Warning

 

Close

Confirm Action

Are you sure you wish to do this?

Confirm Cancel
Member Login
Posted: 5/2/2003 8:16:33 PM EDT
Can anyone give me a link to where I'd find out the ballistics on 11.5" commandos? I'm looking for maximum distance of accuracy and wound ballistics out of it's short barrel.
Link Posted: 5/2/2003 8:20:27 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/2/2003 8:34:02 PM EDT by Green0]
that info is like 15-40meters for fragmentation with (62gr)ammo. the exact figure is in the ammo FAQ on the ammo board. But that isn't a big issue if you have access to varmint ammo (like Nosler Boat tails) these will fragment at lower velocities and mushroom down to about 1000FPS [b]You can get velocity off Bushmaster FAQ's and Kurts Custom firearms page[/b]
Link Posted: 5/3/2003 5:39:15 PM EDT
Nosler varmint ammo will under penetrate and is a poor choice if the wounding characteristics of the ammo you are using are the primary consideration. The accuracy will have nothing to do with the barrel length. An 11.5" barrel will be accurate to hundreds of yards. What made you think it would not be accurate in the first place? Barrel length has almost nothing to do with the accuracy of rounds fired from it. However even with 75 grain ammo I would not expect violent fragmentation outside 100 yards, no matter the circumstances. Even though you can still get consistent fragmentation out past 50 yards with a 11.5" barrel you need to keep in mind the level of tissue damage will be going down the slower the bullet is traveling. Just because a round can fragment at 100 yards does not mean the damage will be the same as a 16" barrel which also is fragmenting at 100 yards because the higher velocity round is doing so much more violently and there will be many more fragments disrupting tissue.
Link Posted: 5/4/2003 6:24:50 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/4/2003 6:26:32 AM EDT by Redbone]
Well, this would be for a home/self defense use and I would probably be using M193 or Glaser ammo exclusively.With a short barrel, I wasn't sure if it would still be accurate out to 100yds.100yds is probably the furthest distance I would be shooting anyways.What I'm looking for is if M193 will fragment properly at distances of 25-50 yds in an 11.5" barrel.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 4:10:46 AM EDT
I have an 11.5 barrel for my preban and I will tell you it is very accurate. What damage I maybe doing out past 100yds? Hollow point or soft tip ammo will enhance this to some degree, but still mostly in the 100yd range. I also use the M193 55gr, a little lighter and a little more fragmentation on distance. Hell look at it this way. The urban arena is where it is heading, we train our troops for more of it everyday. You are talking about distances well inside of the 100yd range. Eh, my upper is an option just that, I have a 20' upper and 16" upper as well so I can use what ever. All though protecting my home I would go with the 11.5", handy, light, very loud and ensure you have a phantom or vortex flash hider or you will be blind (in the middle of the night).
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 5:24:50 AM EDT
What's all this home protection stuff? Ever fire a 11" 223 inside a room? It's loud enough to blow your ear drums. Not to mention that a stray round is still lethal a few rooms away. And if you have to shoot at someone more than 7 yards away from your home, you have some serious legal and firepower problems. There is really no legal ground to fire at someone who is outside unless that person(s) is firing at you. And if it's the latter, then you want at least a belt fed 308 MG.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 6:46:59 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Hail Mary: What's all this home protection stuff? Ever fire a 11" 223 inside a room? It's loud enough to blow your ear drums. Not to mention that a stray round is still lethal a few rooms away. And if you have to shoot at someone more than 7 yards away from your home, you have some serious legal and firepower problems. There is really no legal ground to fire at someone who is outside unless that person(s) is firing at you. And if it's the latter, then you want at least a belt fed 308 MG.
View Quote
I was trained at Sigarms Academy to use the AR as a self defense weapon.I'm talking about indoors or outdoors(I take my AR w/me in the car trunk).A stray round would actually be less lethal than a 9mm round in an indoor environment.My instructor actually recommended a 55g over a 12gauge shotgun.Indoors, I would be using Glaser fragmented ammo so that wouldn't even be an issue.I also don't plan on grabbing my weapon let alone shooting it at someone unless they are an immediate threat to my life.Not sure what the belt fed MG joke is about.At longer distances, the AR is more accurate and easier to handle (for me anyway)
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 8:16:27 PM EDT
Redbone, Never mind the BS. Use what you've trained with, shoot what you're comfortable with. A Vortex is a good idea, a supressor is an even better one for you if you can swing it under your circumstances. Sure the Shorty is loud, but anyone who's been involved in the REAL deal will probably tell you that they've never even noticed the muzzle-blast/sound when the SHTF! Entry team leaders are much more concerned about how your blast/noise effects the others on your team, not you. Ever go big game hunting? Betcha you never even noticed the recoil or muzzle blast of that shot taken at game. You might want to give the Winchester 64gr. PowerPoint ammo some consideration. It was originated as a deer round (where legal) and will reliably expand at high and low velocities. Several large PD's have gone to it, and the bullet is available as a component as well as in loaded ammo! Does your state have a "Make My Day" law? It is legal to kill an intruder outside of your home in some jurisdictions, but you had better have witnesses that can testify to his intent, or he had better have been armed with a lethal weapon.
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 9:11:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 5/5/2003 9:12:26 PM EDT by Green0]
"Nosler varmint ammo will under penetrate and is a poor choice if the wounding characteristics of the ammo you are using are the primary consideration. " I saw a deer killed by my brother with 50grain noslers and it died in mid air (the legs went limp in air) The Nosler balistic tips will explode at 2700fps and they will expand down to 1000fps. if they will kill deer they will kill humans. [b]If you can afford one get a sound suppressor like the AAC RANGER or M4 2000 a .223 inside is loud It's better to be alive and deaf than dead but if you can be alive without being deaf it is desireable[/b]
Link Posted: 5/5/2003 9:44:05 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Green0: "Nosler varmint ammo will under penetrate and is a poor choice if the wounding characteristics of the ammo you are using are the primary consideration. " I saw a deer killed by my brother with 50grain noslers and it died in mid air (the legs went limp in air)
View Quote
I have seen .22lr fmj kill a human instantly. That means absoloutely nothing just as your account of the deer means nothing. Its a single example and that does not mean it can pass through a beer gut or an extended arm and still be lethal for example.
The Nosler balistic tips will explode at 2700fps and they will expand down to 1000fps.
View Quote
And they still underpenetrate and are a poor choice if tissue damage and terminal effects are your ONLY consideration.
if they will kill deer they will kill humans.
View Quote
So will a rock or a stick... that means nothing.
[b]If you can afford one get a sound suppressor like the AAC RANGER or M4 2000 a .223 inside is loud It's better to be alive and deaf than dead but if you can be alive without being deaf it is desireable[/b]
View Quote
For self defense use consider a suppressor if you can, but if not I agree deal with the noise. Id also use a VMAX over a Glaser any day. The Glaser has so little penetration I can litterally fend off incoming rounds with my arm and not be killed.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 2:50:58 AM EDT
Well, I'm moving to AZ in July and will start paperwork for the SBR then.While MA allows SBR's, it doesn't allow much of anything else.Not to mention my local LEO won't sign any paperwork for the good toys.I've also considered getting a suppresor but just for shits & giggles.If I attached it to a SBR, it would kind of defeat the purpose of a small compact rifle.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 5:52:42 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Redbone: Well, I'm moving to AZ in July and will start paperwork for the SBR then.While MA allows SBR's, it doesn't allow much of anything else.Not to mention my local LEO won't sign any paperwork for the good toys.I've also considered getting a suppresor but just for shits & giggles.If I attached it to a SBR, it would kind of defeat the purpose of a small compact rifle.
View Quote
Not entirely. There are some pretty compact cans. Ever consider the Bowers MOUT can? It's really not more than a moderator but it's pretty short compared to a Gemtech, AAC or Triple X. Congrats on departing Taxachusetts for AZ. I was at Ft Devens for a few months in 89 and didn't enjoy it much at all.
Link Posted: 5/6/2003 6:47:43 PM EDT
Thanks J_E_D.That MOUT can is very interesting.Good for intermittant use and keeps the whole package at about the same length as my M4gery.Ft Devens closed down a few years back.I guess the other soldiers were sick of MA as well.
Top Top