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Posted: 10/6/2002 2:01:37 AM EDT
Gentlemen,

I'd like to ask about the Rock River Arms uppers. What makes them cheaper than others? The upper halves even come complete with bolt. For example Bushmaster uppers cost around $550 without bolt and RRAs' cost $425 complete. Where's the catch? I'm definately going to buy a RRA upper next instead of Bushy but is there something I should be aware of?

Regards,
Petri
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 3:44:20 AM EDT
bushmaster is a littel high on price, but you can't beat their quality.
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 4:02:48 AM EDT
Bushmaster is a little high on price and there are other manufacturers that are as good or better; RRA is as good or better.
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 4:31:12 AM EDT
Just bought a RRA 16" carbine flat top for $624 on gunbroker!

I wanted to go ahead and get one before the onslaught because of the MD shooter.

I also have a bushmaster vmatch so we will have to see how they compare.
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 6:09:47 AM EDT
If you are talking about just a complete upper, I think the difference may be in the barrels. If you look at their prices for just upper receiver parts, they are almost the same (within a few dollars).

BM does offers chrome-lined barrels by default and RRA does not.

Which is better? Someone else will have to answer that one...
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 7:53:06 AM EDT
>>Just bought a RRA 16" carbine flat top for $624 on gunbroker!<<

Heck of a deal!!

>>I wanted to go ahead and get one before the onslaught because of the MD shooter.<<

What onslaught would that be?? I guess you are assuming that this looser that is whacking people out east has an AR-type, because it couldnt possibly be a Rem 700, Win 70, Sav 10,
Howa, Browning, A-Bolt, Ruger Mini-14, Daewoo, AK in .223....i could go in and on.

As far as the RRA products, i have one enroute and picked it for both quality and price.
I liked what i saw when i looked a them and their price and quality combo can't be beat.

Kyarguy
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 2:51:58 PM EDT
I still can't bring myself to own an RRA product after they manufactured all of those out of spec flat top uppers and then tried to claim that the spec was changing. Liars!
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 5:14:23 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TheFlyingFinn:
For example Bushmaster uppers cost around $550 without bolt and RRAs' cost $425 complete.

bushmasters are more expensive, but not that much. nearly all of their uppers excluding V-match and Varminter cost $395 without Bolt/etc. Complete they are $535. as far as quality i'm not sure but since RRA uppers don't fit Cavalry Arms lowers (which i have a few of) i'm stuck with bushmaster (no loss there!)
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 5:25:50 PM EDT

Originally Posted By innocent_bystander:
I still can't bring myself to own an RRA product after they manufactured all of those out of spec flat top uppers and then tried to claim that the spec was changing. Liars!



I purchased one of those out of spec flat top upper receivers, got it home and read the low down on here so I quickly checked it with my ARMS #19ACOG mount and sure enough it was out of spec.

My dealer normally stocks bushmaster parts, but this was on the shelf and bushmaster parts were a week or two out. I trotted that thing right back down there and returned it.

I don't hold a grudge against RRA, but I only buy bushmaster parts these days just to be sure.

Ryan
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 5:31:40 PM EDT
TheFlyingFinn,

Did you ever get my Email?
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 7:16:57 PM EDT
THIS POLL IS A BUNCH OF SHIT!!!
LIKE ARMALITE IS 4TH PLACE!!,THAT'S WHY NO ARMALITE RIFLES ARE ANY SHOPS BY ME ,LOTS OF BUSHMASTERS...
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 10:57:04 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2002 7:01:09 AM EDT by Calvert1]

Originally Posted By akshin:
as far as quality i'm not sure but since RRA uppers don't fit Cavalry Arms lowers (which i have a few of) i'm stuck with bushmaster (no loss there!)



That's odd. My RRA M4 upper fits my CavArms lower just fine. What problems do you have with the fit on yours?

[ edited to fix quote ]
Link Posted: 10/6/2002 11:57:42 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/6/2002 11:58:21 PM EDT by m60308nato]
bushmaster also get's my parts shipped to me in 4 days or less, If your having a barrel fluted it can take longer.
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 3:19:59 AM EDT
Calvert,

You accidentaly quoted the wrong person. That line was posted by someone else

Regards,
Petri
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 4:22:10 AM EDT

Originally Posted By Kyarguy:
>>Just bought a RRA 16" carbine flat top for $624 on gunbroker!<<

Heck of a deal!!

>>I wanted to go ahead and get one before the onslaught because of the MD shooter.<<

What onslaught would that be?? I guess you are assuming that this looser that is whacking people out east has an AR-type, because it couldnt possibly be a Rem 700, Win 70, Sav 10,
Howa, Browning, A-Bolt, Ruger Mini-14, Daewoo, AK in .223....i could go in and on.

yes, i was making that assumption. sorry for lack of detail.
As far as the RRA products, i have one enroute and picked it for both quality and price.
I liked what i saw when i looked a them and their price and quality combo can't be beat.

Kyarguy

Link Posted: 10/7/2002 4:37:41 AM EDT
WHAT'S THE DEAL ON CAV ARMS,I HAVE HEARD,BAD,AND REAL GOOD,,WHICH IS IT???I HAVEN'T EVEN HELD 1.
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 4:37:43 AM EDT
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 4:37:45 AM EDT

Originally Posted By tooly:
THIS POLL IS A BUNCH OF SHIT!!!
LIKE ARMALITE IS 4TH PLACE!!,THAT'S WHY NO ARMALITE RIFLES ARE ANY SHOPS BY ME ,LOTS OF BUSHMASTERS...



Bushmaster MAKES a lot more guns than Armalite.

Armalite limits the supply to keep the prices up.

Nice gun, but there are reasons why your shops don't carry them.
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 4:45:26 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m60308nato:
bushmaster is a littel high on price, but you can't beat their quality.



have YOU driven a RRA lately? THey kick the living tar out of the ABC's!!!
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 4:58:06 AM EDT
I haven't seen a Bushmaster upper going for $550, in their own catalog they're $535, and there are dealers on this board that sell them complete w/ B/C/CH for $475.
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 5:23:54 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/7/2002 5:26:20 AM EDT by M4A2_L073754]
I´m tending to be Rock River fan at the moment but I´m still Bushmaster fan as well.

I think that Bushmaster bite too big piece of cake at this time. When this AR15 craze took over they should have bought one or two more CNC machines to make more uppers and lowers as well as barrels and should have hire more people to assemble and QC.

just my 02 cents.

www.printroom.com/_vti_bin/ViewImage.dll?userid=300whisper&album_id=103514&image_id=1&courtesy=1
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 7:49:29 AM EDT
I am a Bushmaster fan, but it is not for some silly fanatical reason. I think it is purely because Bushmasdter continues to be the only manufacturer to offer a wide variety of guns, including lightweight barrel options, all made with standard size parts and pins, along with barrels made with milspec 4150 steel, with milspec 5.56 chambers and chrome lining in the chamber and bore. All other manufactueres offer some of the above, but Bushmaster is the only one to offer all of the above. If another company were to start offering the same, I would esily become just as large a fan of them. It just hasnt happened yet... and I often wonder why?
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 8:03:24 AM EDT
It appears RRA is not as greedy as the others. The parts themselves can be made to milspec at a very low cost to the vendor. The labor is considered a constant among all the manufacturers, so the only variable would likely be profit (or overhead). Or a combination of both being lower.

RRA is gearing up to offer all the same stuff as Bushie and Armalite etc, but honestly. I kinda like the price where it is without the milspec goodies. I am not a high volume shooter so the steel barrel is fine with me, it's tending to be more accurate than a similar chrome lined barrel.

Ed
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 8:19:02 AM EDT
Paid $ 750 for my bushmaster brand new great quality no complaints.
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 2:16:35 PM EDT
RRA DOES offer chrome LINED barrels now, talk to Sableco for details
Link Posted: 10/7/2002 3:35:03 PM EDT

Originally Posted By fight4yourrights:

Originally Posted By tooly:
THIS POLL IS A BUNCH OF SHIT!!!
LIKE ARMALITE IS 4TH PLACE!!,THAT'S WHY NO ARMALITE RIFLES ARE ANY SHOPS BY ME ,LOTS OF BUSHMASTERS...



Bushmaster MAKES a lot more guns than Armalite.

Armalite limits the supply to keep the prices up.

Nice gun, but there are reasons why your shops don't carry them.



Bushmaster makes more rifles,yes but sends out ANYTHING...

limited supply,yes it's called QUALITY control!!!

PLEASE tell what are the reasons shops don't carry ARMALITES!!!
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 9:26:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/8/2002 9:36:43 AM EDT by m60308nato]

Originally Posted By Pete-in-NH:
Rock River Does Have Chrome lined Post and preban M-4 Barrels and the FT upper have been
in perfect Mil Spec for a long time now.



There are no mil-spec's on AR15 civilian parts. It's to the latest m16A2 rifle spec's or mil-spec. Mil-spec dosn't mean shit.

FN makes uppers for the military, they are not set up to sell them to the public. some of the uppers that are made are not mil-spec. so these uppers are sold as scrap metal. Then some jerkoff takes these uppers that are not made to mil-spec and sells them as mil-spec uppers for AR15's.

why do they get away with this? because there are NO milspec's for AR15 civilian rifle's. If you have an FN upper it was stolen, or it's not made to REAL mil-spec.
Link Posted: 10/8/2002 7:28:16 PM EDT
CALVERT1:

i have an Alexander Arms .21 Ghengis upper which uses an upper receiver by RRA...if i put it on a CavArms lower the bolt will severely bind in the retracted postion, so bad that it is difficult to get it to "close" and removing the upper is TOUGH after that....
ILoveToShoot (who works for CavArms) had the same problem and told me about it before my upper arrived...i am visiting Cavarms tomorrow and will take my upper and one of their lowers and see what they think about it....
i'd love to have that upper on one of their lowers...maybe they will make it fit
(ILoveToShoot simply swapped the RRA upper receiver with a DPMS one and has no problems...i just didnt' want the hassle so i put it on another (aluminum) lower.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 12:08:31 PM EDT
Funny, I dont see DPMS in your poll, any particular reason?

Everything I have bought from them has been top shelf, and as far as variety is concerned they certainly have a huge selection of uppers to chose from including a dedicated .22lr.

Their standard barrels are moly but they do have a lightweight FN 20" that is chromed and I believe CMMG was selling some M4 barrels that were a limited run with chrome lining.
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 2:33:47 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 10/9/2002 2:34:20 PM EDT by TheFlyingFinn]
JKH,

Yes. There is a good reason why DPMS is not included. The polls can only fit five options.

Regards,
Petri
Link Posted: 10/9/2002 6:41:46 PM EDT
How much more does RRA charge for the chrome lined barrel? Is it worth getting a crome lined barrel, and why? Pros and cons?

Thanks
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:02:30 AM EDT
The gun I just purchased was $677 and was made on mostly RRA parts. The parts are quality and look every bit as good as Bushy or Colt- just lower price. All the other guns I looked at- Armalite, Bushmaster, Colt- were quality looking as well. Just my opinion.

CRC
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:48:17 AM EDT

Originally Posted By m60308nato:
bushmaster is a littel high on price, but you can't beat their quality.



I don't want to start a war, just want to state the facts. Just got a RRA 16" carbine it's awesome!! I have owned two Colt Ar's and have shot Bushmasters products in the past and they are nice. But if you want a quality Ar at a good price, RRA is the way to go. I think Bushmaster better get on the ball if they want to stay in the game..
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 3:28:59 PM EDT
Whoa, what a hot topic. Kinda like the stickers of the little boy pissing on Ford/Chevy/Dodge or whatever on pick-ups these days. Should I start looking for the little boy to piss on Bushmaster/RRA/Colt etc next?
I have had 3 or 4 Colts, all pre-bans and currently still have one and a couple of Bushmasters. The Bushmasters I have are every bit as good, if not better, than the Colts I have and had. I saw a Bushmaster M4 with the fake rear stock etc and it looked terrible. The upper looked as though trash was on the metal before it went in the forge. Looked like little fossials or imperfections all over the finish off the upper, looked like shit. I went to remove the mag to safty check it and I had to pull the mag out, it was way the hell too tight. Tried the mag from a Colt next to it. The Colt mag poped right out of the Colt, but I had to pull it out of the Bushmaster, pos.

Like I said, the Bushmasters I have are every bit as good as the Colts. The Bushmaster in that shop didn't hold a candle to the Colt. You better look close, because they don't.

Bill

p.s. I'd definatly give RRA a try.
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:12:31 PM EDT
RRA
I have one and no complaints as far as manufactoring.

One thing. Myself and another guy I know specifically ordered chrome lined and they sent chrome moly. I don't know if this is on pupose because they are so back ordered from people taking advantage of their quality and price. Despite my satisfaction with my rifle, I won't order one again because I think they are dishonest.

By the way, my friend sent his back and got the chrome barrel. I ate the extra $40 I paid for chrome and didn't send mine back. I was pissed and lazy (a poor combination)

You have been warned
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 6:50:13 PM EDT
Sylvan, man, thats terrible. Between that story and the Rock River "new spec" for the rails/flat top story... I'm becoming pretty nervous!
Link Posted: 10/10/2002 11:41:39 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
One thing. Myself and another guy I know specifically ordered chrome lined and they sent chrome moly. I don't know if this is on pupose because they are so back ordered from people taking advantage of their quality and price. Despite my satisfaction with my rifle, I won't order one again because I think they are dishonest.

By the way, my friend sent his back and got the chrome barrel. I ate the extra $40 I paid for chrome and didn't send mine back. I was pissed and lazy (a poor combination)



Mistakes happen. Is it possible that RRA just made a mistake?

As long as the company stands behind their products, takes care of their customers, that is what we all want.

If you tried to send it back and they gave you grief, then you have a valid complaint. If they gave you a line on the phone, you have a valid complaint.

How about you give them a call and see what they say. That will be the acid test of their customer service.

Best of luck.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 7:31:33 AM EDT
Sylnan,
It should only have been $30 for the chrome, and they would have exchanged it for you without hesitation if it showed chrome on the order.
Give 'em a call.
Sluggo
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 5:57:25 PM EDT
I'v got a colt 16" HBAR, a RRA 20"HBAR, and an Armalite AR10A4. I love em all, to be honest the AR10 is slightly better maybe a( 1/4") better at 100 yards than either of the 15's. But I'd use any one of them with confidence if my ass was on the line.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 7:22:24 PM EDT
Reason I didn't send it back is I waited 2 months for that upper to arrive. I didn't want to eat shipping. I have fired a couple of hundred rounds through it without a hiccup and nice accuracy. I have only fired iron sights, so accuracy is relative. Its a great gun, just when two people have the same BS problem, makes me wonder.
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 8:18:02 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Sylvan:
RRA
I have one and no complaints as far as manufactoring.

One thing. Myself and another guy I know specifically ordered chrome lined and they sent chrome moly. I don't know if this is on pupose because they are so back ordered from people taking advantage of their quality and price. Despite my satisfaction with my rifle, I won't order one again because I think they are dishonest.

By the way, my friend sent his back and got the chrome barrel. I ate the extra $40 I paid for chrome and didn't send mine back. I was pissed and lazy (a poor combination)

You have been warned



Do they mark on the barrel anywhere to identify the chrome lined ones over the chrome moly?
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 8:47:56 PM EDT

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
Do they mark on the barrel anywhere to identify the chrome lined ones over the chrome moly?



No, they sure dont, but they sure need to!
Link Posted: 10/11/2002 8:52:10 PM EDT

Originally Posted By new-arguy:

Originally Posted By Lazyshooter:
Do they mark on the barrel anywhere to identify the chrome lined ones over the chrome moly?



No, they sure dont, but they sure need to!



How would I know the difference, just looking at a RRA barrel?
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