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Posted: 6/12/2003 10:16:27 AM EDT
I have carefully studied most of the suppressors on the market but still cannot decided between the AA or the Gemtech. I would like to have something QD but I do like the sizes of the Piranah and the Ranger but these are thread on silencers. Whis is better QD or threads, does anyone have any experience shooting with one of these, are they quiet? I guess I just need info.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 10:23:46 AM EDT
Either one is quieter than the ballistic crack made by your bullet in flight. Get the QD model, whichever make you go with. Thread-on suppressors will loosen with firing, and have to be checked regularly for tightness so you don't blow the end cap off. The QD mounts do away with that problem. A suppressed .223 sounds roughly like a Stinger being fired from a 10/22.
Link Posted: 6/12/2003 11:32:02 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/12/2003 11:34:25 AM EDT by Azalin]
Originally Posted By 234747: I have carefully studied most of the suppressors on the market but still cannot decided between the AA or the Gemtech. I would like to have something QD but I do like the sizes of the Piranah and the Ranger but these are thread on silencers. Whis is better QD or threads, does anyone have any experience shooting with one of these, are they quiet? I guess I just need info.
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I own an AAC, M4-2000 and enjoy the benefits of the quick detach feature. First, I can retain a functional flash hider on each of my uppers by using the M4-2000's QD flash hider. Second, The M4-2000 attaches with a couple quick turns to any upper I own that has the QD flash hider. This versitility is very desirable in my eyes. Another benefit is the 35DB of sound reduction which is quieter than Gemtech's QD model and AAC's "Ranger." Hope this helps. The Azalin
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 2:12:53 AM EDT
I have the Gemtech M4-96C it is the thread on version of the 96D, I do not know if it is offered any more but I must say I love it has spent the last two years or so attached to a 10-inch Colt. The can has worked with out issue, it is quiet enough that if you so desire you can shoot with out hearing protection but being on a 10-inch barrel it still makes quite a bit of noise. To QD or not… If I didn’t already have my C model I’d defiantly get the D model, I still might pick one up in the future and it will defiantly be another Gemtech. When I bought my C model I figured I’d only have it on one rifle and should I desire I could always change uppers. This is all well and fine but it is unrealistic. I don’t always want to have a suppressor on my rifle; they’re heavy and get very hot very fast. I’d rather have the option. When you want to use it just click it on, when you’re done take it off, or not. You can use it easily on several different rifles. I know there are a lot of good suppressor manufactures out there but I have run a lot of ammo through me little Gemtech and I am very impressed with it. Great products and great people to deal with. C
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 3:30:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 3:13:04 PM EDT by Master_Blaster]
[u]Gemtech, v. AAC, vs KAC[/u]: The Gemtech M4-96D uses springs & special rubber seals as part of its mounting system, & these will eventually wear out & need replacing. It also can be difficult to remove if heavily fouled. That said, its construction might be considered the best, since it's tube is machined from a one-piece inconel stock, w/ welded baffles. AAC's can uses a single inconel spring that the co. recommends replacing at around 15K rounds of use. While I'm personally partial to the KAC, it's price is steep, being nearly twice that of any of its highest-priced competitors. However, it is mil-spec, & has no springs or seals to wear out. Both the KAC & AAC designs employ QD mechanisms that aid removal when heavily fouled; both are constructed using welded inconel tubing & baffles. (Edited to add a bit of additional info.)
Link Posted: 6/16/2003 5:55:29 PM EDT
I also have a Gemtech M496C AKA Predator. Yes, it is no longer made. Now being replaced by the M4-02 (Pirahna). I really like it. I used to use it with 22lr but don't anymore as I have dedicated 22LR cans now but if you do plan on using 22lr with a 223 can you probably should not go with a quick detach can as the mounting mechanism may get fouled up.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:12:18 AM EDT
Does anyone have pictures of their setups with their suppressors mounted? I am considering going with a 14.5" barrel on my preban but that seems so hard to do and expensive, but then I thought I could have one of the QD flash suppressors permanently affixed to a 14.5" barrel to give me legal length. I really would like to have something as close to military as possible though.
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 9:52:59 AM EDT
I haven't tried the AAC, but the Gemtech M4-96 rocks -- both the thread-on and the QD model. Extremely quiet, and very durable. FWIW, besides making first-rate cans, Gemtech has maybe the best customer service in the suppressor industry. For example, last fall I sent a .22 1911 conversion off to them to be threaded for my Outback can. I called a couple of days later to make sure it arrived, and ended up speaking directly to Phil Dater, Gemtech's guru. Dr. Dater told me it arrived but would be a week or two since there were a couple of projects in line ahead of me, which was fine. I did mention I was kicking myself for putting off sending it to him, because there was a shoot the upcoming weekend where I could've used it. At 8 a.m. the next morning, I received a shipping notice that the unit was en route back to me. I called Phil back and he told me he felt so bad about me missing the shoot, he went back to the shop after dinner, threaded my barrel, packaged it up and sent it out overnite delivery. Everyone I know gets this same level of service from Gemtech. Which is why they have such loyal customers. [img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/014543.gif[/img]
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 2:30:48 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/17/2003 2:57:04 PM EDT by TriggerFish]
Gemtech M4-96D - Colt M4 14.5" upper w/KAC RAS FF - Colt M16A1 RR - Colt 4-Pos. M4 stock - ACOG compact [img]http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/135silentm4.jpg[/img] This ought to keep the javelina population in check! -TF
Link Posted: 6/17/2003 5:38:53 PM EDT
Bad Mo Fo above. AWC is another brand to look at. GG
Link Posted: 6/19/2003 8:51:17 PM EDT
Originally Posted By 234747: Does anyone have pictures of their setups with their suppressors mounted?
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Yeah, here's a Gemtech M4/HALO mounted on my daughter's SIG 552. Just wait til she's dating age... :) swtc [img]http://myweb.cableone.net/1934/oakley/tacticalally1.jpg[/img].
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 12:31:57 AM EDT
swtc, What’s an M4/HALO? I see you’re in Idaho, are you privy to R&D items? That would be really cool… As cool as firearms are children are much cooler… You have a beautiful daughter. Best Regards, C
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:43:32 AM EDT
Where are God's green earth did you find a Sig 552 Commando, and how much did it cost? That is my dream gun. I guess your daughter has no idea that she is holding her college education in her hands, hahahaha. She is cute, and I pity any boy that ever breaks up with her. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned with select fire Suppressed swiss rifle.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 5:48:48 AM EDT
Originally Posted By swtc:
Originally Posted By 234747: Does anyone have pictures of their setups with their suppressors mounted?
View Quote
Yeah, here's a Gemtech M4/HALO mounted on my daughter's SIG 552. Just wait til she's dating age... :) swtc [url]http://myweb.cableone.net/1934/oakley/tacticalally1.jpg[/url].
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That picture is too cute! You should be proud.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 7:13:36 AM EDT
That rifle looks very light... or she is pretty strong. [img]http://www.z06vette.com/gallery/data/500/13596d4.jpg[/img] -TriggerFish
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 9:40:06 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/20/2003 9:41:05 AM EDT by RenegadeX]
Originally Posted By 234747: Where are God's green earth did you find a Sig 552 Commando, and how much did it cost? That is my dream gun. I guess your daughter has no idea that she is holding her college education in her hands, hahahaha.
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Guy in Dallas has them, $1500, post-86 Dealer Samples of course. The gun only came out a few years ago, so there are no transferable pre-86 guns.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:22:29 AM EDT
How does that work, the Post Dealer Sample I mean? Does that mean that you have to be an FFL dealer or a Class III dealer? If you are then you get to buy Sig 552 Commandos and MP5SDs' for 1000.00-3000.00 instead of 12000.00-15000.00? Sign Me Up, hahahah
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 11:14:25 AM EDT
Originally Posted By 234747: How does that work, the Post Dealer Sample I mean? Does that mean that you have to be an FFL dealer or a Class III dealer? If you are then you get to buy Sig 552 Commandos and MP5SDs' for 1000.00-3000.00 instead of 12000.00-15000.00? Sign Me Up, hahahah
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I think you have to be Class III (I think this is FFL with SOT?) or manufacturer with SOT (Special Occupational tax). It's like $500.00 per year. My brother-in-law is going through the process so I don't know the details. Definately would be cool.
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 1:06:06 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Ridge:
Originally Posted By 234747: How does that work, the Post Dealer Sample I mean? Does that mean that you have to be an FFL dealer or a Class III dealer? If you are then you get to buy Sig 552 Commandos and MP5SDs' for 1000.00-3000.00 instead of 12000.00-15000.00? Sign Me Up, hahahah
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I think you have to be Class III (I think this is FFL with SOT?) or manufacturer with SOT (Special Occupational tax). It's like $500.00 per year. My brother-in-law is going through the process so I don't know the details. Definately would be cool.
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Yup, though a C2 (manufacturer's license) has some additional fees that add up to around $2k per year. The other problem: Before you can purchase a post-'86 dealer's sample, you need to get a love letter -- a written request for a demonstration of a specific firearm from a PD on PD letterhead stationery. No love letter, no gun, BATF sez. On top of that, several of the big MG manufacturers WILL NOT sell samples to individual dealers -- they direct all C3 inquiries to their approved distributors, who are the only ones allowed to demo or sell their brands. So the only way a licensed C3 can purchase, say, a post-sample MP5 is to first get his PD love letter, and then find another dealer who has a used one for sale (either a demo version a distributor sold off, or a former PD gun that was traded in for newer gear). Gettin' harder and harder to buy fun toys. [:(]
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 1:42:11 PM EDT
Originally Posted By swtc:
Originally Posted By 234747: Does anyone have pictures of their setups with their suppressors mounted?
View Quote
Yeah, here's a Gemtech M4/HALO mounted on my daughter's SIG 552. Just wait til she's dating age... :) swtc [url]http://myweb.cableone.net/1934/oakley/tacticalally1.jpg[/url].
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Hmm, you're from Idaho, where Gemtech is from. And that Sig w/the Halo looks like the same one I saw at Gemtech's booth at the Shot Show. Do I smell a Gemtech employee? Whatever the case, nice setup. I'm a Gemtech addict myself. Here is my M16 with an older Gemtech Predator: [img]http://www2.c3junkie.com:6721/m16/556/predator.jpg[/img] [url]http://www.c3junkie.com[/url]
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 6:03:41 PM EDT
muWAHAHAHAHAHA.... [img]http://sniper.rsvs.net/Camo/SANY0018.JPG[/img] Rem 700 LTR with Gemtech TPR-S and Loopy M3...
Link Posted: 6/20/2003 10:09:54 PM EDT
OK... A Gemtech suppressor might be just the thing to convince me to go the NFA route. SBR alone just wasn't worth it. My questions are: 1. Does Gemtech make a 1.5" Bi-lock (to make my 14.5" M4 legal) 2. Do suppressors require one tax stamp, or does the weapon's receiver also need to be registered? 3. What is the useful lifespan of a Gemtech suppressor, and can it be refurbished?
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:43:29 AM EDT
Joel, 1. Yes. My new 14.5" build is coming with a Bi-lock, permanantly mounted, it's the legal 16". 2. The suppressor is the NFA item needing the tax stamp. Unless you have a sub-16" barrel or automatic weapon, you don't need anything for the gun itself. 3. Dunno, tell you when mine comes in. Here's hoping someone already in the know chimes in.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 5:45:00 AM EDT
Has anyone had experience with the Quicksilver titanium cans? Sounds like something i'd be interested in if they came with a QD mount instead of threads.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 7:50:40 AM EDT
joelfox, it's pretty much impossible to wear out a suppressor unless you abuse it (Gemtech has a lifetime warranty that covers everything else). By "abuse," I mean you can damage a can by crossthreading a thread mount; by baffle strikes caused by having your barrel improperly threaded or the mount installed improperly; by baffle strikes caused by using improper ammunition (fer instance, 60-gr Aguila subsonic and many subsonic .30-cal boattail bullets will "tumble" in the can if you have the wrong barrel twist); or by putting full-auto fire through a can that's not rated for it (yup, you can melt 'em). With proper use, there are PD training cans out there still working fine after 100k rounds. You're much more prone to have today's purchase overtaken by new technology ... but in most cases, manufacturers will upgrade their old cans when they come out with a new, more efficient design.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 10:32:25 AM EDT
Thanks for the answers! Indeed, a Gemtech M4-96D is now in my future. Gemtech lists the Bi-Lock flash hiders separately for $85, so I will buy now to prep my upper(s). I am assuming that there is only one length (1.5"). Any comments on the Bi-Lock's effectiveness as a flash suppressor? I was going to use the Phantom on at least one of my barrels (14.5"), but it would be nice to be able to move the silencer between weapons.
Link Posted: 6/21/2003 10:36:34 PM EDT
Dbl check with your vendor but I believe that the can's price includes one bi-lock.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 4:02:57 AM EDT
Joelfox, In my opinion, that is the beauty of QD designs, being able to move the suppressor between different weapons. I love my M4-96D. I have had it for a few months now, and it lives up to it's reputation. I had a Bi-Lock (which came with the suppressor) perm. mounted to my Bushy 1/7 M4 barrel. I had Gemtech do the work and it was worth it. You will not be dissapointed.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 11:52:55 AM EDT
Thanks, I will get the Bi-Lock perm. mounted on my 14.5", and one for my 16". I know the M4-96D comes with a Bi-Lock, but I wanted to prep my uppers while I sit and wait for the NFA paperwork to go through.
Link Posted: 6/22/2003 1:40:13 PM EDT
I was fortunate enough that my dealer had the M4-96D in stock. After I paid for the suppressor, he let me take the Bi-Lock, and the manuals to study. While I was awaiting ATF approval, I sent off my barrel to Gemtech, and had them do the work. It all worked out real well.
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