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Posted: 7/5/2003 8:50:26 PM EDT
A few months I ago I had some uppers stolen from my garage. My insurance company, Farmers, Tells me they will not cover them as I have a limit on firearms and it has been exceeded. They are saying my complete upper is a firearm. I have explained to them that our Federal masters have clairified this and that "firearms" are serialized, and that these were simply items in my home and not classified as firearms as they are missing the serialized reciever and can not fire ammunition and thus only parts. I am looking for links with good info for my fight with these bastards....
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 8:58:59 PM EDT
This is my personal opinion, so take it for what it is worth. Technically, you are correct in the legal sense. However, in the eyes of the insurance company they are firearms or at least firearm related. I seriously doubt you will get anywhere with them. You can try, but remember that they have a bevy of lawyers to call on and after it is all said and done they will more than likely either drop you or at the very least raise your premiums through the roof. Your experience is very common in that most insurance companies have a fairly low limit on firearm coverage unless you get a rider to raise that limit and then they can at least raise the premium to cover it in the event of a loss. Most are like you, they don't realize how low the limit is until there is a loss and then it is too late. I hope I can stand corrected on this, but I doubt you will get anywhere with them.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 10:20:20 PM EDT
I personally NEVER store ANY firearms related items in the garage(not even a loose shot gun shell!), because I fear exactly what has happened in your case. I'd say accept the loss and store your weapons/parts/ammo inside the house/safe.
Link Posted: 7/5/2003 10:47:57 PM EDT
They are not firearms, they are accesssories. Keep repeating this phrase to them when discussing your uppers. "How can they be a firearm when I can legally sell them to a 12 year old?" Get them, no demand that they send you a copy of where the term firearm is defined in their policies. If they don't have it defined then tell them they have to go with the legal definition. This doesn't mean that you get to only count the cost of the lower against your policy maximum though, they will get to count a complete gun. They are just looking to get out of paying you any more money then they absolutely have to. I had to fight a similar fight where the insurance company was claiming that anything that was attached to the firearm (scope, scope mount, sling, buttstock magazine pouch) at the time of the theft was part of the firearm and therefore counted against the policy maximum. (so slap a $2000 scope on a $700 rifle and it's now $2700 and over alot of policy limits, when it should only be the $700 rifle) I beat them down and got my money.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 2:08:45 AM EDT
My wife is an attorney. She has sued many an insurance company, and if the insurance company tries to dick you, you can sue them for bad faith. They have a contract to insure you.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 2:55:36 AM EDT
Wow, so that flash hider from a M16 is worth $8000.00, using their logic...see what they think of that!
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 3:56:45 AM EDT
I thought you said, it was tools that got stolen. [;)]
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 3:58:17 AM EDT
I'd email the major companies (Bushmaster, Colt, Armalite, etc.), explain your situation and ask them to send you a letter with their letterhead explaining how these are parts, not firearms.
Link Posted: 7/6/2003 1:23:46 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/6/2003 1:24:31 PM EDT by DBerryhill]
Better yet, call your local ATF office and see if they will send you a letter explaining that a separate AR15 upper is not a firearm. Ask nicely and tell them you need it to clarify a legal issue with your insurance company.
Link Posted: 7/8/2003 7:01:45 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 7/8/2003 7:12:24 AM EDT by IPSC_GUY]
I went through a claim for a stolen Gold Cup once and it was HELL. In fact it would cause my home owners insurance policy to get canceled. Oh By the way if you make more than two claims in three years most companies will not renew you when it comes time and then no one else will pick you up. I currently have to get my home owners policy through Loyd's of London at triple what I was paying with about 60% less coverage so My advice is get a BIG safe and do not make any more claims unless it is of a catastrophic nature. Now since you have already told them you have had a break in here is what you do. You are committed now by the way if you have actually filed the claim. You are correct the uppers do not constitute firearms and every insurance company has a firearms division. Ask to speak with them and ask them what their policy is exactly on parts for and of firearms. Also something they will do is try and depreciate the value due to AGE of the items in question. My insurance tried to depreciate the value of the Series 70 Gold cup to $0.00 because it was almost 30 years old. That was a big fight to prove an increase in value instead of a loss. Now if all else fails check with your states attorney general on the state insurance laws. Most states require insurance companies to "replace property." For instance on my first break in the burglars took about 130 CDs and the insurance company told me we don't cover CDs which I later found out was completely untrue. They will make this process hard in hopes that you will give up and go away. Oh yeah here is something else even if they don't pay out on your claim. They will still put this as a claim on your record that every other company you go to will get to see. Screwed up? OH YES IT IS but this is what will happen. If I can be of any help IM or email me and I will help any way I can. I feel your pain I do. IPSC_GUY sends
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