Theo's is the same one I had, it's an earlier model before Ace improved it.

The length of pull for the stock I made is around 1/4" longer than A2 length.  Unless Ace changed the Diameter of the tubes you should be able to modify the new version.  Back when I did mine Ace was pretty much a one man opperation.  It took me a while to get through to him on the phone (8 or 10 trys) but when I did he took an interest in the project and was happy to send me the parts (uncut tubes) to do it.

If you need some stainless tubbing let me know, I still have some left over from a home brewery project.

...not sure I understand this...all the phantoms including the one I had on my ZM use a lock washer, because it does not have to be indexed.

Bear Hunter, Allan called me last week and said that the split ring lock washer wasn't something that ZM did...?   He said he would replace the lock washer with something else.  I really don't know, I can maybe clear this up when I get the upper back and can see if the washer was replaced.  Maybe I misunderstood him?

 Bear Hunter, How old (young) is your LR 300?  Does anyone else have a split ring lock washer with their phantom FH?  Why would it not need to be indexed?  I can understand "NECESSARY" versus "NICE TO HAVE" indexing... Or maybe I don't understand it at all...  On my Bushy upper I have the Phantom FH indexed for the very front cut-out slots at the '12-3-6-9 O'clock' positions.  I understand that the A2 birdcage is indexed to the FLAT (no ports) on the underside to cut down on a prone dust signature.  Or can be indexed so that the flat side is positioned to protect lights/lasers and cut down on an illumination signature.

Mine is a fairly new one 2002. I'm pretty sure it has the lock washer on it too.

Of course I'm waiting for mine to get back too. [:)] So I'm not 100% sure.

All Phantoms that I know of use the lock washer...maybe yours had a shiny Home Depot version?  Thats the only thing I can think of other than a misunderstanding between you and Allan.  A2's require indexing to prevent the gasses from kicking dirt up in the prone.  Phantoms to not have a smooth side like the A2's and therefore do not require indexing.

Post some pics that work brother!  

I got mine a few years ago...as far as I know, it's the most up to date version.

Bear, thanks for the heads up.  OK, I think I got the pics functioning.  Thanks for your insight also.  I don't think that my lock washer was a shiny one, I don't know, I probably misunderstood Allan when he called.  I got so excited to hear that there wasn't anything major wrong with it for the price I paid, I almost wet myself!!   Happy-Puppy-Puddle-Alert.

 I am 'thinking' about selling my pre-ban bushy upper and preban EA lower and just going with the ZM with a preban colt lower.  Two pre-bans and three post-bans...Not bragging, but, where to draw the line?  Of course, this is only a thought...I haven't even shot the ZM yet.  Still awaiting delivery.

 Got another off the wall question for you ZM veterans:  M4's have "feed ramp cuts" in the barrel and receiver.  Have you noticed a problem with your LR-300 upper in regards to mis-feeds?  Do you think this (feed ramp cuts) is a mod to be pursued for the LR-300 upper?

  Thanks for your time!   -William

My old ZM has the feed ramp cuts [:)] I hear unless you fire it in auto it doesn't improve semi auto loading much.

Duffy beat me to it....the ZM has feed ramp cuts.

Don't sell your weapons...keep your standard AR-15's.  If you have to sell something sell the post ban.

....and your pics still don't work!

lol Bear calm down!  Will you can send them to me and I'll post them for you.  **** [email protected] ***

Oooops!  Nothing like exhibiting ones ignorance!  Sorry about the question about the feed ramp cuts then!

 I am just considering the notion of selling the other PRE-BAN as it is NICE, but, for what I can get out of ONE pre-ban I can build THREE post-bans!  I dunno.  Decisions-decisions!

 I asked Allan about an extra handguard so I could chop one up for better cooling, and his observation was that unless a person is doing some SERIOUS full-auto, then heat isn't an issue with the stock handguard.  Anyone else observe heat as an issue?  After about how many rounds will heat start affecting accuracy?

 Hopefully "IT" will come in the mail soon, I'd love to show it off at the range this weekend!

Here ya go, Will's new toy [:)]
[img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/pbd67013c4ab798fab3ae5485395cb0ff/fbf15164.jpg[/img]
[img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/pdfe0f45cb093db9297a2ce6232f5de42/fbf15168.jpg[/img]

Very nice. You did well.

Did you happen to get the higher front sight?

It would be very nice if you wanted to use a flip up rear or something like that.

lol...thanks Duffy looks good.  I'd be interested to know what the problem was with the flashider, because I can't see anything out of order in the pic.

...You got a great deal BTW!  Enjoy the weapon...and again, don't sell anything unless you have to, or you get offered a price you can't refuse for the EA lower, then stock up on the $100 Post ban Eagle lowers...but that just my opinion.  If I were you, I would keep a standard pre-ban, and have the pre ban ZM as well.

One more thing...replace the phantom with a G-6 Vortex, I don't think you will be cutting wire or doing any punch shots on exposed flesh.  Far superior in flashiding capability and slight increase in accuracy IMO.

I'd put an A2 on it since it's 16" already, never cared for the looks of either Phantom or Vortex much myself.

Bear- Thanks!  I was worried to no end about conducting that deal BTW!  "If it's too good to be true..."  I didn't want to fire the weapon until Allan checked it out for fear of something being drastically wrong with it.  Allan gave it the "GOOD TO GO" though!  So that makes it VERY nice indeed!

I am going to heed your advice as well on the pre-ban, I will keep it and I am stocking up on the "MEGA" lowers.  I like the Atomic symbol and the GATOR texture on the front of the mag well.  Really nice LOW serial numbers too!  I am not to sure about the quality of the fire control parts as it appears kinda sloppy... Save this for another thread though.

 About the flash-hider, well I am partial to the Phantom, but, I am thinking of getting a CAN, so I am considering a QD/indexable flash hider instead.  

 The Vortex really looks EXOTIC though...

"IT" didn't come in the mail today...Tomorrow?

Friday the Thirteenth is THE DAY!  Wooo-Hoooo!  "IT" arrived today!  With a bunch of new stuff too!

Allan hooked me up right swell!  I got a new Tri-Mount (installed) for $78.00.  I have the new TALL sights, front and rear.  I also requested and received an extra SPRING COVER without the ventilated guard so that I can put a long rail on the flat top (ARMS #38 S-EX arrives next week).  The Phantom FH was re-indexed with the flash-ports at the 12-3-6-9 O'clock positions, Allan offered that this was to help control muzzle rise...  Also has a darkened split-ring lock washer (Guess I completely misunderstood what Allan was trying to tell me...)

 I put a bi-pod on the tri-rail, but, this makes it front heavy.

 I am considering mounting a mid length picatinny rail underneath the handguard using the threaded holes that are there...  This would allow a KMC broomstick to be attached as well as other accesories.

 I will get pics shortly, and then muck-about for a few weeks trying to post them (Right Bear!  LOL!)

Congratulations you SOB!

Did you get the specially made ARMS rail or just the standard 38S-EX?  I thought about putting a rail underneath...let me know if you find one that works (holes line up with screws that will fit the HG).

POST SOME PICS OF THAT BABY!!!

Yippeee!!!! Tall sights, Tri-rail, and a good to go from Allan, you are set. Enjoy that thing, and I agree with Bear post some pics and tell us how you do all your mods. I might want to do that ARMs thing too.

BTW, My upper is being shipped back to me also. (The barrel needed to be reindexed, the front sight was canted). Allan fixed it right up, I guess he was a little embarrassed he made such a rookie mistake, but he fixed it up and its on it way to me!

I guess Will is having too much fun shooting!

HOLY-SWEET-SCHNIKES!  I am 'IN LOVE'!  Good thing the Girl-Friend likes Firearms too!  I LOVE THIS WEAPON!

 OK.  I got the upper and took it to the range and test fired it!  WOW!  What is different from a LR-300 versus a 14.5" M4 profile Bushy upper with Phantom FH?  I don't FxxxxN' know, BUT, I LOVE IT!

 I was considering a trade of the LR-300 setup & pre-ban lower for a local fellow's  pre-ban HK-91 (.308) with HK slide-in collapsing stock, NO FRIGGIN' WAY NOW!!!!  I really enjoy shooting this weapon!  Ballistics of .308 & .223 aside, this is a SWEET shooter!

 The only complaint I can conjure up is the cheek weld against a .560 inch metal tubular stock leaves a bit to be desired...   Freezing a portion of my face to it during winter would be "BAD".  I am in the process of getting a stock set from ACE and a "Cheek Rest" (?) and will post updates on that when I get it.

 Have any of you fellows ever done something involved and costly and upon completion, sit and scratch your 'noggin and perplex as to "Now why did I do that...?"  ?  

 I went through the trouble of getting a ARMS #38 S-EX and a spring cover without the ventilated guard for the LR-300.  Put it all together, and know what...?  I am slightly "peeved" that the #38 S-EX rail flexes on the front end and is therefore USELESS for mounting any optics on!  GREAT!  I will not, at present, be using NVD's with this weapon, so that argument for extra UPPER rail space is without merit.  I am not going to purchase an ITAL or OTAL laser so that is out.  I DAMN sure ain't about to buy my own personal PEQ set-up!  Maybe I can mount a BRACE on the front of the rail to stabilize a "LITTLE-BIT" off the spring cover...   What could the extra upper rail be used for???  Anyone?

 The TRI-RAIL is nice, I am awaiting delivery of a lower rail strip to mount on the handguard for a broomstick (Just used to that carry method).  I can mount my Surefire to the side of the Tri-Rail, but, that is putting weight out farther than I like, and underneath is not going to happen unless I move the bi-pod back or remove it...  I can mount an M-6 on the tri-rail with less discomfort than the surefire...

 My number one like about this weapon is the TRUE collapsing stock.  Granted, that I am Military now (And stuck using the M4), but I plan on being a 'LEO' in the future and the accessability of egressing a vehicle without having 5 extraneous inches of stock to tempt "MURPH" is "nice".

 I figured out the problem with my lower attaching to the LR-300 upper.  Just to re-hash the problem, my lower's rear push pin was having difficulty going through the rear hole of the upper.  "OPERATOR HEADSPACE & TIMING ERROR"  I had threaded the butt-stock assembly in TOO FAR on the lower and this was interfering with the upper and lower receivers.  I backed the buttstock assembly out one turn and removed the buffer retention pin and spring (No buffer, so, I don't need the parts in there...) and the upper and lower mated perfectly.  Works fine now!

 Bear_Hunter, Dude, I am honestly working on PIC's!  It may take a bit, but, they are coming!  Please BEAR with me!  Heh-Heh-Heh!  Funny!

 Thanks for your time!  -William
Edited to correct spelling errors...

That's cool!

I can't think of a reason to have that extended rail either except for military.

My LR-300 arrived yesterday. I will get to shoot it for the first time tonight.

You're getting me excited.

I modified the vertical grip on my upper and really like it now. I took the standard pistol grip that screws into the handguard and turned in around backwards. Then I cut and smoothed off the finger grooves. It feels great now and I really like it!

I put an M3 on the trirail and that works good too hardly any extra wieght.


Glad you like your ZM, looking forward to the updated pics.

Can't wait to get out and shoot mine now.

Do you think an Eotech would be a good match for the ZM, I thinking seriously about putting one on mine.

Here's what ya can do with the extended rail later [:)]
[img]home.earthlink.net/~whitman/SETUP.JPG[/img]

Duffy-  I'm not doing the ITAL or OTAL laser thing, I think the M-6 can do this for a better price.  with less weight than the M952 Surefire & OTAL or ITAL.  Just IMHO!  Of course it doesn't work if the rail isn't STABLE!  I didn't get the front piece as I bought my #38 S-EX used.  Still though, If I were to RIG up a rail on the side of the handguard, It would be as swell as a long upper rail...Right?  

 Bear_Hunter, I am trying HARD to post pics!  YAHOO & GEOCITIES are not letting me post?!?!  I will try something else, if all else fails: Duffy, could you help a brother out?

 Thanks!

-William

Here they are! [:D]
[img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p290bf2f0f5d90051d77cd0fa07f526d6/fbe4c7ee.jpg[/img]
[img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/pb3bf01ba073b55372059afd034bd1764/fbe4c7f2.jpg[/img]
[img]www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid65/p1ff45bf0fe3fe5afacf4b6e506e3dc48/fbe4c7f8.jpg[/img]

Thank You DUFFY!  You rock!  

 I am trying to jimmy up some sort of brace for the front of the #38 S-EX so that it will be more stable than it currently is.  I got my lower rail for the handguard today, it lines up with two of the holes without any MODS.  I do need two bolts to attach it though, I will be hunting these down tomorrow...

 I will take pics of this and describe where I got the stuff from!

Thanks!  -William

Will,

    Very nice brother...BTW, where are you stationed at?

    Let me know how the rail fits under the handguard, I am very interested in this and wonder if the grip cuts would get in the way.

    Here is what I did to counter the metal to skin problem with the stock....Duffy thinks it looks like a mouse pad!  This is an old pic.  Rifle is different now...will post new pics as soon as I get my hands on a dig cam.
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid3/p5df798d0ddd2cd42978f6aa16b0ecaa7/fe3ad10d.jpg[/img]

[ROFL]
Bear you still remember my snide remark on your [s]mouse[/s]cheekpad thingie?  That was in 2000, you got some memory [;)]

Ya let us know where you get the bolts, I know they are the same thread as the pistol grip bolt. I've got a rail too that looks like it will line up with two of the holes. I thought I liked the ZM foregrip till I got a AAC foregrip, this thing is NICE (similar to knights).

Maybe a strip of rubber bicycle innertube between the grip and the rail will help with the grip cuts.

BTW, Really like your LR too Bear, nice [;)]

Duffy, I'll never forgive you for that![;)][LOL][LOL]

Ridge,  thanks...lets see that rifle of yours!

Bear_Hunter- I am active duty Army (SSG/E6)stationed out here at Tooele Army Depot in Utah.  There is a Chem-Demil facility that we as EOD are responsible for as well as any local PD that requests our assistance.  The area is "OK", good prices on guns and GREAT gun laws!  Hey I like the cheek-pad!  We are using a similar padding in our helmets now in the crown area.  They only work in warm zones though, as winter time it's like plopping "Blue Ice" on your noggin!  That gel doesn't freeze in the temps that I have used it, BUT, it damn sure retains the cold!

 I am trying the stock mod that THEO posted.  I called Bob at ACE and he sold me one of his "seconds" AKFX stocks that had some cosmetic blemishes.  If you guys are interested in doing this, he said he had more of the cosmetic blemished stocks he would like to move.  Mine had some rub marks on the right (ejection) side and only cost me 45 bucks!  Not a big deal as far as marks on the stock go!  Had a fun time trying to puch out the pins in the front of that stock!  

***Just an observation, cut the damn tubes!  Don't mess with the pins as there are TWO and they don't really line up enought to drive them out!***  

I will be hunting some 1/2 outer diam grade 304 SS tube today also.  Fun-Fun!

I got the "Cheek Rest" from ACE also.  It is polymer, and clamps onto the AKFX stock rather well, lifts the cheek up about 7/8" from the tubular frame too!  The cheek rest will NOT fit the standard ZM stock without filling the 1/4" gap between cheek rest & frame with inner tube or something.  It is nice as it provides a less conductive surface with a wider cheek-weld area to the user.  Makes a perfect riser for the ACOG on a Arms #19a mounted on a Arms Swan Sleeve also!  As all of this puts the center of the ACOG right at 2 1/4" inches above the receiver.

 The under fore grip rail is going OK.  I bought a CHINESE rail and it is JUNK.  NC-STAR, I believe.  Stay away from it!  Cost me $20.00 and is CRAP.  Soft aluminum, not hardened.  Ridge- I am using a strip of bicycle inner tube to act as a spacer between the two, works swell too!  The bolts were a bit trickier to wrangle.  The same bolt that goes into the pistol grip goes into the hand guard.  This is not a common bolt pattern.  1/4 inch FINE threads with a hex-socket head.  I did find them in 3/4 inch length at a Nut & Bolt store in SLC though, at $.54 each.  I bought ten!  I am ordering an under rail from both GG&G and AAC to see how they match up.  When they arrive I will tell which is working and how.  

 When I bought the ZM it came with an A2 pistol grip tht looked like someone had used a soldering iron to modify.  Is that how you guys would describe yours? Or did some guy just have a little "happy-time" project going?

 Also, BEAR- do you have any problems with your BUIS set-up?  Does the front post HAVE to be the taller one to zero with the Arms #40 rear BUIS?  How do you like that folding & extending stock?  Is it worth the 300 or some odd bucks?  What is your eval of it?  I have only heard one negative that some Op's dudes complained of it pinching their beards in Ass-Crack-Istan.  Just curious...

 Thanks for your time!  -Will

 

If you can't find any tubbing let me know. As I mentioned before, I've got tons of it from my home brewing days.  Just let me know the lengths you want and I would be happy to send some your way.

Theo

This has turned out to be one of the best ZM posts of all time.

I would like someone to just sell me a modified ACE stock so I can swap out this heavy, sandpaper textured hunk of steel stock [:d]  Money is no object (as long as it's below $100 lol, just kidding) [;)]
When I got mine I opted not to buy the ZM grip with it, I like the A2 grip better and it went on without modification, maybe the previous owner didn't have the right screw or something.

Mine's posted on page two, it's the SBR.

I just got mine back from Allan and am currently accessorizing it. I'll post updated pics when I'm done.

William_lxix, Are you talking about the ZM pistol grip with the ribs on it? I kinda like mine. Or the foregrip thingy?

I did something goofy with my ZM (inspired by Duffy from, I think, page 1). I put the upper on a regular collapsible stock, slid a dowel and a bumper down the tube to match the distance of the folding stock. It's lightweight, feels good, and works great. But it's not folding, so what's the point? I don't know but I'm having a hard time switching back to the folder (for previously mentioned reasons). There is one major benefit of the ZM over my previous SBR Commando upper.  ZM has NO muzzle rise, the commando would jump all over the place (That alone is worth swapping out just the upper). I still really like the folding stock though, guess I'll have to do the ACE mod eventually.

I have to cool off on the modifications. It's getting expensive. My wifes going to strangle me pretty soon.

Plus, now I'm seriously considering a silencer for it (that would be sweet).

You guys are a [s]good[/s] I mean bad influence. [:D]

Ridge I swapped the lowers just to see how it looks with the M4 stock, while it's more comfortable, I'm not used to its looks.  The M4gery looks great though with a folding stock [:)]

True true, it just doesn't look quite right does it.



It is a nice looking stock, and remember you can beat doors down with it (and other things that might need beating) [:)]

Does the ACE cheek rest prevent the charging handle from being pulled back when the stock is extended?  I am curious to see what this looks like.

The foregrip on my ZM looks like it was machined to fit on the handguard.  Doesn't look like a homemade job.  If yours has soldering iron marks, it may be that the seller tried to modify a standard foregrip because he didn't buy one...or something to that effect.

No problems with the BUIS.  Did not have to get an extended front sight post.  I did however switch out the standard post with an Ashley Outdoors blade sight (it has a white stripe down the blade...matches the horizon cut in the ARMS#40).  Dimensions of the AO sight is same as standard front sight post.

The collapsable folding stock is great!  It allows adjustment for length of pull and in the fully collapsed position...perfect for CQB.  Standard non collapsable folding stocks (ZM, ACE) is too long for me, and prevents me from locking the weapon in tight...makes you feel like you are reaching out too far.  I like locking my weapon vic. my right pectoral muscle keeping my shoulders square in relation to direction of movement.  Standard length stocks force you to angle your shoulders in relation to direction of movement.  Take a look at where your standard AR-15 carbine stock is set for CQB (mine is collapsed all the way to allow for lockup described above).

Never had a problem with facial hair getting caught in my stock...but then again, I don't have any.  I can't imagine it getting caught unless you were adjusting the stock while you had a cheekweld.  Then again the "mousepad" I have would prevent that sort of problem.  Curious to hear where you got that information.  Did Allan tell you? or was it people on this board who don't own ZM's speculating?

RLTW!

Ridge....Nice rifle brother!  That SBR is sweet!!!  I know what you mean about the wife...mine is the same way.  Post some updated pics when you get done.

I've had a LR300 for awhile never got stash caught in it,But now the old style car 15 stock was a bitch.

I actually didn't like the ZM pistol grip as well, I LOVE the SPR grip though!  I have tried all sorts of grips, and am satisfied with the SPR.

 The grip I was referring to was actually the front grip, it was a chopped & mauled up A2 grip.  Nasty looking.

 Theo, I sent you an IM about the tubing.  Hard stuff to find locally.  Maybe we can make a trade...

 The ACE cheek rest actually sits far enough back to JUST BARELY clear the charging handle, course it is still a work in progress too.

 I tried the same buttstock swap with my VLTOR and I like the VLTOR but, I LOVE the swinging stock to the side of ZM.  I agree with you BEAR, the ZM stock is too long for me too.  I am a 6'2" simian, but even with long arms I have to keep my elbows tucked to navigate tight quarters.  With body armor on I like the first or second open positions from the fully collapsed stock.  Allows me to rest my right elbow on my chest equipment.   I cannot collapse the stock completely, as I have a big melon too and don't like the "taste" of the charging handle!  When I get this critter jimmied all together I'll beg DUFFY to post another pic for me!  DUFFY, I do think I owe you a brew or two!

 I ordered the rails from AAC and GG&G.  Should be here on Friday, and I will get to putting whichever one works, together.  I will keep an update on that.

BEAR-  How much does that stock of yours run?  After I get this ACE put together I guess I could always sell it to DUFFY! [;)]

 The "poop" I got on the ZM snagging the facial hair was from Allan in regards to some special fellows who sampled Allan's wares while liberating some AQ from their earthly bodies.

 STONERSTUDENT, welcome to the ZM discussion forum!

Will, if you want your pics supersized I'll upload it to my earthlink site, imagestation only allows me to crosslink fixed size pics.
If you do buy the adjustable folding stock and don't want your modified Ace stock, I'll buy it off you [:)]  Back then I thought the adjustable ZM stock was expensive, now we got $500 Crane stocks, these prices for toys are getting out of hand! I first bought the Ace stock back in 2001 when they were relatively unknown, never could get it to work on mine because I suck at even minor gunsmithing [:P]

Will,

    Yeah...it sounds like whoever owned the rifle tried to fashion his own forward grip.

    I can't remember what I got the stock for...it might be $350 or something like that.  I tell you...its strong and locks like a bank vault door.

Is the adjustable folder made out of Aluminum or partially?

I wonder how it compares wieghtwise to the original steel one.

You know thats a good question.  I never really paid attention.  It definately has "mass" to it, so I would imagine its made of steel, and slightly heavier or about the same as the standard folder (not sure on the weight comparison because I don't have experience with the standard stock).  

One thing you should take into consideration is how it balances the weapon.  The sliding folder balances the weapon very well so the weapon does not feel front heavy, which makes the weapon feel lighter than it is while in use.  No problems with a buttstroke I assure you.

Yep I'll second that, when I did put the Ace stock on mine for show, it felt muzzle heavy.

 Finally finished up (for the time being) with the top rail mod, I used a Dremel tool to chop & shape that NC Star short rail into an adapter for the Arms #38 S-EX.  It isn't the prettiest thing, but, it keeps the front of the rail from flexing.  I am going to modify it some more, but, I'll wait for the aluminum dust to settle in the lungs for a few days!  [;)]  The NC Star rail was a very soft aluminum (it can be cut with a knife!) and when I was going prone I ripped it off the rifle by pulling the bolts through it!  It is JUNK stay away from it!  Funny thing is I paid as much for it ($20) as I did for the AAC rail!  

 The AAC & GG&G rails haven't arrived yet.  Maybe next week?  After some thoughts about the rail, I am thinking that a 1/2" length bolt instead of a 3/4" length would be better.  Not really sure though, as it will take some tinkering in putting together.

 BEAR- I located a SE Voretex in EE and it is on the way, so that will be fun for me to try out!  NIGHT SHOTS!

 DUFFY- I followed your lead in establishing an Imagestation.com account.  Hopefully I won't be pestering you to upload my photos "as much!"  Thanks for all your help!  

 THEO-  Thanks for sending that tubing, I haven't gotten it yet, but, it has only been a few days.  If you need ANYTHING, please ask me first, I owe you!

Thanks for your time!

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/pd52d828bbb45cf9df173341329914bb1/fbd31dbc.jpg[/img]
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p5af895cbd0bae1990257448a639ff18e/fbd31dbe.jpg[/img]

 Edited to add:  I almost forgot, there is a fellow (Ronar15) that is looking to BUY an LR-300 in pre-ban config.  If anyone knows of one for sale, hook this guy up, please.  He has also posted a "WTB" ad in EE, so hope he gets a hook-up!

OK, not to show off, but I took my rifle outside to get better pics (lighting):

[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/pc09dcff2e6c00eebabd78187236ef9d0/fbd30908.jpg[/img]

 I slapped the cheekrest from ACE on the stock just to show the inherent problems with this: [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p268d666326f75a10160059fc361bd098/fbd30aff.jpg[/img]
This pic illustrates how far back the cheek rest has to be to still be able to clear the charging handle when it is pulled the full extent rear-ward.

 Then the cheek rest must be further moved rear-ward on the stock to clear the charging handle latch when folded! [img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p6decfd8efa894b471c25ebef643c05a3/fbd3090c.jpg[/img]

 Also, the Arms #19s had to be reversed with the throw lever on the ejection port side so as not to interfere with the cheek rest.

 Final pic showing the ending position of the cheek rest, look at that eye relief!  Too much to be of any legitimate use (IMHO)!!!
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid67/p54c75cb2bc009515c4de8252c80433b1/fbd30b0a.jpg[/img]

 And yes that is bicycle inner tube on everything else.  I know the rifle looks like "Trailer Park Trash" as it is not 'uniformly colored' or aesthetically pleasing to the eye...  There are alot of grey parts - black parts and then the green stock!  Slap on inner tube & 550 cord...  = TPT coming straight at you!

 So my conscious realization is to remove the Arms #38 S-EX and put the #19s on the receiver...  (Ever wonder WHY you started something after completeing it...?)  

"SON OF A ..."

(Edited pics to NON fullsize, Thank You RIDGE!)

Can't post fullsize from imagestation, bummer.

Ya, I'd go with the ACOG directly on the flattop. Then you can mount the ACOG further back and put BUIS in front if you need to. The long rail is pretty neat though.

It's evolving, Right.  [:D]

I think it looks pretty good.

Your welcome.

Here's a pic of mine sporting it's new Eotech.

And I have an original AR15 collapsible stock on it for fun. [:)]

[img]http://www.hunt101.com/img/049899-big.jpg[/img]