH all the way! (unless you need a grenade launcher)
Link Posted: 7/15/2003 11:28:09 PM EDT
I can't think of any reason why it wouldn't work very well for you. Keep us posted and let us know how it goes.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 2:54:03 AM EDT
I've been resisting the urge to buy a SIR#50. But as everyday passes and more pictures are posted......................[banghead]
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:09:47 AM EDT
Man, I too am debating....45 or 50 or FIRSH I like the look of the ARMS though...post more pictures.
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 9:40:15 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 5:49:48 PM EDT
Have we seen what yet? I don't see either link or a picture, not even one of those little red boxes with an X, could you try again?
Link Posted: 7/16/2003 6:12:00 PM EDT
Personally, the choice of carbine forends also go with optics selection. ARMS 45/46 -> Aimpoint models ARMS 50 -> EoTech KAC RAS II -> 4x ACOG models
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 4:07:00 PM EDT
If I bought a RAS II would their be enough real estate on my flat top to mount the following. Trijicon Reflex II w/ARMS #15 and a ARMS #40? Does anyone have pic of this setup? Also, would the Reflex II be to high if I bought the ARMS #46, 50? BikerScout Sunny AZ [8D]
Link Posted: 7/20/2003 6:40:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By BikerScout: If I bought a RAS II would their be enough real estate on my flat top to mount the following. Trijicon Reflex II w/ARMS #15 and a ARMS #40? Does anyone have pic of this setup? Also, would the Reflex II be to high if I bought the ARMS #46, 50?
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Space wise the Reflex will fit on the flat top with RAS II using the #40, you can also mount the Reflex on the RAS II forward top rail. Keep in mind the height issue, if you are mounting to a 'flat top rail height' you need full height mounts. When using a sleeve or SIR they increase your rail height by ~1/2", in those cases you need low profile mounts. So ARMS #15 is too low for flat top mounting, you need a sleeve or SIR for that mount. The bridge on the RAS II gives you the same height as a sleeve, but the length is too short for use with the Reflex (It will work for an Aimpoint though, with KAC or ARMS mount). Reflex on flat top height : RX14 (Trijicon) Reflex with sleeve: RX15 (?), RX23 or ARMS #15
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