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Posted: 2/22/2003 7:29:54 AM EDT
The old thread had reached page 4, Thought I would start a new one.

Rich,

Any thoughts on the feedback from the experimental stock owners?

How did the shot show go?

When are you going to swing into full production?

When will the mounts and accessory rails be ready?

How much will the "upgrade fee" be for those of us that want to keep our Experimental stock be?

What's the time line on Accessories?

Any questions for those of us that have the experimental stock?

I know you've been working your tail off getting things ready, and appreciate your attention to details.

TIA


Theo (who really likes this stock)
Link Posted: 2/22/2003 2:03:31 PM EDT
I like mine, too!! [8D]
Link Posted: 2/25/2003 5:58:15 AM EDT
I did a test and eval with Rich Fitzpatrick (CEO of Magpul corp) and was impressed.... I'll be doing a review shortly...I'm in the process of moving so it will be a couple weeks before I get the review done...it will also have a lot of pics... BTW does anyone have the link to the old review that I did last year?
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 8:15:45 AM EDT
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 11:20:57 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/27/2003 8:07:57 PM EDT by DevL]
Everyday I try to do something to beat the crap out of my stock to find a weak point. Since my upper is being assembled I am using other peoples uppers to test her out. If I can ever get together with Brouhaha we will test it with his new Compact ACOG upper. I decided to pull the stock to the preset open position where the detent is in a rapid and forceful manner 100 times to get an idea of how well the detent will hold up to abuse. About pull number 25 it popped open to the position number 7. I heard something hit the ground and pulled the tail off. The detent was destroyed as the tail portion of the detent broke off where the angled section juts out. Now I see why there was a spare included. I think it needs to be made of stronger material. In a panic people will be yanking those things open hard and fast and 25 yanks is too few to be dependable. If you took care of the stock and were somewhat delicate it would last a thousand pulls but I figured you wanted it stress tested so thats what I am doing. [:)] Also it appears you designed the buffer tube with a steel or aluminum insert in the back to prevent this very same thing from happening and I am happy to report I cant break it. Also it appears you designed the tail unit to slip on while only needing to press from the back and pull on the main latch underneath. Thats why the leading edge is angled on the two spring loaded stops and why the rear section also has the same 45 degree angle right? Well its not working. I am not sure if its tolerances or the spring is just too stiff to allow the rear capture pieces to come together. Perhaps the angle is too steep? Also if you fixed that and removed the P8 and P9 detents off the rear tube it would make getting the stock installed and into the first usable position a 2 step affair. Just lower the main latch and slide the tail piece on and youd be done. Right now its a bit of a 3 handed affair with having to hold the main latch down, press in both retaining latches (which is difficult and painfull they are so small) while collapsing the stock all at the same time. But if the P8 and P9 are needed for other stock options in the future it would not be a big deal. Just please either make the release buttons larger with a weaker spring or make the attachment not require pressing the capture buttons to install (which appears to be the intended design) Next I decided to completely disassamble the whole unit and see if I missed getting the dirt/sand out from any nooks or crannies I could not find earlier. I noticed it takes 4 different sizes of hex keys to disassemble the stock. Not real convenient but not really a problem either. What I did notice was the screws on the latch mechanism itself are NOT supposed to be removed. After mangling one of my hex keys I saw why it got mangled. RED Loctite! It was a miracle I got even one off. The place I especially wanted to look for crud buildup was inside the main latch rod/spring housing. As I expected it has no drain hole or way of cleaning it. However there was very little grime in there. The seal of the plunger its attached to keeps any large particles out. There was a minute amount of sand in there which I flushed out with some CLP. I guess this is supposed to be a maintenance free part? On a side note when I tried to reassemble my tail unit I forgot its assembled from the opposite side as all the rest of the hex screws (which is confusing) and I could not get it to torque all the way down but when I realized I was installing from the wrong side and reinstalled it afterward my tail unit is somehow now no longer canted! However I also noted the 1/16" hex screws strip with alarming ease. After reassembling my unit I noticed it was so tight it would barely operate. The small 1/16" hex screws are almost all worn where the hex key goes in. These are much more attractive than the rest of the hex screws but they are weak. I also noted that the plunger for the main latch that covers the main latch spring would bind if I did not leave the screw that holds the capture pieces loose and not tightened down. I had to tighen and loosen hex screws all over the unit to get it to finally function somewhat smoothly. It needs looser tollerances on the rails and plunger so everything can be tightened down and still slide smootly and allow the latch to operate with ease. I hope this information is going to help the final production unit.
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 12:08:11 PM EDT
how bout rubber butt plate a la G36
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 12:44:47 PM EDT
I am eagerly awaiting the big test off: Magpull MSS vs. Crane! I will be keeping a eye out.
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 8:07:17 PM EDT
After the MSS reaches its final production form I can not see how the Crane stock will have any advantages over the MSS. If it has any advantages the MSS will quickly adapt or surpass the Crane stock since its modular and the Crane is not. Even the battery carrying ability and the triangular tail piece is being copied by the MSS as future options. The only two places the Crane stock might win are cost and weight. Its destined to lose everywhere else.
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 8:22:29 PM EDT
Well I am still awaiting UPS to deliver the stocks we got at SHOT [furious]. Tightest Ship in the Shipping business my ASS. They lost one of the parcels - 3 stocks and a few magpulls. No word since the 17th... The one I sent to me shoudl be here tomorrow *shipped the 15th - yeah 7 days my Ass. My buddy took one back in his luggage (well his wifes but who's counting). Should be able to do some shooting soon. Can't wait...
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 8:24:15 PM EDT
Rich - a rubber butpad like the Crane stock might be good too MAGPULL ROCKS [headbang]
Link Posted: 2/27/2003 11:58:23 PM EDT
[img]http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid53/p3b0c17a91e8a478d4a3a4499627861dd/fc92c173.jpg[/img] The stock went over well at the last [url=http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=10&t=167617]FDCC shoot[/url]. Raised a lot of eye brows and drew a lot of questions. It was my first time out shooting with it. It is as solid as it seems. Folks are right though. The retaining buttons are hard to work. Too small and stiff. I've had trouble using them to show others how it works and it makes me look dumber than usual! Opening and closing the stock is becoming much easier. I dont think it's so much that it was ever hard, just different than what we're used to. I can see the little tabs breaking, they do appear to be made of pretty fragile stuff. The set of parts that lock the buffer tube on to the receiver bugs me a little. Just seems like small parts and small parts scare me. To be truthful, because you can use so many different stocks with just the one buffer tube, I suppose I really dont see a need to ever have to bother with them, but if there was a way to make it a single piece, I think that would be a good idea. If not, and if thats what it takes to have it as strong and solid as it seems, no complaints here. Anything that can be lighter while remaining reasonably tough and rugged is GREAT! GREAT! GREAT! While I still want and prefer black, it was good to see you experimenting with olive and tan at the shot show. I'm sure that will be a plus for some. I really, really like this thing. I will get a crane stock when it's released, but I dont see how I could prefer it to the MSS. The crane seems to be the same old thing in a slightly different package with a different shape. It may be an improvement over what we see now, but the MSS is a completely new, and novel system. From one end to the other, it is taking a new approach to what a stock can be and what you can make it do. Looking forward to more options and improvements!
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 1:22:13 AM EDT
Lighter isn't always better. Sometimes it is better to have a properly balanced (heavier) rifle then a unbalanced lighter one. I don't have that big of an issue opening the stock to my preset, but closing can be tricky. Pulling back on the release, and pushing forward is aquard. Obviously, this isn't a critical function that requires speed. I've found pulling the stock into my shoulder while pressing the release to be the easiest. I don't know how the issue could be resolved. The butt plate is definately too aggressive for anyone not using body armour. I'd welcome a rubber butt plate. Not a cheap slip on one, but something made for this stock. I've done some hiking with my AR (as usual) with this stock attatched. I like the balance of the unit. I've compared the crane to the MSS M93, and it's no contest. Newarguy, that picture is BAD ASS! -Steve
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 2:36:01 AM EDT
[:O] Anyone have pics of the olive and tan stocks?
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 4:47:10 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2003 4:48:58 AM EDT by Lancelot]
Originally Posted By USMC03: I did a test and eval with Rich Fitzpatrick (CEO of Magpul corp) and was impressed.... I'll be doing a review shortly...I'm in the process of moving so it will be a couple weeks before I get the review done...it will also have a lot of pics... BTW does anyone have the link to the old review that I did last year?
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Yes. Its on the Colorado site where its always been. [lol] Let me know when to post the new pics! [url]http://groups.msn.com/ColoradoAR15ShootersSite/magpulmss.msnw[/url]
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 1:40:08 PM EDT
Neil, that set up is so cool looking it makes me wanna get a TA31 instead of a TA11 and sell my FF RAS to buy a SIR. The only thing I notice is you have to hold your head up and your cheek is not solidly squished into the stock like I prefer. I wish the rails on the SIR were lower or that there was a mount which could reduce the height of the ACOG. That just looks your not getting the full benefit of the cheek weld the M93 offers. Have you tried a TA31 mounted directly to the reciever before? Do you like that better?
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 10:00:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 2/28/2003 10:01:45 PM EDT by Magpul]
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 10:24:46 PM EDT
The Bi-level SIR wont change how an ACOG mounts, but the RAS II would. And yeah, that URX looks awesome. I WILL have one when ever it becomes available. But man, "Knights" and "availability" are hard to say in the same sentence! [cuss] Rich, Im glad you were able to score a M900 from Surefire and was happy to loan you mine for a couple days. They are great. Things about the stock are getting more and more simple for me as I use it. I think this has a lot to do with relearning motor skills like you mention. None of us have ever had something quite like this before and it does take a little getting used to. When you've done someting the same way a gazillion times, like opening and closing the retractable stock, and then you have to do it in a new way, it may seem hard or difficult. I dont really think it is hard or difficult, I just think it is different from what we're used to. And like I said earlier, it appears like these differences are necessary to achieve some of the advantages. There's no denying the MSS is WAY more rigid than any of the others. And it seems to me that having to lock it into place with that extra little push on the lever is at least one of several things that help make this so. If that is in fact the case, I will eagerly re-learn to press then push the lever instead of just pressing as I am so used to.
Link Posted: 2/28/2003 11:27:56 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/3/2003 2:37:27 PM EDT by Skammy]
[wow] [hail2] Rich if there is enough interest in getting the MSS in different colors think we could have a choice of a color at the production run? [:D]
Link Posted: 3/1/2003 12:00:43 AM EDT
I think it would be nearly impossible to depress both capture buttons to remove the stock by accident. It is one of the complaints along with the shim and raw hands after installing that is pretty much universal. Most all of us find it painfull to remove the stock. I dread having to do it to show friends. Id pay for a metal preset stop in a heartbeat. Is the rubber buttplate going to be a rubber coated steel strike plate or will it be something else entirely? I am not for making the stock less aggresive in the base. It hurts less than my Bushmaster A2 stock. I also think this stock is WAY faster and easier to use than the old style collapsable stocks. I leave it closed and unlocked. Yank on the tail with my support hand while hold ing the pistol grip in the other hand to get it open to the preset. Flip the lever forward with the support hand and I am done. I close it by pulling the rifle into my chest with the butt plate on my pec and holding the pistol grip. I use my support hand to work the lever with two fingers, my index finger on the small lever and the middle finger on the rest of the latch. Adjusting to other presets is a bit more akward but thats mostly because the stock is tight/sticky. Going past the preset is a painful use of the thumb and middle finger pinching the presets and hoping they close enough (which they never do on the first try) to clear while using the middle finger to pull the main lever and pull the whole unit out. It usually take 2 to 3 attempts to get this to work and its always painful. Also like someone else said in the other thread I can't see it being done with gloves on. So the final unit will: Have proper shims Have flashing removed Be tumbled to remove shine/sharp edges Strike plate/rubber foot plate available Reinforced latch mechanism to handle pounding Be smoother/less sticky Lock and Unlock indicators work properly Tail unit made of same material as rest of unit Lighter tube Quick attachment of the tail unit Is that right? The only other things I could hope for are: Easier to use capture buttons Metal preset detent Main latch not touch your hand in P Zero If all that happens when the production unit is released I would have to say that this stock would be 100% perfect. I still wonder what P8 and P9 positions are for...
Link Posted: 3/1/2003 6:44:21 PM EDT
Probably to late to think about but is some place to stash some batteries completely out?
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 1:24:16 AM EDT
That will be included as an add on.
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 2:20:24 AM EDT
Originally Posted By KevinB: Well I am still awaiting UPS to deliver the stocks we got at SHOT [furious].
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Hey Kevin, I already mounted and shoot mine !![nana] It's really outstanding , the rubber but plate'd be a good addiction , the rails do not hurt at all,neither the left one closer to the shooter's face , anyway it's always possible to cover them. Love all its features,I'm sure it'll be almost impossible to have a better stock. Rick, when you think 'll be possible to have the accessories , as the batteries containers , for the rails ?.....with the M900A ,M552 and PEQ2A mounted I really'd appreciate to have spare batteries carried on my M4 PP out
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 6:33:40 PM EDT
PP, Well I arrived right to base some UPS driver was in the unit foyer - and asked my (conviently) Lt if he knew a Kevin B - so the LT picked up the parcel and brought it too me (he did not get lost either [;D]) so here are some pics... [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=8094[/img] [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=8098[/img] and some of the yoyo's :) [img]http://photos.ar15.com/ImageGallery/IG_LoadImage.asp?iImageUnq=8101[/img]
Link Posted: 3/2/2003 6:43:51 PM EDT
Furthermore I have to add this is the most solid telestock ever. You could not tell it was not a fixed stock.
Link Posted: 3/3/2003 2:38:52 AM EDT
Kevin, glad you got it [:)] , nice pics PP out
Link Posted: 3/3/2003 6:46:47 AM EDT
PP, Yes I am very glad - now I just need to track down the three that UPS has misplaced... Or have new-arguy report on any new shooter showing up with them in some Fla. shoots. A couple of our guys going to Dubia want to add them to their weapons...
Link Posted: 3/3/2003 7:47:16 AM EDT
I'm sure some one from our shoots works for UPS! Hahaha. If anyone does show up with them, he will have about 30 other very well armed shooters to answer to [;)]. Granted, none of them will have as nice a stock as he will (except me), but I'm pretty sure we'd get it back with out a struggle! Hahaha! Maybe if we find the stocks the guy who stole them will hold them for ransome. If he does, offer that Elcan in exchange!!!! UPS lost that very rifle in my picture when I first bought it. It was missing for 5 days. That was 3 1/2 years ago. When I got it, it was in need of cleaning. To this day I swear someone from UPS took it out shooting, repacked it and then delivered. I'm vacaationing in Puerto Rico right now, and I miss my rifle. Especially with its new stock. [>(]
Link Posted: 3/6/2003 5:43:34 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/6/2003 5:46:10 PM EDT by specopsscout]
[green][b][i]Hey Rich, I know I'm probably beating a dead horse[beathorse], but any more though on a variant for the AR10s? The original reason that you stated you couldn't make the stock was due to it's being built on a carbine platform. Apparently, there is a big push for a carbine version by both Knight and Armalite. It has been mentioned as a possible military contract, without mentioning the end user. The newest Armalite catalog is listing an [/green][red]M4 variant of the AR10[/red][jump].[green] There has also been information on a LEO collapsable stock coming down the pipe. So, if and when Armalite makes the carbine available, you'll have access to the carbine buffer assembly. Will you be able to manufacture a version for the AR10 at that time? I really want one of them there Tactical Shooting Stocks for my AR10T[headbang]. Thanks for your time and attention in this matter. [marines] Respectfully, Harry[/i][/b][/green]
Link Posted: 3/6/2003 8:52:33 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2003 8:55:55 PM EDT
The SR25k has two springs that work within each other. The hardest part is to get the springs and buffer. AR-10 uses a standard buffer, don't they? I know the spring is stiffer. LS
Link Posted: 3/6/2003 9:17:29 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/6/2003 10:21:03 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: I'm vacaationing in Puerto Rico right now, and I miss my rifle. Especially with its new stock. [>(]
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Alright guys...you think the AR is an addiction? Here's a guy on vacation that can't pull himself from AR15.com! I think these damn forums are more of an addiction than the rifles. The rifles just serve as something to take pictures of and show off when the opportunity presents itself. I'm not convinced that some of you even have jobs (new-arguy...kevinb) [:D] Drivie
Link Posted: 3/7/2003 12:48:44 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/7/2003 12:51:24 AM EDT by specopsscout]
Hey Everyone, Thanks for the replies. I had planned on purchasing one for my Bushy Varminter, but when it went the way of the dodo, in exchange for the AR10T...I really wanted one! I'm glad to see it's still in the works. I never said patience is one of MY virtues [:D]...[spank] Just so I understand it, the spring is the issue? Could I buy the TSS, then a selection of springs from somebody like Wolff, or would I better better off just waiting for the Armalite stock, and buying thiers? [marines] Respectfully, Harry
Link Posted: 3/7/2003 6:40:36 AM EDT
Hey man, I actually have two jobs and work about 60+ hours a week. One of the reasons I am enjoying this vacaation so much... even without my guns! There's a TON of beautiful women around here though, it's almost enough to make me forget them for a minute. I dont think the 21st century has hit this islands gun industry yet. At least not that I have seen.
Link Posted: 3/7/2003 6:43:35 AM EDT
Well...you shouldn't be in here, you should be out wooin' the women! Get out there and cop a feel for AR15.com! Drivie
Link Posted: 3/7/2003 7:15:50 PM EDT
Neil, Thanks have a good vacation- Stocks are still AWOL They apparently dissappeared in Orlando at the local UPS pickup office - I dropped them off at the Kinko's at ht econvnetion centre and UPS picked them up (two days later?). Worse yet the two that made it went to other guys (two of my buddies) ARGHHH!!!!!!!!!!!! I work - honest - I taught a cold weather operations class today, and played sports for the rest of the afternoon (we played a game that has been affectionately called MEGABALL - involving a 6' high ball and no real rules - surprisingly no one went to base hospital today - but it s the most intense cardio workout outside pool workouts)
Link Posted: 3/8/2003 12:33:22 AM EDT
Rich, Regarding the cheek weld accessories: any chance that these might also have Li battery compartments, a la the Vltor ModStock?
Link Posted: 3/8/2003 8:09:01 AM EDT
KevinB and New-Arguy, I was just making light of the fact that you two seem to be on here so much and are involved in so many conversations it seems as if that's your job...hehe! Drivie
Link Posted: 3/9/2003 7:05:09 AM EDT
I've had two range sessions with the new stock. I love it. The installation was a drag though. Spent an hour sanding the shims to fit. Needless to say I'm not sure I have any fingerprints left, Not necessarily a bad thing. The balance of the weapon is definitely improved. Feel and cheek weld is outstanding. And I have to admit I had no trouble adjusting the locking lever, even with winter gloves on. I'm all for additions to the shim kit!!!! And we need the sling attachments ASAP. But over all I'm very pleased. Great job Rich. John
Link Posted: 3/9/2003 8:18:25 AM EDT
I must have been the only lucky one.. fit together like a dream. [:D]
Link Posted: 3/9/2003 8:39:28 AM EDT
Yes. Its on the Colorado site where its always been. [lol] Let me know when to post the new pics! [url]http://groups.msn.com/ColoradoAR15ShootersSite/magpulmss.msnw[/url]
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Lancelot, Thanks, I forgot about that being on your site....Hopefully next Friday I'll be able to set down and do the review....I've spent my whole vacation getting up at 6am and working straight through until 9pm....But it looks like we are finally moved in for the most part...I've got to go out and bust through some shale today so I can put up a mail box...What fun... As soon as the review is done I'll send it your way and we go through the pics and add the best ones to the review...I have been so busy I still haven't been able to look through them yet.... Rich Fitz, How have things been going...Looks like you got back from the SHOT SHOW in one piece....Take care guys talk to both of you soon...
Link Posted: 3/9/2003 10:29:54 PM EDT
Link Posted: 3/9/2003 10:38:30 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 3/9/2003 10:45:02 PM EDT by PincoPalla]
Originally Posted By Magpul: Pinco Palla has two (yes 2) rails mounted on his. What for? Well I am waiting for photos too. Now for a question/survey what batteries and how many do you normally carry?
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Hi Rick, right, I have two rails mounted,the left side rail has a KAC QD sling attachment mounted on , the right side rail is there waiting for your batteries container. BTW,you remember you warned me at the SS about possible face hurting from the left side rail ? Well,that left side rail does not hurt my face at all , so it's OK there. Talking abt MSS accessories ,I'd like to have a container for 2 spare 123 for my M900A and 2 or 4 spare AA for my M552 & PEQ-2A . I'll try to post some pics of my MSS ASAP, Ciao PP out
Link Posted: 3/9/2003 10:42:01 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Magpul: Ok we are making the final changes to the molds from the feedback we got from those testing the stock.....
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Rick, just to let you know my mates are going crazy "playing" with my M4 MSS outfitted , it'd be nice if you could let me know the price for a first shipment of 4 MSS , and a second possible shipment for 80/90 MSS , your stock R O C K S indeed ! PP out
Link Posted: 3/10/2003 5:46:51 AM EDT
Rick, one more photo from inside. The stock has been tested at around -30F. Big improvement form the factory tube. Especially when the eyes are watering from the cold and tears are hitting the stock and freezing at the same time. [img]http://www3.telus.net/hansonk/109-0928_IMG.JPG[/img] Just wondering when the m203 ammo holder will be ready?? Brad
Link Posted: 3/10/2003 6:09:48 AM EDT
Rich, please be sure that the battery compartments hold no less than three 123a lithium batteries. Most lights people put on these rigs use 3 cell lights like the Surefire M900 or M96xx/M97xx series Surefire lights. All of these lights use three 123a lithium batteries. Making a carrier that held 4 batteries would be good, but more than 2 would be crucial. If you had a 4 cell carrier, maybe making a light weight dud battery for those people who only wanted to carry three? You probably already thought of this, but... 123a lithiums are a little thicker than AA's. However, two AA's are nearly exactly the same length as three 123a lithium batteries. Maybe if you made a single tube that was wide enough and long enough for three 123a lithiums, you could make a thin insert people could slide into the tube making it the right diameter to hold two AA's for those who wanted AA's. This would ave you the trouble of having to make two seperate size containers. Just a couple ideas... Oh yeah, please make it water proof! Water and batteries dont mix. [;)]
Link Posted: 3/10/2003 11:34:26 AM EDT
Rich, since the battery compartments are the main feature of the latest stock design, would you consider to add those by using the mount rail on your MSS? Do you still have any Experimental version left?
Link Posted: 3/10/2003 11:51:48 AM EDT
Any possibility that I can put this stock on a postban weapon legally???
Link Posted: 3/10/2003 5:02:25 PM EDT
I think PP and new-arguy hit it right on, one double tube, one side for 3 123a's and the other for 2 AA's or even 4 as PP mentioned.
Link Posted: 3/10/2003 6:11:15 PM EDT
Originally Posted By new-arguy: Rich, please be sure that the battery compartments hold no less than three 123a lithium batteries. Most lights people put on these rigs use 3 cell lights like the Surefire M900 or M96xx/M97xx series Surefire lights. All of these lights use three 123a lithium batteries. Making a carrier that held 4 batteries would be good, but more than 2 would be crucial. If you had a 4 cell carrier, maybe making a light weight dud battery for those people who only wanted to carry three? You probably already thought of this, but... 123a lithiums are a little thicker than AA's. However, two AA's are nearly exactly the same length as three 123a lithium batteries. Maybe if you made a single tube that was wide enough and long enough for three 123a lithiums, you could make a thin insert people could slide into the tube making it the right diameter to hold two AA's for those who wanted AA's. This would ave you the trouble of having to make two seperate size containers. Just a couple ideas... Oh yeah, please make it water proof! Water and batteries dont mix. [;)]
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I totally agree with the above, this would suit my needs.
Link Posted: 3/10/2003 11:41:14 PM EDT
Maybe better yet, make dual-function, triangular cheek-weld side attachments that can hold 3 Li batteries in an internal, H20-proof compartment (similar to the new Vltor stock concept).
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