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Posted: 11/13/2002 5:36:53 PM EDT
These two brakes are of interest to me, as I have truly grown to dislike the Mini-Y comp causing a major explosion off the end of my M-4 type Bushy each time it fires.

I am going to send my upper to KKF in a couple of months (once the silly season ends), but I am still trying to decide which brake to install: the A3 or the Limiter. I understand how the Mini-Y arrests muzzle jump, and how the KKF A3 is supposed to, but I do not understand how the "Limiter" or the similar LeVang compensators act as brakes. It seems that because the vents face out of the end of the barrel, the percieved recoil would be the same as an uncompensated barrel, not less. Does anyone have any experience with either of these brakes, can you tell me if they DO work, and if so, HOW?
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 6:10:11 PM EDT
I too am interested in seeing peoples experience with various compensators. My exposure has been to the RRA LE comp (loud), JP comp (painfully loud), mini y comp (loud) AK style comp (loud). I have not seen or used the KKF comps. I'd like to see opinions on the miculek, R3E2C MUZZLE BRAKE available at brownells and the kkf's.

My suspicion is that if your looking for a compensator to decrease noise your barking up the wrong tree. Compensators are re-directing gasses for the purpose of control over the weapon, reduction in recoil, higher second shot hit probability, etc. This necessitates re-directing the gasses SOMEWHERE other than straight out the barrel, or uncompensated. Compensated guns are just loud.

The Yuckman
Link Posted: 11/13/2002 9:26:39 PM EDT
That was the gist of my question. This compensator:

www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/catalog/item/29585/23436.htm

claims to reduce muzzle jump , even though it DOES direct the gas through vents FORWARD, as shown here:

www.kurtskustomfirearms.citymax.com/albums/album_image/42611/31098.htm

According to the literature on the page this brake has the (obvious) effect of greatly reducing the noise and blast effect by directing it away from the firer. I am curious HOW it controls muzzle jump.

Keep in mind, I am not questioning the quality and utility of the KKF products, and I am personally very interested in this brake, I am merely curious how it works.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 5:44:30 AM EDT
Hey guys,

I think I can help with the Levang questions....A guy that heads our local IDPA here (also visits this board "TomJ") first modified the LeVang comp to make it look like a fake A3 style brake and put it on his AR...I tried out his AR at an IDPA match and he ended up doing a couple for me an put them on a couple of my ARs....

I remember a thread where a guy had pics of my barrel with the LeVang installed and asked Kurt if he could do the same thing...I believe that this is where the idea for the Limiter came about...

I have no experience with the Limiter, but Kurt always seems to build a better mouse trap....

As far as the LeVang goes, it does nothing for muzzle rise or felt recoil, what it does do is pushes the sound away from the shooter and doesn't annoy the shooter to your right and left...the AR family of weapons doesn't have a lot of felt recoil or muzzle rise...so I felt the LeVang was worth the trade off...


Hope this helps


Link Posted: 11/14/2002 8:24:55 AM EDT
DTA-MIL brakes had the same ports on the face of the brake,mine(dta-mil brake) works great and is not loud at all.
i have tested it for flash supression and found it does redirect flash,but does not suppress it.
dta-mil brakes are not post ban legal.
josam
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 8:34:55 AM EDT
Thank you, USMC03, that is exactly the information I was looking for.

The DTA-MIL seems interesting, joseph_samuel, but I am afraid my carbine is post-ban (until 9/04, anyway have
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 10:01:33 AM EDT
I would really like to see the effectiveness of this new Limiter brake I before I make the decision. (A3 vs Limiter)

Limiter already looks cool, so cosmetic isn't a problem. Gas and all the noise should be spread all the way forwards just like A2 bird cage. I don't care about flash as long as it is better than bare muzzle. But I don't know how it would work to reduce muzzle climb. If it does reduce a bit (25~33% that of mini-Y comp) I would definetely buy it!
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 12:47:40 PM EDT
Man, this would be to long for a 20" barrel, I think.

I wonder if Kurt could design a smaller one for a 20"?

Hmmm....
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 1:06:09 PM EDT
GunSlingAR,

Check the Kurt's Kustom Board over on the Industry Board...I started a thread a couple weeks ago asking about the effectiveness of the A3 brake and "Forest" gave a pretty good range report on the A3 brake...I just got my Dissipator back with the A3 brake and plan on shooting it this weekend...

From what most have said the A3 brake does a good job a reducing muzzle flip, but is not as loud as the AK and mini Y-COMP brakes

Link Posted: 11/14/2002 4:02:01 PM EDT
Found it, thanks for the heads up. Good data.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 8:37:17 PM EDT
I have a JP brake and when I'm shooting it, it's not that loud. The people next to me hate me though. One time, my friend was shooting my rifle and I was standing right next to the rifle instead of behind it and it was painfully lound. It wasn't just the noise, but you could actually feel the blast. It had an almost concussive effect. I have an A3 brake and I don't think it's that loud. It doesn't direct the blast directly to the side like the JP so it's probably not as loud to the other shooters at the range.
Link Posted: 11/14/2002 8:43:22 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11/14/2002 8:55:47 PM EDT by TNRonin]
I'm the guy KKF did the Lavang for recently. I took the gun out into limited visibility conditions (dark) to include a misty rain. While shooting it I noticed that there was some muzzle rise, BUT, I was able to control it enough to do double taps on a paint can at 25yds reliably. I would roll the can up the hillside, and then push it up some more or stop it.

Regarding the job KKF did, upon inspection I could see that the park job could have been done a little better and on the bottom where he did the pin job, there is not a complete fill. Should I send it back? Yepper, will I get it back any time soon? Doubtful. It is functional and that is what really matters, this ain't a range queen.

Flash supperession? I think so. I stood off to the side to watch a friend shoot it. This is mounted on an M4gery from BM. My perception was that the flash is directed into a cone shape approximately 5-6" in front of the muzzle, about the size of a tennis ball. The flash converges upon itself, disappears for about 4", then reappears for about the size of a golf ball. I was pretty happy with that. Side concussion was not anything like it was preveiously. I'm very happy with the performance and look of this "comp", if you can call it that.

I'll put my .02 regarding the limiter, it just looks like you would get a fireball with that thing. The angles would do more to spread out unburned powder enabling more air to get to it to promote ignition.

USMC03 is the main force behind my doing mine. He was happy with his. I was going to pay TomJ to do mine but he never returned emails or anything. I sat on the Lavang for about 1.5 months and needed to get it done sooner or later. HTH

Edited to add images:
Mine
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